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Conference Shake up to continue
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #61
 
Quote:Wilkie01 Posted on Jul 3 2005, 01:00 PM
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ACC football was down, FSU and Clemson are both in decline. So I believe the Acc added teams for the following reasons:

Miami gave them an elite football program and a mjor TV market.

Agreed.

Quote:Virginia Tech gave them a second elite football program.

VT, at best, is a near-elite football program. They definitely are not 'elite'. They bring no real market. They do, however, have one of the best traveling fans reputation and bowl sponsors love them.

I think it will be interesting to see how Virginia and VT being in the same conference will impact each other.

Quote:Boston College gave the ACC a foothold in the Northeast and a major tv market.

Agreed. 'Foothold' being the key word.


Quote:So, it they expand to 14, it will be for market share in the Northeast.

Syracuse gives the New York City, New York State and New Jersey.

Pittsburgh or PSU gives them Philly and PA.

As much as I love SU, Syracuse by itself would only give the ACC a 'foothold' into the NYC market while bringing lesser markets like Syracuse, Rochester, and Albany. Pitt would not deliver the Philly market, but would deliver the Pittsburgh market and western PA.

PSU would bring the Philly market and help solidify the NYC market with SU.

Quote:That's all they need to be the complete Eastern package.

They knew what would deliver the complete Eastern package and by this I mean the northeastern corridor of DC, Baltimore, Philly, NYC, and Boston.

It was a high risk gamble. Unfortunately, others figured out what was going on, or at least what the potential could be, and major forces came into play to prevent it from happening.

Cheers,
Neil
07-03-2005 03:33 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #62
 
Neil do you think the ACC will go to 14? I do not.
07-03-2005 06:52 PM
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #63
 
Quote:Wilkie01 Posted on Jul 3 2005, 06:58 PM
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Neil do you think the ACC will go to 14? I do not. 

Will they go to 14 now? Probably not. They've basically told everyone they are 'southern' conference - and all of the good 'southern' teams that could make 14 work financially, aren't interested in leaving the SEC.

Would they have eventually gone to 14 if the original ACC expansion plan had taken place? Yes, I'm convinced they would have. By selling themselves as an Atlantic Coast version of the Pac-10, they would have become the prohibitive favorite to land ND when the Irish decide they actually want (or need) conference affiliation. ND's main concerns with conference affiliation is that it would take away from their 'unique' place in football history as an indy. The only conference they would even consider joining as a full member up until 1999 was the B10 mainly due to its academic standing. But it is wary of being dominated in a conference with Michigan and tOSU and larger state schools while ultimately having ND being perceived of as a north central institution in a north central conference.

But, to be in a conference that covers the major northeastern cities where a lot of their subway alums live, with the academic prestige of the ACC, with like-minded institutions, a good mix of private and smaller public schools that operate like privates and to be perceived as 'special' - being the only institution from a state not associated with the Atlantic Coast - that definitely would appeal to ND's ego and image.

An ACC with SU and BC also would have been given serious consideration by PSU, whose main problems with the Big 10 are:

Refs, Travel, and No true rivalries - Doubt ACC refs would be much of an improvement, but ACC travel would be much easier and not as extensive for the Nits and three of the six opponents they have played the most would then have resided in the ACC.

Get one or the other, and expansion to 14 just might be worth it. Get both and there would be no doubt.

BC and SU would have given the ACC a 'foothold' into Boston and NYC markets. ND and PSU in addition to those two, gives the ACC total control of both markets in college athletics, plus Philly, plus also giving them a foothold into Chicago.

Miami and FSU in one division, ND and PSU in the other means the ACC championship game leap-frogs the SEC as the biggest $$$ maker in conference championship games.

With ND and PSU, the Citrus and the Cotton both fight over the ACC for bowl representation - meaning more $$$.

SU and ND added to the ACC means more NCAA bb units for the league then simply adding Miami, VT, and BC brought. It also increases the value of the bb contracts as well as the ACC tourney.

It's the only scenario where 14 currently would definitely make $$$ - and yes, if you haven't figured it out yet, when in a previous post I alluded to securing 'one bird' in hand (Miami) while having an eye on 'two birds' in the bushes, the two birds were ND and PSU.

Pitt would have been the fall back school had either ND or PSU balked 5-7 years down the road. The 5-7 years down the road was twofold in purpose - to get the ACC stable at 12 and making $$$ and to allow ND time to get its house in order.

Cheers,
Neil
07-03-2005 07:35 PM
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brista21 Offline
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Post: #64
 
Wilkie01 Wrote:Syracuse gives the New York City, New York State and New Jersey.
No offense Wilkie, I look forward to your posts more than most others' posts, but Syracuse does not give the BE New York City and New Jersey. To get New Jersey at the moment you'd need Notre Dame and PSU. Although more and more people in NJ are at least sympathetic to Rutgers. 31,000 show up every week to watch a losing program. Imagine if we have our dream season, we'll need to 60,000 seats fast at that point. People in NJ will continue to care about schools they never went to and are in their state until Rutgers does something of note. Then they'll be behind Rutgers and be behing the Big East, which is an awful lot of people who suddenly are Big East FB supporters.
07-03-2005 07:42 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #65
 
brista21 Wrote:
Wilkie01 Wrote:Syracuse gives the New York City, New York State and New Jersey.
No offense Wilkie, I look forward to your posts more than most others' posts, but Syracuse does not give the BE New York City and New Jersey. To get New Jersey at the moment you'd need Notre Dame and PSU. Although more and more people in NJ are at least sympathetic to Rutgers. 31,000 show up every week to watch a losing program. Imagine if we have our dream season, we'll need to 60,000 seats fast at that point. People in NJ will continue to care about schools they never went to and are in their state until Rutgers does something of note. Then they'll be behind Rutgers and be behing the Big East, which is an awful lot of people who suddenly are Big East FB supporters.
I meant no slam on Rutgers, but they were after Syracuse orginally.
07-03-2005 07:46 PM
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brista21 Offline
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Post: #66
 
Wilkie01 Wrote:
brista21 Wrote:
Wilkie01 Wrote:Syracuse gives the New York City, New York State and New Jersey.
No offense Wilkie, I look forward to your posts more than most others' posts, but Syracuse does not give the BE New York City and New Jersey. To get New Jersey at the moment you'd need Notre Dame and PSU. Although more and more people in NJ are at least sympathetic to Rutgers. 31,000 show up every week to watch a losing program. Imagine if we have our dream season, we'll need to 60,000 seats fast at that point. People in NJ will continue to care about schools they never went to and are in their state until Rutgers does something of note. Then they'll be behind Rutgers and be behing the Big East, which is an awful lot of people who suddenly are Big East FB supporters.
I meant no slam on Rutgers, but they were after Syracuse orginally.
Wilkie, I certainly did not interpret that way. I just think everyone overrates Syracuse's draw in Jersey there certainly exist Syracuse bball supporters in larger numbers but not so much for Football. Example two of my friends that don't go to Rutgers and go to smaller regional D-3 schools are Syracuse BB fans, and one is a FSU FB fan and the other a Miami FB fan. However one of those fans is a diehard UNC fan overall. He and I can get at each other's throats regarding College Sports as he loves the ACC and I love the BE. But back to the topic at hand, they favor Syracuse BB not Syracuse FB and I think the idea would be to nab support in both sports via Syracuse.
07-03-2005 07:54 PM
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #67
 
Quote:brista21 Posted on Jul 3 2005, 07:48 PM
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QUOTE (Wilkie01 @ Jul 3 2005, 01:00 PM)
Syracuse gives the New York City, New York State and New Jersey. 

No offense Wilkie, I look forward to your posts more than most others' posts, but Syracuse does not give the BE New York City and New Jersey. To get New Jersey at the moment you'd need Notre Dame and PSU. Although more and more people in NJ are at least sympathetic to Rutgers. 31,000 show up every week to watch a losing program. Imagine if we have our dream season, we'll need to 60,000 seats fast at that point. People in NJ will continue to care about schools they never went to and are in their state until Rutgers does something of note. Then they'll be behind Rutgers and be behing the Big East, which is an awful lot of people who suddenly are Big East FB supporters. 

Here, here Brista.

A good Rutgers program helps the BE because of its strategic location between NYC and Philly.

When Hill replaces Waters in bb, the Scarlet Knights will get there in that sport. You already are great in women's bb.

As for football, I think Schiano has got to go. If you guys had Al Groh and Al Golden, you'd have made it in football by now.

Cheers,
Neil
07-03-2005 07:56 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #68
 
Guys, I am just glad to be in the BE!
07-03-2005 08:09 PM
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omniorange Offline
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Post: #69
 
Quote:Wilkie01 Posted on Jul 3 2005, 08:15 PM
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Guys, I am just glad to be in the BE! 

Yes, we know Cards fans are happy. And eventually, I'll probably get there as an SU fan - but there will always be a small part of me that will think about what might have been and another small part of me that will wish for a future northeastern all-sports conference.

And since that last part includes Louisville and Cincinnati, I am embracing both teams as they enter the BE.

USF will simply have to grow on me. At this point in time I'm trying to focus on the things I like about them such as the location, the stadium, the nickname, the logo, and the fact that add the color green to the BE :D

And that's a lot of pluses.

Cheers,
Neil
07-03-2005 08:15 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #70
 
I wish the conference would have had Miami, VA Tech, BC, and PSU! But we do not! So I look forward to us making them wish they had not left. 04-cheers
07-03-2005 08:31 PM
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brista21 Offline
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Post: #71
 
omnicarrier Wrote:
Quote:brista21 Posted on Jul 3 2005, 07:48 PM
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QUOTE (Wilkie01 @ Jul 3 2005, 01:00 PM)
Syracuse gives the New York City, New York State and New Jersey. 

No offense Wilkie, I look forward to your posts more than most others' posts, but Syracuse does not give the BE New York City and New Jersey. To get New Jersey at the moment you'd need Notre Dame and PSU. Although more and more people in NJ are at least sympathetic to Rutgers. 31,000 show up every week to watch a losing program. Imagine if we have our dream season, we'll need to 60,000 seats fast at that point. People in NJ will continue to care about schools they never went to and are in their state until Rutgers does something of note. Then they'll be behind Rutgers and be behing the Big East, which is an awful lot of people who suddenly are Big East FB supporters. 

Here, here Brista.

A good Rutgers program helps the BE because of its strategic location between NYC and Philly.

When Hill replaces Waters in bb, the Scarlet Knights will get there in that sport. You already are great in women's bb.

As for football, I think Schiano has got to go. If you guys had Al Groh and Al Golden, you'd have made it in football by now.

Cheers,
Neil
Perhaps, Al Golden and Al Groh would have got it done, perhaps not. Schiano has proven himself to be a very good recruiter and very good at getting the foundations to build a modern, top-notch FB program on in place. Now if Schiano can gameday coach this year, then we're talking about the sky being the limit with him. Many people sour on Greg, while I continue to support him for now. I'm a notorious GS supporter afterall. If Schiano posts another underwhelming season this year then he needs to go as the foundations he has built will be gone. But something in me tells me a young NJ guy like him is the one who was destined to do it.
07-03-2005 09:43 PM
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