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BC's bumpy landing
Imminent ACC entry ends turbulent flight
By Mark Blaudschun, Globe Staff | June 30, 2005

The mood at the posh resort in Orlando, Fla., was jovial and relaxed as the athletic directors from the nation's top schools wrapped up their annual convention.

Florida State's AD and the group's outgoing president, took advantage of the setting for a casual but business-oriented talk with Dave Braine, the AD at Georgia Tech. Along with former Clemson AD Bobby Robinson, Hart and Braine were the leaders in the slow but steady evolution of the Atlantic Coast Conference from a basketball-dominated league that also played football to a conference that wanted to be regarded among the elite in both sports.

So now, on this early summer evening, the talk was again of the ACC's future and which schools could be added for it to go from a nine-team league to 12, which would mean a conference title game in football, and additional revenue.

Hart and Braine began to consider an expanded ACC with potential new members. Also among the group was Paul Dee, AD at the University of Miami, who had been studying the conference landscape for several years to see if the highly regarded Hurricane football program could move from the Big East for a bigger financial payoff. And there was Gene DeFilippo, the energetic AD at Boston College. DeFilippo's agenda was more informational than anything else. He was also a close friend of Hart's. The two bounced ideas off each other all the time.

This time, it was different.

BC, DeFilippo was told, was very much a player in what the ACC hoped would be a true super conference.

It was June 2000.

Long time coming
The BC athletics website has been counting down the time (to the second) until the Eagles officially become a member of the ACC tomorrow. The official countdown has been under way for one year nine months, but unofficially it began five years ago.

What started as a trickle with the gathering in Orlando in 2000 has developed into a strong current from Boston to the ACC offices in Greensboro, N.C., and points beyond. The trip has been far costlier than anyone anticipated -- lawsuits, accusations, and broken bonds between schools that once considered themselves partners.

''None of this has been easy," said DeFilippo. ''But I think the worst part is over now. It's time to move on. Only time will tell if we did the right thing. I feel in my heart that we did what was right for Boston College."

But to understand where BC and the ACC are going, you first have to first understand where they were, and what were their original goals.

In terms of the ACC, what prompted the idea of getting bigger, if not better, was a move it didn't make. ''What started it all, in my opinion, was when Penn State made the move to the Big Ten [in 1991]," said former ACC commissioner Gene Corrigan. ''We were all asleep at the switch on that one. I thought Penn State would have been a perfect fit for the ACC. Once that happened, I became obsessed with expansion."
From its inception in 1953, the ACC had been no stranger to change. When Clemson, Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, North Carolina State, South Carolina, and Wake Forest broke away from the football tradition-rich Southern Conference in 1953, the face of college athletics in the South received its first jolt.

Over the years, the ACC matured, establishing itself as a premier basketball conference and a solid football league. But by 1991, Corrigan realized that football was becoming the driver of the bus in college athletic revenues. And in the South, with the dominance of the Southeastern Conference, the ACC needed a presence in talent-laden Florida.

Thus, Corrigan focused on Florida State . . . and Miami.

''We locked in Florida State right away," said Corrigan, overcoming a fight from some of the Tobacco Road schools about adding even one school. ''But the more I thought about it, I thought it would make sense to go after both of them. The two schools had a natural rivalry. But Miami was out of favor at the time. I just couldn't generate any interest."

It wasn't that the Hurricanes weren't good enough for the ACC, at least on the field. Miami, which had won national championships in 1983, '87, '89, and '91, had developed a reputation for its off-field antics.

And it wasn't just the ACC that thumbed its nose at the Hurricanes. Sam Jankovich, the Miami AD at the time, remembers talking to the SEC and getting a similar chilly feeling. ''They just weren't interested," said Jankovich, who was primarily searching for a home for his basketball program.

Enter the Big East, which was still riding its basketball glory days of the '80s, but looking to branch out and form a football conference. The only problem was it had no marquee football schools. The Big East had attempted to add Penn State in 1981, but coach Joe Paterno and the Nittany Lions came up one vote short from the member schools. Instead, Pittsburgh, Penn State's archrival at the time, was invited to join. It was a decision that continues to haunt the Big East.

A decade later, when the issue of Big East football came up again, Penn State was discussed. But before the Big East could make a decision, the Big Ten invited the Nittany Lions as its 11th member. With expansion suddenly on the table, other Big East schools that had no conference affiliation in football started looking for spots.

''The clouds were forming around the issue of football again with BC, Pitt, and Syracuse sensing some conference movement around the country," former Syracuse AD Jake Crouthamel wrote on the school website in December 2000. ''Other conferences began nosing around for potential new members, particularly the ACC and the SEC. At the time, the athletic directors at Pitt and BC joined me on a trip to the ACC office to talk about federated membership in football only."
Page 3 of 4 --Before that idea bore fruit, the Big East had voted to add Miami and formed a football league. But three years after formation of the Big East football conference, the squabbling among the basketball-only members and the football schools broke out. So much so that the league almost split. Even after the decision had been made for the conference to stay together, Big East football never developed an identity other than Miami, and later Virginia Tech.


Winds of change
With the advent of the Bowl Championship Series in 1998, college football became an even bigger force in generating revenue for athletic departments. As long as Miami stayed in the Big East, the league would be among the nation's best and remain a part of the BCS, and thus receive a portion of the money that flowed from it. In other words, BC felt secure.

However, the attitude in the Hurricane athletic offices was changing. Dee had replaced Jankovich, who had moved on to run the Patriots. Miami's attitude became more corporate and the feeling was that the Hurricanes would be more comfortable in a southern league than as the lone southern entry in a northern-dominated conference. Nothing was definite, as the discussions at the ADs' convention in Orlando indicated, but no doors were closed.

And the more Miami talked about leaving, the more nervous BC got. Without Miami, the Big East had no guarantees. BC football coach Tom O'Brien recognized that. By late winter 2003, the chatter was constant. O'Brien made his preference clear from the start. ''Where Miami goes is where I want to be," he said. The joke was that if Miami exhaled, BC would inhale. Still, it was all talk until March 2003, following the Big East's sweep of the national championships in men's (Syracuse) and women's basketball (Connecticut).

Tranghese remembers getting a call from a New York sportswriter he had known for years. ''Do you know what's going on with the ACC?" he was asked. Tranghese thought it involved Wake Forest basketball coach Skip Prosser, who was considering an offer from Pittsburgh, which was looking for a new coach after Ben Howland left to take the UCLA job.

Tranghese replied that he thought Prosser would take the job. ''No," came the reply. ''People at Wake Forest are telling Skip that the Big East won't be around in five years. The ACC is going to make a major raid on the Big East."

The talk was true, which first hurt and then infuriated Tranghese, who accused the ACC of behind-the-back dealings. And while Pittsburgh was not the focus of the ACC's attention, Miami was. And so were BC and Syracuse because Miami, with much of its alumni based in the Northeast, wanted a northern linkage.

Hurt feelings
After their initial rejection in May 2003, the Eagles had to sit through that summer in a state of limbo. But despite that, the school received assurances from the ACC as the accusations flew.

Richard Blumethal, Connecticut's attorney general, filed suit in June accusing BC, Miami, and the ACC of ''a backroom conspiracy . . . and carried out through calculated deceit."

The ACC was just an 11-team league and could not hold a lucrative conference title game (12 teams are the NCAA minimum). A 12th team was needed and BC was the most logical choice.

By October, the issue had again come to a boiling point. At a Big East meeting in Newark Oct. 1, conference presidents asked BC president Rev. William P. Leahy, S.J., about the Eagles' intentions. Leahy squirmed, but conceded that the Eagles might indeed be leaving the conference. It was suggested that BC might have remained if the Big East had finally made the split with its basketball-only schools and reconfigured as an eight- or nine-team league.

''If they had said we will stay if you do that, we would have approved it," said a former administrator from a Big East school. ''But they never asked."

A little more than two weeks later, the ACC voted, 9-0, to add BC as its 12th member for 2005.

''If Boston College had left the first time, we would have been angry and hurt, but we would have understood," said a former administrator from a Big East school. ''What irritates a lot of us is that they came back into the room and were making plans for the future in our league at the same time they were continuing talks with the ACC."

For many, the process was a black eye for college athletics. ''I think the public is disgusted with all of us, and to be perfectly honest with you, that includes me," Tranghese said.

Only now, five years after the ACC first set its sights on BC, are the wounds beginning to heal. The lawsuit was settled after the sides agreed to mediation.

''There are some hurt feelings," said O'Brien, whose Eagles will face Florida State at Alumni Stadium Sept. 17 in their ACC opener. ''But that's to be expected in a situation like this."

Corrigan, who started the expansion movement 14 years ago, and still has friends in both leagues, acknowledges the damage that has been done. ''There's a lot of bitterness," he said. ''I'd be bitter if it happened to me. You'd be bitter. BC doesn't fit [in the ACC] geographical sense. But it's a private school with a great academic reputation. In every other way, it's a good fit."

It's a different fit for DeFilippo, a self-described ''Eastern guy" who one day thought he might become the Big East commissioner.

''We'll have to see how it all plays out," said DeFilippo, who said his five-year dialogue with the ACC was something any AD looking out for his school's interests would have done. ''I feel good about where we are and where we are going."
06-30-2005 07:59 AM
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brista21 Offline
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Jackson1011 Wrote:BC's bumpy landing
Imminent ACC entry ends turbulent flight
By Mark Blaudschun, Globe Staff | June 30, 2005

The mood at the posh resort in Orlando, Fla., was jovial and relaxed as the athletic directors from the nation's top schools wrapped up their annual convention.

Florida State's AD and the group's outgoing president, took advantage of the setting for a casual but business-oriented talk with Dave Braine, the AD at Georgia Tech. Along with former Clemson AD Bobby Robinson, Hart and Braine were the leaders in the slow but steady evolution of the Atlantic Coast Conference from a basketball-dominated league that also played football to a conference that wanted to be regarded among the elite in both sports.

So now, on this early summer evening, the talk was again of the ACC's future and which schools could be added for it to go from a nine-team league to 12, which would mean a conference title game in football, and additional revenue.

Hart and Braine began to consider an expanded ACC with potential new members. Also among the group was Paul Dee, AD at the University of Miami, who had been studying the conference landscape for several years to see if the highly regarded Hurricane football program could move from the Big East for a bigger financial payoff. And there was Gene DeFilippo, the energetic AD at Boston College. DeFilippo's agenda was more informational than anything else. He was also a close friend of Hart's. The two bounced ideas off each other all the time.

This time, it was different.

BC, DeFilippo was told, was very much a player in what the ACC hoped would be a true super conference.

It was June 2000.

Long time coming
The BC athletics website has been counting down the time (to the second) until the Eagles officially become a member of the ACC tomorrow. The official countdown has been under way for one year nine months, but unofficially it began five years ago.

What started as a trickle with the gathering in Orlando in 2000 has developed into a strong current from Boston to the ACC offices in Greensboro, N.C., and points beyond. The trip has been far costlier than anyone anticipated -- lawsuits, accusations, and broken bonds between schools that once considered themselves partners.

''None of this has been easy," said DeFilippo. ''But I think the worst part is over now. It's time to move on. Only time will tell if we did the right thing. I feel in my heart that we did what was right for Boston College."

But to understand where BC and the ACC are going, you first have to first understand where they were, and what were their original goals.

In terms of the ACC, what prompted the idea of getting bigger, if not better, was a move it didn't make. ''What started it all, in my opinion, was when Penn State made the move to the Big Ten [in 1991]," said former ACC commissioner Gene Corrigan. ''We were all asleep at the switch on that one. I thought Penn State would have been a perfect fit for the ACC. Once that happened, I became obsessed with expansion."
From its inception in 1953, the ACC had been no stranger to change. When Clemson, Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, North Carolina State, South Carolina, and Wake Forest broke away from the football tradition-rich Southern Conference in 1953, the face of college athletics in the South received its first jolt.

Over the years, the ACC matured, establishing itself as a premier basketball conference and a solid football league. But by 1991, Corrigan realized that football was becoming the driver of the bus in college athletic revenues. And in the South, with the dominance of the Southeastern Conference, the ACC needed a presence in talent-laden Florida.

Thus, Corrigan focused on Florida State . . . and Miami.

''We locked in Florida State right away," said Corrigan, overcoming a fight from some of the Tobacco Road schools about adding even one school. ''But the more I thought about it, I thought it would make sense to go after both of them. The two schools had a natural rivalry. But Miami was out of favor at the time. I just couldn't generate any interest."

It wasn't that the Hurricanes weren't good enough for the ACC, at least on the field. Miami, which had won national championships in 1983, '87, '89, and '91, had developed a reputation for its off-field antics.

And it wasn't just the ACC that thumbed its nose at the Hurricanes. Sam Jankovich, the Miami AD at the time, remembers talking to the SEC and getting a similar chilly feeling. ''They just weren't interested," said Jankovich, who was primarily searching for a home for his basketball program.

Enter the Big East, which was still riding its basketball glory days of the '80s, but looking to branch out and form a football conference. The only problem was it had no marquee football schools. The Big East had attempted to add Penn State in 1981, but coach Joe Paterno and the Nittany Lions came up one vote short from the member schools. Instead, Pittsburgh, Penn State's archrival at the time, was invited to join. It was a decision that continues to haunt the Big East.

A decade later, when the issue of Big East football came up again, Penn State was discussed. But before the Big East could make a decision, the Big Ten invited the Nittany Lions as its 11th member. With expansion suddenly on the table, other Big East schools that had no conference affiliation in football started looking for spots.

''The clouds were forming around the issue of football again with BC, Pitt, and Syracuse sensing some conference movement around the country," former Syracuse AD Jake Crouthamel wrote on the school website in December 2000. ''Other conferences began nosing around for potential new members, particularly the ACC and the SEC. At the time, the athletic directors at Pitt and BC joined me on a trip to the ACC office to talk about federated membership in football only."
Page 3 of 4 --Before that idea bore fruit, the Big East had voted to add Miami and formed a football league. But three years after formation of the Big East football conference, the squabbling among the basketball-only members and the football schools broke out. So much so that the league almost split. Even after the decision had been made for the conference to stay together, Big East football never developed an identity other than Miami, and later Virginia Tech.


Winds of change
With the advent of the Bowl Championship Series in 1998, college football became an even bigger force in generating revenue for athletic departments. As long as Miami stayed in the Big East, the league would be among the nation's best and remain a part of the BCS, and thus receive a portion of the money that flowed from it. In other words, BC felt secure.

However, the attitude in the Hurricane athletic offices was changing. Dee had replaced Jankovich, who had moved on to run the Patriots. Miami's attitude became more corporate and the feeling was that the Hurricanes would be more comfortable in a southern league than as the lone southern entry in a northern-dominated conference. Nothing was definite, as the discussions at the ADs' convention in Orlando indicated, but no doors were closed.

And the more Miami talked about leaving, the more nervous BC got. Without Miami, the Big East had no guarantees. BC football coach Tom O'Brien recognized that. By late winter 2003, the chatter was constant. O'Brien made his preference clear from the start. ''Where Miami goes is where I want to be," he said. The joke was that if Miami exhaled, BC would inhale. Still, it was all talk until March 2003, following the Big East's sweep of the national championships in men's (Syracuse) and women's basketball (Connecticut).

Tranghese remembers getting a call from a New York sportswriter he had known for years. ''Do you know what's going on with the ACC?" he was asked. Tranghese thought it involved Wake Forest basketball coach Skip Prosser, who was considering an offer from Pittsburgh, which was looking for a new coach after Ben Howland left to take the UCLA job.

Tranghese replied that he thought Prosser would take the job. ''No," came the reply. ''People at Wake Forest are telling Skip that the Big East won't be around in five years. The ACC is going to make a major raid on the Big East."

The talk was true, which first hurt and then infuriated Tranghese, who accused the ACC of behind-the-back dealings. And while Pittsburgh was not the focus of the ACC's attention, Miami was. And so were BC and Syracuse because Miami, with much of its alumni based in the Northeast, wanted a northern linkage.

Hurt feelings
After their initial rejection in May 2003, the Eagles had to sit through that summer in a state of limbo. But despite that, the school received assurances from the ACC as the accusations flew.

Richard Blumethal, Connecticut's attorney general, filed suit in June accusing BC, Miami, and the ACC of ''a backroom conspiracy . . . and carried out through calculated deceit."

The ACC was just an 11-team league and could not hold a lucrative conference title game (12 teams are the NCAA minimum). A 12th team was needed and BC was the most logical choice.

By October, the issue had again come to a boiling point. At a Big East meeting in Newark Oct. 1, conference presidents asked BC president Rev. William P. Leahy, S.J., about the Eagles' intentions. Leahy squirmed, but conceded that the Eagles might indeed be leaving the conference. It was suggested that BC might have remained if the Big East had finally made the split with its basketball-only schools and reconfigured as an eight- or nine-team league.

''If they had said we will stay if you do that, we would have approved it," said a former administrator from a Big East school. ''But they never asked."

A little more than two weeks later, the ACC voted, 9-0, to add BC as its 12th member for 2005.

''If Boston College had left the first time, we would have been angry and hurt, but we would have understood," said a former administrator from a Big East school. ''What irritates a lot of us is that they came back into the room and were making plans for the future in our league at the same time they were continuing talks with the ACC."

For many, the process was a black eye for college athletics. ''I think the public is disgusted with all of us, and to be perfectly honest with you, that includes me," Tranghese said.

Only now, five years after the ACC first set its sights on BC, are the wounds beginning to heal. The lawsuit was settled after the sides agreed to mediation.

''There are some hurt feelings," said O'Brien, whose Eagles will face Florida State at Alumni Stadium Sept. 17 in their ACC opener. ''But that's to be expected in a situation like this."

Corrigan, who started the expansion movement 14 years ago, and still has friends in both leagues, acknowledges the damage that has been done. ''There's a lot of bitterness," he said. ''I'd be bitter if it happened to me. You'd be bitter. BC doesn't fit [in the ACC] geographical sense. But it's a private school with a great academic reputation. In every other way, it's a good fit."

It's a different fit for DeFilippo, a self-described ''Eastern guy" who one day thought he might become the Big East commissioner.

''We'll have to see how it all plays out," said DeFilippo, who said his five-year dialogue with the ACC was something any AD looking out for his school's interests would have done. ''I feel good about where we are and where we are going."
I don't believe that BC ever stated that they were thinking of leaving at the Newark meeting. DeFilipo really is swine as is Leahy. I don't really blame BC as an institution or even its obnoxious, arrogant despite not really doing anything fans but their current administration. Those guys go and we can get Penn State we invite them immediately. Even if the current admin is still in place they'll do whatever is best for their program and cutting down on travel costs and being back with PSU and Cuse is certainly in their best interests. In 2 years Rutgers will have played Cincy more times than it played Miami and in 5 years Rutgers will have played Cincy more times than it played Virginia Tech. Boston College on the other hand has a ways to go. If you look at common football opponents in modern times (Late 70s on) for Cincy, Rutgers and Syracuse are two of the most common opponents so particularly for Cincinnati tomorrow is coming home to where they belong.
06-30-2005 08:49 AM
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JIM15068 Offline
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Jackson1011 Wrote:BC's bumpy landing
Imminent ACC entry ends turbulent flight
By Mark Blaudschun, Globe Staff  |  June 30, 2005



BC, DeFilippo was told, was very much a player in what the ACC hoped would be a true super conference.

It was June 2000.

(THREE YEARS OF CLOSED DOOR CONSRIRACY?)



''The clouds were forming around the issue of football again with BC, Pitt, and Syracuse sensing some conference movement around the country," former Syracuse AD Jake Crouthamel wrote on the school website in December 2000. ''Other conferences began nosing around for potential new members, particularly the ACC and the SEC. At the time, the athletic directors at Pitt and BC joined me on a trip to the ACC office to talk about federated membership in football only."
Page 3 of 4 --Before that idea bore fruit, the Big East had voted to add Miami and formed a football league.

(MIAMI TRULY TURNED OUT TO BE A LONG-TERM MISTAKE. aT THE TIME, I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD MOVE, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE OTHER POSSIBILITIES.)


But three years after formation of the Big East football conference, the squabbling among the basketball-only members and the football schools broke out. So much so that the league almost split.
(IN RETROSPECT, THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A GREAT THING. NOW, WE HAVE TO PUT OFF THAT SPLIT FOR A FEW YEARS, IT SEEMS.)

O'Brien made his preference clear from the start. ''Where Miami goes is where I want to be," he said. The joke was that if Miami exhaled, BC would inhale.

(DOESN'T SEEM LIKE A JOKE.)

Tranghese remembers getting a call from a New York sportswriter he had known for years. ''Do you know what's going on with the ACC?" he was asked. Tranghese thought it involved Wake Forest basketball coach Skip Prosser, who was considering an offer from Pittsburgh, which was looking for a new coach after Ben Howland left to take the UCLA job.

Tranghese replied that he thought Prosser would take the job. ''No," came the reply. ''People at Wake Forest are telling Skip that the Big East won't be around in five years. The ACC is going to make a major raid on the Big East."

(JUST MORE PROOF THAT ONE OF THE ACC GOALS MIGHT HAVE BEEN TO DESTROY THE BIGEAST.)



By October, the issue had again come to a boiling point. At a Big East meeting in Newark Oct. 1, conference presidents asked BC president Rev. William P. Leahy, S.J., about the Eagles' intentions. Leahy squirmed, but conceded that the Eagles might indeed be leaving the conference. It was suggested that BC might have remained if the Big East had finally made the split with its basketball-only schools and reconfigured as an eight- or nine-team league.

''If they had said we will stay if you do that, we would have approved it," said a former administrator from a Big East school. ''But they never asked."

( I'VE READ THE ENTIRE MINUTES OF THAT MEETING. BC NEVER INDICATED THAT A SPLIT WOULD KEEP THEM IN THE FOLD.)


''There are some hurt feelings," said O'Brien, whose Eagles will face Florida State at Alumni Stadium Sept. 17 in their ACC opener. ''But that's to be expected in a situation like this."

(NOW, THERE'S AN UNDERSTATEMENT!)



It's a different fit for DeFilippo, a self-described ''Eastern guy" who one day thought he might become the Big East commissioner.

( HE CAN CROSS THAT DREAM OFF HIS LIST.)

''We'll have to see how it all plays out," said DeFilippo, who said his five-year dialogue with the ACC was something any AD looking out for his school's interests would have done. ''I feel good about where we are and where we are going."

(I, OF COURSE, FEEL DIFFERENTLY.)
SO THERE IT IS.

Jim
06-30-2005 11:16 AM
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GunnerFan Offline
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JIM15068 Wrote:
Jackson1011 Wrote:BC's bumpy landing
Imminent ACC entry ends turbulent flight
By Mark Blaudschun, Globe Staff  |  June 30, 2005

...

By October, the issue had again come to a boiling point. At a Big East meeting in Newark Oct. 1, conference presidents asked BC president Rev. William P. Leahy, S.J., about the Eagles' intentions. Leahy squirmed, but conceded that the Eagles might indeed be leaving the conference. It was suggested that BC might have remained if the Big East had finally made the split with its basketball-only schools and reconfigured as an eight- or nine-team league.

''If they had said we will stay if you do that, we would have approved it," said a former administrator from a Big East school. ''But they never asked."

I'VE READ THE ENTIRE MINUTES OF THAT MEETING. BC NEVER INDICATED THAT A SPLIT WOULD KEEP THEM IN THE FOLD.
Well, there are the July meeting minutes which state:

"Jake Carouthamel goes on record and states that if this group expands to 16, he will resign his post as AD at Syracuse. Gene DiFillippo echoes those sentiments."

So the ground has been laid that BC's administrators are against a 16 team BE. Reading those minutes (from July) further, a few other points come to mind:

- There appears near unanimous support for a dissolution of the BE, with measures being outlined for establishing an amicable break-up with the "basketball schools" while identifying new candidates for addition to the 1-A conference;

- Father Leahy questions the BE's committment and convinces the attendees to table any formal action regarding their committment to each other. There is no indication of reprimand, contrary discussion or the other participants outvoting him here;

- The result of this meeting had the 1-A football conference members poised to "draft a constitution for the new 1-A league," and all but confirmed that a split was going to happen.

Thus, between the July and October meetings the other BE football members became accepting of the 16 team model, Jake Carouthmel stepped aside and BC followed through on the interest expressed in them by the ACC, as indicated in the October meeting minutes.

There may not have been in depth discussion of the issue or BC using some exacting language like "If we split the BE, BC will stay," but you can't say the BE schools weren't aware of BC's preferences, either.

If anything I as a Syracuse fan am upset that the Cuse and Pitt didn't do more to convince BC to stay. Those schools had the same vested interest and possibilities before them and seemingly didn't go out on the limb necessary to keep BC. I'm not saying they could have made BC stay, but if efforts were made they not only didn't succeed but they weren't even been worthy enough to put into the press. The BE had its back to the wall, and the BE fan in me expected better from this conference. I still have hope, but a lot of bitterness as well.
06-30-2005 11:48 AM
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Jackson1011 Offline
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Quote:If anything I as a Syracuse fan am upset that the Cuse and Pitt didn't do more to convince BC to stay. Those schools had the same vested interest and possibilities before them and seemingly didn't go out on the limb necessary to keep BC. I'm not saying they could have made BC stay, but if efforts were made they not only didn't succeed but they weren't even been worthy enough to put into the press. The BE had its back to the wall, and the BE fan in me expected better from this conference. I still have hope, but a lot of bitterness as well.

-- I doubt there was little SU and Pitt could do...as the article said BC was much more interested in being in the same conference as Miami then in being with old rivals SU, Pitt, WVU and rutgers...and although this fact did not make it into the article...I have read that some BE school officials did not know that in fact BC was still talking to the ACC after they have been rejected the first time...I know we all remember DeFlippio's public comments about how BC was committed to the BE etc

-- One of the reasons for BC departure that get's a lot of play around here is the Uconn factor....BC wanted to be able to seperate itself from the young program that is dumping millions of $$ into football and is already drawing as many if not more fans to football games...In 10 yrs I firmly believe Uconn will be the college football team of New England just like they are for bball now


Jackson
06-30-2005 12:52 PM
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Jackson1011 Wrote:
Quote:If anything I as a Syracuse fan am upset that the Cuse and Pitt didn't do more to convince BC to stay. Those schools had the same vested interest and possibilities before them and seemingly didn't go out on the limb necessary to keep BC. I'm not saying they could have made BC stay, but if efforts were made they not only didn't succeed but they weren't even been worthy enough to put into the press. The BE had its back to the wall, and the BE fan in me expected better from this conference. I still have hope, but a lot of bitterness as well.

-- I doubt there was little SU and Pitt could do...as the article said BC was much more interested in being in the same conference as Miami then in being with old rivals SU, Pitt, WVU and rutgers...and although this fact did not make it into the article...I have read that some BE school officials did not know that in fact BC was still talking to the ACC after they have been rejected the first time...I know we all remember DeFlippio's public comments about how BC was committed to the BE etc

-- One of the reasons for BC departure that get's a lot of play around here is the Uconn factor....BC wanted to be able to seperate itself from the young program that is dumping millions of $$ into football and is already drawing as many if not more fans to football games...In 10 yrs I firmly believe Uconn will be the college football team of New England just like they are for bball now


Jackson
UConn may make BC a non-factor in New England collegiate athletics sans for maybe hockey. This past year seems like it was the best year ever for BC Athletics but it also seems like it was the beginning of the fall of BC Athletics. If they'd rather play Miami (whom they do have a fairly extensive rivalry with) then let them. I personally could care less about Miami I'd rather play our traditional rivals in Cuse, Pitt, WVU, Cincy, and UConn plus Louisville and South Florida every year. Yes Rutgers has played Cincinnati 10 times in the last 20 or so years prior to this year and Connecticut 24 times overall.
06-30-2005 01:09 PM
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GunnerFan Offline
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Jackson1011 Wrote:-- I doubt there was little SU and Pitt could do...as the article said BC was much more interested in being in the same conference as Miami then in being with old rivals SU, Pitt, WVU and rutgers
Sadly I agree there probably wasn't much anyone could've done. It's all Flutie's fault for forever binding these two schools!! :D
Quote:...and although this fact did not make it into the article...I have read that some BE school officials did not know that in fact BC was still talking to the ACC after they have been rejected the first time...I know we all remember DeFlippio's public comments about how BC was committed to the BE etc
I'd tell those officials to watch ESPN, the net, etc. Once the ACC was at 11 the prospects of adding one more jumped 1000%, and speculation throughout the early part of that football season was "who would it be," with even Beano Cook suggesting the ACC would follow through with Boston College long before the votes were made. For the sake of their conference they should've at least prepared for the worst case scenario and made assumptions, IMO.

This goes back to the above points about BE action, which, IMO, was as fast and effective as a federal government study. Had the ACC not mentioned and considered Cuse and BC then yes, I could see how the BE was completely blindsided. Maybe it's the Cuse fan in me, but I keep thinking that they could easily have been staring an 8-10 team conference in the face, one with BC, UofL and Cincy and felt comfortable enough about their BCS status that the Eagles would've said "Thanks, but no thanks."

Quote:-- One of the reasons for BC departure that get's a lot of play around here is the Uconn factor....BC wanted to be able to seperate itself from the young program that is dumping millions of $$ into football and is already drawing as many if not more fans to football games...In 10 yrs I firmly believe Uconn will be the college football team of New England just like they are for bball.
I agree, which is ashame for BC to play it that way. Is this one reason why UMass, even if they should get State support, might never be granted admission by UConn's conference? Could be, as the Huskies would certainly love to claim those NE millions as soley theirs.
06-30-2005 01:31 PM
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SF Husky Offline
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GunnerFan Wrote:
Jackson1011 Wrote:-- I doubt there was little SU and Pitt could do...as the article said BC was much more interested in being in the same conference as Miami then in being with old rivals SU, Pitt, WVU and rutgers
Sadly I agree there probably wasn't much anyone could've done. It's all Flutie's fault for forever binding these two schools!! :D
Quote:...and although this fact did not make it into the article...I have read that some BE school officials did not know that in fact BC was still talking to the ACC after they have been rejected the first time...I know we all remember DeFlippio's public comments about how BC was committed to the BE etc
I'd tell those officials to watch ESPN, the net, etc. Once the ACC was at 11 the prospects of adding one more jumped 1000%, and speculation throughout the early part of that football season was "who would it be," with even Beano Cook suggesting the ACC would follow through with Boston College long before the votes were made. For the sake of their conference they should've at least prepared for the worst case scenario and made assumptions, IMO.

This goes back to the above points about BE action, which, IMO, was as fast and effective as a federal government study. Had the ACC not mentioned and considered Cuse and BC then yes, I could see how the BE was completely blindsided. Maybe it's the Cuse fan in me, but I keep thinking that they could easily have been staring an 8-10 team conference in the face, one with BC, UofL and Cincy and felt comfortable enough about their BCS status that the Eagles would've said "Thanks, but no thanks."

Quote:-- One of the reasons for BC departure that get's a lot of play around here is the Uconn factor....BC wanted to be able to seperate itself from the young program that is dumping millions of $$ into football and is already drawing as many if not more fans to football games...In 10 yrs I firmly believe Uconn will be the college football team of New England just like they are for bball.
I agree, which is ashame for BC to play it that way. Is this one reason why UMass, even if they should get State support, might never be granted admission by UConn's conference? Could be, as the Huskies would certainly love to claim those NE millions as soley theirs.
I for one would love to see UMASS upgrade and get into the BE. UCONN would literally have a local rival that be as heated as ever. Most UCONN fans cant stand BC fans, but UMASS is not far behind. UCONN fans have been feeling sorry for UMASS fans since we have been beating on them and BC for years in basketball. As for football, UCONN will overtake BC easily. It is not a question but when. When UCONN gets 50k+ to their games, UCONN program would have taken another level. Even with only 3 years in IA, UCONN will probably sell over 30K of season tickets this year. If UCONN wins a few more games, I have no doubt the games will sell out and they will have no choice but to expand the stadium.
06-30-2005 02:09 PM
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Quote:Sadly I agree there probably wasn't much anyone could've done. It's all Flutie's fault for forever binding these two schools!! 

-- Ahh Doug Flutie...please allow me one more small piece of smack aimed towards our former conference breathered...Doug Flutie..0-4 Lifetime against West Virginia 04-rock
[Image: BC84.jpg]




Quote:This goes back to the above points about BE action, which, IMO, was as fast and effective as a federal government study. Had the ACC not mentioned and considered Cuse and BC then yes, I could see how the BE was completely blindsided. Maybe it's the Cuse fan in me, but I keep thinking that they could easily have been staring an 8-10 team conference in the face, one with BC, UofL and Cincy and felt comfortable enough about their BCS status that the Eagles would've said "Thanks, but no thanks."

-- The cold truth is such a conference would have been in place for at least a decade if it were not for Boston College and Syracuse...who in the early 90s did not want an all sports league

-- If BC would have stayed the course there is no way that the current 8 team format ( Eagles subbed in for the Bulls) would have lost its BCS bid...that football conference would have just controlled too many markets....I'm sure BC and every network in America knew this but the Eagles still left....the only way BC would have said thanks but not thanks to the ACC is if Penn St or Notre Dame became full football members of the BE or the new eastern all sports league...hell...it might have taken both schools to join the league considering how long BC and the ACC had worked this out...by the fall of 2003 BC had cast the die...no matter what there AD says now


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06-30-2005 02:13 PM
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Uh huh! Now the truth comes out again. But, of course, the brainwashed national media will never focus on any of the juicy revelations from this article. Such as ... Miami and BC were conspiring in secret to leave the Big East for the ACC for more than three years ... Former ACC commissioner Gene Corrigan wanted Penn State years ago but never seriously pursued them ... He also wanted Miami at the same time Florida State was added, but the ACC schools weren't interested ... The Big East almost split over the football issue in the early 1990s but didn't, merely delaying destiny ... BC follows Miami around everywhere like a lovestruck puppy ... Wake Forest officials told Skip Prosser the ACC would raid the Big East to keep him from going to Pitt, months before the raid happened ... BC was double dealing and being totally dishonest with the Big East the whole summer and fall after the ACC raid and before their own last minute defection ... AD Gene DeFilippo dreamed of becoming Big East commissioner someday.
06-30-2005 02:24 PM
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GunnerFan Offline
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Krocker Krapp Wrote:Wake Forest officials told Skip Prosser the ACC would raid the Big East to keep him from going to Pitt, months before the raid happened ...
Careful, this is how stuff can get out of hand. The article simply said "people at Wake Forest," not Wake Forest officials as you put it. For all we know it could've been wistful alumni, other press junkies...
06-30-2005 03:30 PM
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JIM15068 Offline
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"Jake Carouthamel goes on record and states that if this group expands to 16, he will resign his post as AD at Syracuse. Gene DiFillippo echoes those sentiments."

I'm still waiting for DeFillippo to prove he's a man of his word. :bang:
06-30-2005 03:44 PM
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Gunner, so now you're speculating that wistful alumni or press junkies knew the ACC was going to raid the Big East ... but Mike Tranghese and the rest of the conference's leadership had no idea? Maybe it really wasn't actual Wake Forest "officials" who gave Coach Prosser the lowdown, but for him to take it seriously enough to turn down a job it seemed like he was taking, the information darn well had to come from someone in the know. I highly doubt someone like Coach Prosser would base his career decisions on the heresay of wistful alumni or press junkies.
06-30-2005 03:55 PM
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06-30-2005 05:49 PM
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Krocker Krapp Wrote:Gunner, so now you're speculating that wistful alumni or press junkies knew the ACC was going to raid the Big East ... but Mike Tranghese and the rest of the conference's leadership had no idea? Maybe it really wasn't actual Wake Forest "officials" who gave Coach Prosser the lowdown, but for him to take it seriously enough to turn down a job it seemed like he was taking, the information darn well had to come from someone in the know. I highly doubt someone like Coach Prosser would base his career decisions on the heresay of wistful alumni or press junkies.
Thank you for bringing these points out Krocker krapp. No matter how anyone tries to spin it, the acc and BC got a public relations blackeye for their ruthless behavior in their expansion moves. Everyone knows it.
06-30-2005 06:08 PM
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I mean so what.....BC did what they had to do....i wish WVU would have been part of the ACC...
it's over....now it's time to build the BE once again....there will probably be one more raid.....SU or Pitt or Rutgers or UCONN or WVU or Louisville....then we will build again....there is nothing that can be done....BE was preceived as weak and still is....there will be one more raid.....as long as BE stays the 6th best conference that's all that matters in the current BCS configuration...I don't blame BC, MIami, or VA Tech....

at least we (NBE) still have bcs....that's all that's matter...we are a major conference despite what espn or anyone else states...if it were not so we would have lost the bcs...and that's for sure.....
06-30-2005 08:15 PM
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JIM15068 Wrote:I'm still waiting for DeFillippo to prove he's a man of his word. :bang:
Nice one, JIM. :D

Krocker Krapp Wrote:Gunner, so now you're speculating that wistful alumni or press junkies knew the ACC was going to raid the Big East ... but Mike Tranghese and the rest of the conference's leadership had no idea?

Krocker, I'M not trying to be speculative about anything in that particular instance, but it sounded to me like you were. Until that reporter offers a name, it's anyone's guess. As far as Mike Tranghese and the BE knowing/not knowing about things, again I can't say for sure. If they didn't know about this stuff then the BE needs to improve in understanding the needs of its members so they feel a need to look for a new conference home. If they did then shame on the BE for not taking better or faster action.

And from down in the ATL, it never sounded like Prosser was going to leave. I don't even know if he was formally interviewed but from what I recall neither I nor my relatives in Raleigh and Philly thought he would take the job. I agree someone should not be stupid enough to "base his career decisions on the heresay of wistful alumni or press junkies," but it's not exactly like the cupboard is bare at Wake Forest nor would it be a new precedent if powerful alumni and schools supporters tossed around rumors and innuendo to make their schools sound better then others. Happens all the time in recruiting, regrettably.

Hey, I've never claimed the ACC was completely naive or holy in how things went down. If they felt they had an offer that was too good to turn down, then they could've made it more openly and directly. Hell, as a GT fan I don't even want Miami in the ACC and as a Cuse fan I'm peeved BC did what they did and would rather see them in the BE. But the BE also has a history of internal problems and I am livid that MT let it reach this point.
07-01-2005 11:15 AM
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Hey Gunner,

If down in Atlanta people thought Prosser wouldn't leave Wake, then they weren't paying attention to the news reports coming out of both Pittsburgh and Winston-Salem (see Winston-Salem article below). Of course, we'll never know for sure how close Prosser was to leaving Wake - but the Panthers are to Prosser what Maryland is to Gary Williams and UNC is to Roy Williams. So while Wake may or may not be a better overall bb program than Pitt (I think it is - but I'm a BE fan with a little ACC bias in me), in this case, it is similar to GW leaving OSU (which was the better program than Maryland when he made the switch) for the Terps.

Reports had Wellman telling Prosser there might not even be a BE 5 years down the road, and I, for one believe them. It truly is the most reasonable explanation as to why Prosser would give up his 'dream' job.




The News & Record (Piedmont Triad, NC); 4/12/2003

WINSTON-SALEM -- Skip Prosser was late, and that had more than a few people concerned inside the halls of Wake Forest. Punctuality is one of the virtues of the 52-year-old basketball coach.

A lot of other virtues aren't as evident, but the lines of Prosser's face the last few days suggested he had explored them all. His day began with a silent prayer, and it ended with his prayer being answered in a loud congregational gathering at Wake Forest late Friday afternoon.

There was no epiphany in between.

Prosser will stay on as coach of the Demon Deacons. He decided to remain in Winston-Salem instead of going home again, home to his beloved Pittsburgh. He tried to smile Friday, and it was hard. He appeared to have little energy left after an exasperating process that left him sapped and at a loss for words.

"It's been a tough couple of days," he said.

Prosser appeared headed for the University of Pittsburgh, which had an opening and held it for the former Merchant Marine from Western Pennsylvania. News reports had him leaning and had him considering contracts and had him twisting over the decision and agonizing over the opportunity.

All might have been true. We'll never know.

Prosser considered it an ordeal he had to endure, and he considered it private. He addressed a gathering of reporters, and he answered questions, and he faced a contingent of fans, and he never once mentioned the Pittsburgh offer.

It was never about the job. He was a Pittsburgh guy being called home, and he knew he'd likely never get that call again. He agonized over it, twisted and turned and pondered the ramifications. At some point Friday morning, Prosser decided to stay.

He was asked if he felt relieved.

"That's not the right word," he said.

He was asked if he felt as if a burden had been lifted. He shrugged. Then he was asked about the process.

"Was it awful?"

"Yeah," he said. "It has been."

In the end he prayed about it. He asked his family about it. He talked to his players and his staff, and he listened. At 4:39 p.m., some 39 minutes late depending on whose clock he was on, Prosser walked into the Rovere Room near the Dave Budd Gymnasium inside the Kenneth D. Miller Center and raised his eyebrows.

He walked past a large group of supporters, some holding signs expressing love and other basketball sentiments, and he barely cracked a smile. Then he stopped and turned.

"Thank you," he said.

Prosser will be able to go home again, but not as the coach at Pitt. Presumably, his new 10-year contract with Wake Forest will keep him in Winston-Salem until the year 2013. Wake athletics director Ron Wellman cautioned that no one knows for sure, what with the nature of coaches and contracts in this day and age, but he was feeling a lot better about his basketball program Friday afternoon than he had for several days.

"I'm doing fine," he said. "Now."

Wellman knew this was no ordinary job offer, and he sweated Prosser's decision. He talked about trust, but he knew with the nature of coaches and contracts in this day and age, trust was a fault line more than a foothold.

He drew up the new contract for Prosser, starting it even before the call came from Pitt. But he knew no amount of years or money would sway his basketball coach. This wasn't about job security. This was about home.

For much of the period between last weekend and Friday evening, Wellman read the reports and tried to read his coach. The truth was that when Wellman got to work Friday, he still didn't know. The truth was, Prosser might not have either.

Prosser came to his decision quietly and asked there be no fanfare. He had been moved by the outpouring of support in the past few days, but he had also been moved by the awesome weight of his decision. Prosser turned down Pitt and said it wouldn't affect his love for Pittsburgh.

"What has happened in the last six days is nothing new," he said. "I've always felt special about Pittsburgh, and I hope Pittsburgh feels that way about me. That hasn't changed."

As it turned out, nothing changed at Wake Forest.

Skip Prosser, who quotes poets and historians to explain great victories and great virtues, had no words of wisdom left. The ordeal had taken too much from him.

"I was impaled on the horns of a dilemma," he said.


Cheers,
Neil
07-01-2005 12:13 PM
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GunnerFan Offline
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Good find, Neil. I stand corrected about how much was known. There is a chance our news reports were filtered via the traditional ACC sources. I was recalling Wes Durham, play-by-play guy of the Jackets mentioning that Prosser did like that Wake was a pure basketball school and was wondering if Pitts resurgence in football may take some enthusiasm from the basketball. Whatever the case may be, things are as they are.

Point conceded: Skip Prosser may well have been close to taking the Pitt offer and that something swayed him from accepting. :)
07-01-2005 12:40 PM
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Post: #20
 
Prosser may be getting that same job offer sooner rather than later. The football fervor at Pitt won't hurt basketball, but people are beginning to wonder about Dixon's ability to coach. It might be a little unfair so soon, but people don't want to slide back into basketball oblivion. Pitt wants to be excellent in both sports.
07-02-2005 01:22 AM
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