(12-04-2011 08:10 PM)wkuhilltopperfan Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 08:08 PM)HILTOPWKU Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 07:59 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 07:52 PM)HILTOPWKU Wrote:  FIU & Louisiana may have had better overall seasons, but we beat them both on the field.
I think someone needs to change some rules.

I've got to go ahead and disagree there, although believe me I feel your pain.

I have absolutely no problem with FIU and Louisiana getting the invites that they did. They had better overall resumes and the bowls are in thier backyards.

Had the situations been reversed... with WKU having a better record and the bowl was in say Birmingham or Memphis then wouldn't you prefer WKU to be picked in that situation?

What if Ark St had lost their last game. WKU would be tied for the
championship with the 2 bowl tie-ins gone. Does that make sense?

That's what happens when a bunch of clowns run a conference. Pathetic !

It's not the conference fault that you are #4 in the bowl pecking order. 10-2, 8-4 and 8-4 are better records plus your OC record was 0-4 with a bad home loss to an FCS team. Quit trying to blame the conference when the fault lies with the Toppers.

(12-04-2011 08:18 PM)MG61 Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 08:10 PM)wkuhilltopperfan Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 08:08 PM)HILTOPWKU Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 07:59 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 07:52 PM)HILTOPWKU Wrote:  FIU & Louisiana may have had better overall seasons, but we beat them both on the field.
I think someone needs to change some rules.

I've got to go ahead and disagree there, although believe me I feel your pain.

I have absolutely no problem with FIU and Louisiana getting the invites that they did. They had better overall resumes and the bowls are in thier backyards.

Had the situations been reversed... with WKU having a better record and the bowl was in say Birmingham or Memphis then wouldn't you prefer WKU to be picked in that situation?

What if Ark St had lost their last game. WKU would be tied for the
championship with the 2 bowl tie-ins gone. Does that make sense?

That's what happens when a bunch of clowns run a conference. Pathetic !

It's not the conference fault that you are #4 in the bowl pecking order. 10-2, 8-4 and 8-4 are better records plus your OC record was 0-4 with a bad home loss to an FCS team. Quit trying to blame the conference when the fault lies with the Toppers.

There will be changes made. Count on it.

The changes that need to be made are the tie ins. When the MAC has more tie ins than us, and take our secondary tie ins away, even for bowls based in the South, then something is really screwed up at the top. Luckily, Waters is gone soon, I can only hope his replacement isn't okay with being the lap dog of every other conference in existence.

(12-04-2011 08:11 PM)CajunT Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 08:01 PM)HILTOPWKU Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 07:54 PM)Geaux Cajuns Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 07:52 PM)HILTOPWKU Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 07:45 PM)troy4ever21 Wrote:  I feel for WKU. TROY sat at home with a win over Oklahoma State in 07 since we only had one guaranteed bowl back then.

It's true WKU finished second in the Belt, but Louisiana and FIU had better seasons. FIU finished 3-1 in OOC with some great wins. UL is right down the road from New Orleans and they had enormous turnouts for their games this season. So Louisiana was a perfect choice for the New Orleans Bowl. Whereas, WKU lost to FCS Indiana State and had lackluster crowd turnout despite their historical turnaround season. I'm a little pissed that WKU won't be bowling. Having 4 teams in bowls would have looked really good. At least the Sun Belt has progressed enough to have a second year with 3 teams in bowls.

I'm very proud of the progress the Sun Belt Conference has made these past few years. WKU fans should be proud that you had such a strong 2nd half of the season. You guys deserved a bowl game, but bowls take more into account that just 2nd place and 7 wins. Keep it up and you'll go bowling next year!

GO SUN BELT CONFERENCE!!!!!!

FIU & Louisiana may have had better overall seasons, but we beat them both on the field.
I think someone needs to change some rules.

Indiana St, hurt you guys and the conference big time.

The Sunbelt needs to do something about this. If a northern Sunbelt
team comes in second in the league, they are more than likely gonna
get screwed over again.

It's not the Sun Belt Conferences fault WKU lost to an FCS program and averaged under 16,000 a game in home attendance. Your Coach and fans have total control over both failures. That's on WKU!

If we had beaten Indiana St. and was 8-4. The scenario would still be exactly the same. If we averaged 20K and more than FIU, the scenario would be exactly the same.

The problem with not winning the league outright was ULL was going to NO Bowl no matter what. FIU would still go to St. Pete Bowl over us no matter what.

This year, it just happened to be the SBC had 4 Bowl eligible teams and all of the Bowl eligible teams had bowls in their own backyards and could guarantee attendance.

(12-04-2011 08:49 PM)CrushMI Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 08:11 PM)CajunT Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 08:01 PM)HILTOPWKU Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 07:54 PM)Geaux Cajuns Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 07:52 PM)HILTOPWKU Wrote:  FIU & Louisiana may have had better overall seasons, but we beat them both on the field.
I think someone needs to change some rules.

Indiana St, hurt you guys and the conference big time.

The Sunbelt needs to do something about this. If a northern Sunbelt
team comes in second in the league, they are more than likely gonna
get screwed over again.

It's not the Sun Belt Conferences fault WKU lost to an FCS program and averaged under 16,000 a game in home attendance. Your Coach and fans have total control over both failures. That's on WKU!

If we had beaten Indiana St. and was 8-4. The scenario would still be exactly the same. If we averaged 20K and more than FIU, the scenario would be exactly the same.

The problem with not winning the league outright was ULL was going to NO Bowl no matter what. FIU would still go to St. Pete Bowl over us no matter what.

This year, it just happened to be the SBC had 4 Bowl eligible teams and all of the Bowl eligible teams had bowls in their own backyards and could guarantee attendance.

Don't agree with that at all, based upon what? What we do know is that bowl committees look at attendance and season tickets sales. UL sold over 10,000 season tickets and averaged over 29,000 a game at home. The Cajuns also went 2-2 out of conference.

In FIU’s case, they have some established creditability based upon last years bowl. They also beat Louisville and Central Florida in their out of conference schedule.

We also know that WKU was 0-4 in out of conference games, including a loss to a FCS program. WKU averaged less then 16,000 per home game this season, which is also fact.

I don’t think anyone is happy with our current number of bowl tie-ins or Mr. Waters. But those are things the conference can address with a new commissioner. WKU fans and football program can address season ticket sales, attendance and losing to an FCS program. Those are things you guys can fix immediately and should before most objective people feel you have a reasonable case to be made in not getting a bowl invitation.

(12-04-2011 08:10 PM)wkuhilltopperfan Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 08:08 PM)HILTOPWKU Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 07:59 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 07:52 PM)HILTOPWKU Wrote:  FIU & Louisiana may have had better overall seasons, but we beat them both on the field.
I think someone needs to change some rules.

I've got to go ahead and disagree there, although believe me I feel your pain.

I have absolutely no problem with FIU and Louisiana getting the invites that they did. They had better overall resumes and the bowls are in thier backyards.

Had the situations been reversed... with WKU having a better record and the bowl was in say Birmingham or Memphis then wouldn't you prefer WKU to be picked in that situation?

What if Ark St had lost their last game. WKU would be tied for the
championship with the 2 bowl tie-ins gone. Does that make sense?

That's what happens when a bunch of clowns run a conference. Pathetic !

Try some personal accountability.

Sell some season tickets.
Put people in the seats.

If you want to be an atlarge selection to a bowl game, you have to show the bowls you bring something to the table.

More tie-ins would be great. And, as we continue to get four bowl-eligible teams each year, that will come. The number of tie-ins you get have nothing to do with who your commissioner is. It has everything to do with the average number of bowl-eligible teams you have in a five year period.

the MAC is running into the same scenario. They have teams get left home every year.

In the meantime, you have to show you are an attractive selection for a bowl.

You do that by building a resume of worthiness, whether that be through your record or your attendance figures.

Don't point fingers. Go and get better.

And, don't get me wrong. I was hoping WKU would get a bid. But I also knew they were number 4 in the pecking order as far as the bowls were concerned.

There were going to be two teams left out. And, there was no question it was going to be a MAC and an SBC school.

I'll have to look up the specifics, but there are NCAA rules regarding the number of tie-ins a conference may have. The conferences expanding to 14 will have to wait until their historical average of bowl-eligible teams catches up and allows them to sign an agreement to place their #10, #11, etc. teams.

(12-04-2011 07:51 PM)Geaux Cajuns Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 07:35 PM)bluephi1914 Wrote:  after finishing #2 in the SBC, then our conference has a fundamental issue and flaw that it must workout immediately. There is not reason why the #3 and #4 team in the SBC should go bowling before the #2 team. Especially when we have two guaranteed bowl spots.

Dude in 2005 the Cajuns won a share of the conference and Lafayette hosted the New Orleans bowl and got left out. You want to talk about a kick in the nads. Besides, the Cajuns have been bowl eligible 3 or 4 times out of the last 6 years and this is the first year we are actually in a bowl.

It is the life in the Sunbelt. We need more teams to win OOC games and better attendance across the board in order to secure more bowl tie-ins.

the only reason ya'll got left out is because ASU won the tiebreaker and had to be chosen. I'm sure if they got a choice, they would have taken ya'll. The way the bowls are set up, is the champ is the only one guaranteed a bowl. After that, it a choice by the bowl.

So if MT finished in the exact position and record as WKU, would they have gotten in a bowl over FIU, ULL, ASU or another at-large? I don't think so.

It just so happened this year that ULL had a great year and was a no-brainer for NO Bowl, ASU won the title, and FIU gets in a slot close to home.

I don't think the SBC get 4 bowl slots this year period....MAC had more bowl tie-ins.

(12-04-2011 08:49 PM)CrushMI Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 08:11 PM)CajunT Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 08:01 PM)HILTOPWKU Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 07:54 PM)Geaux Cajuns Wrote:  

(12-04-2011 07:52 PM)HILTOPWKU Wrote:  FIU & Louisiana may have had better overall seasons, but we beat them both on the field.
I think someone needs to change some rules.

Indiana St, hurt you guys and the conference big time.

The Sunbelt needs to do something about this. If a northern Sunbelt
team comes in second in the league, they are more than likely gonna
get screwed over again.

It's not the Sun Belt Conferences fault WKU lost to an FCS program and averaged under 16,000 a game in home attendance. Your Coach and fans have total control over both failures. That's on WKU!

If we had beaten Indiana St. and was 8-4. The scenario would still be exactly the same. If we averaged 20K and more than FIU, the scenario would be exactly the same.

The problem with not winning the league outright was ULL was going to NO Bowl no matter what. FIU would still go to St. Pete Bowl over us no matter what.

This year, it just happened to be the SBC had 4 Bowl eligible teams and all of the Bowl eligible teams had bowls in their own backyards and could guarantee attendance.

Man, you are just wrong. Plain and simple. First off - the Belt was only ALLOWED to sign two primary bowl agreements per NCAA rules. They go on the average of bowl eligible teams from the previous years. So even if Wright Waters had wanted to sign up for another bowl - it would not be allowed. So there are secondary agreements and MOU's. MOU's suck and don't hold up. Secondary agreements are ALSO regulated by the NCAA and the Belt has the ability to sign ONE. So when it came down to the teams (FIU and WKY) - the St Petersburg folks thought that FIU would bring more fans.

TCU turned their ship around with Franchione at the helm by buying 20K tickets to the Sun Bowl. They were barely bowl eligible and had been TERRIBLE for the years preceding. Their administration realized that they needed to get into a bowl game and make a statement - so they guaranteed 20K tickets to the game. WKY could have campaigned and bought its way into a game. They might have taken a loss on it - but they would have rewarded their team and "bet" on their future. These 3rd tier bowl games are essentially exhibition games to reward a good season. FIU got the shaft last year by getting stuck in Detroit on Christmas - they certainly have earned their way into a better bowl game this year. In FBS you earn your stripes many different ways, you can buy your way to the top or work within the system. Not sure if you could get 15K fans to a bowl just yet - it is difficult for you guys to get 15K to a home game. And I love Belt football brotha - just trying to help you see things from the non-red-tinted glasses.

Congrats on a fantastic season - there are many bowl games in your future, I know it.

I think the Sun Belt Conference will gain a 3rd auto-bid very soon. We have proven we deserve it both on the field and in attendence, so I expect it to happen. I'd like to get the Beef O' Brady Bowl as an auto, that would fit right in to our current needs. I do NOT want the BBVA, playing at Legion Field SUCKS and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

I understand how WKU fans are feeling right now, we were really 3rd pick for bowls last season after winning the conference. But like others have pointed out here, once a team goes over .500 other factors kick in for deciding bowl invites.

We learnt from last season, in addition to winning more games than last season, we knew we had to market the hell out of the program (sell more season tickets, get students and alumni more involved, Hilton for Heisman, ESPN, more visibility locally, months of lobbying regional bowls) to become more attractive and move up the pecking order.

As BoP pointed out, negotiating tie-ins are based on the number of bowl eligible teams we consistently produce, the best way to increase that number is by winning more OOC games.

Also, the MAC played the at-large slots smartly. They sent some of their stronger teams to the at-large games and protected the weaker ones like Western Michigan with automatic tie-ins.

Toledo - Military Bowl
Temple - New Mexico (MAC guaranteed this slot with secondary tie-in)

The thing that burns me is the MAC got 5 teams in bowls?! Are they that much better than the Sunbelt. I know WKU shot themselves in the foot with attendance, makes me mad, but our 15K is not that much different than some of those teams. Thought having the number one rusher in the country might get us a little help but oh well. Really sucks to miss out on the extra month of practice. I hope the team comes out with a chip on its shoulder next year. I also hope we change our scheduling and do away with the body bag games, does nothing for our record or perception.

(12-04-2011 10:13 PM)Agtopper Wrote:  I also hope we change our scheduling and do away with the body bag games, does nothing for our record or perception.

that's something we ALL need to do.

If we are ever going to beat UK then next year is it. They are looking like a real turd and we should have a pretty damn good team. We get Southern Miss at home, I am betting they return enough to be really good, so hopefully we can pull a miracle in that one. We should absolutely trounce Peay, I know we haven't had a good record vs FCS since leaving FCS, but I don't us losing to Peay. Bama will smoke us. I would be happy with 2-2 in OOC, tickled pink with 3-1, slightly miffed at 1-3, but the show would go on.

(12-04-2011 08:08 PM)HILTOPWKU Wrote:  What if Ark St had lost their last game. WKU would be tied for the
championship with the 2 bowl tie-ins gone. Does that make sense?

What if we had beaten Arkansas State? I'd be booking a hotel in Mobile right now.

Put it in basketball terms...

How many times has WKU had a great basketball season only to have some Sunbelt team get hot in conference play and take the conference's ONE auto bid? Are non conference games totally meaningless?

Personally, I think taking the whole season into consideration IS fair. I also think that bowl games have every right to pick the team that they think will give them thier best return.

Would I like a belt tie in for the Northern part of the conferece? YOU BET! But the Belt teams that got bids are all deserving and why take away from thier success? We had our chances this season and didn't get it done. Close but no cigar.

Wanted a bowl for Rainey but we have a young team and there is plenty to look forward to.

I hope the Tennessee Titans get Rainey. he'd be an amazing compliment to CJ2K.

It's absolutely unfair of our conference to give bowl invites out before the season plays out. To leave the No. 2 team at home is outrageous and unfair.

If the No. 2 team cannot be accommodated with one the two guaranteed bowls, the conference must assure that a third bowl is made available. Otherwise, the No. 3 team must sit home.

Troy was screwed. MTSU has been screwed. That was due to not having multiple bowl opportunities. Playing favorites to the closer teams, this year, screwed WKU, and that is solely the fault of the Sun Belt Conference leadership.

(12-04-2011 10:13 PM)Agtopper Wrote:  The thing that burns me is the MAC got 5 teams in bowls?! Are they that much better than the Sunbelt. I know WKU shot themselves in the foot with attendance, makes me mad, but our 15K is not that much different than some of those teams. Thought having the number one rusher in the country might get us a little help but oh well. Really sucks to miss out on the extra month of practice. I hope the team comes out with a chip on its shoulder next year. I also hope we change our scheduling and do away with the body bag games, does nothing for our record or perception.

the MAC has been around a lot longer than us. the have had their bowl contracs while NTSU was bowling with 5 wins. nobody wanted to touch our conference. Bowl execs slowly starting to come around though...