Mach thinks that if says "blame the Republicans" enough times, people actually will.

Dow is down over 500. Yet Obama blames everyone but himself.

I guess Barry never heard of Harry Truman.

(08-08-2011 01:30 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  Mach thinks that if says "blame the Republicans" enough times, people actually will.

I don't know; the idea that America doesn’t have to be governed for eternity as a debtor nation with a mammoth, out-of-control, ever-expanding government seems to be winning the day.

(08-08-2011 11:50 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-08-2011 11:44 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  GTS, you are living in fantasy land if you think the average american is paying anywhere near 50% of their income in total taxes.

If you have a source I will gladly apologize!

http://jeremysands.com/?p=130

Okay, I apologize. Your source definitely came up with a calculation stating it was more than 50%.

But sorry, I don't buy his conclusions for one minute. First off, he includes FICA withholding from your payroll which isn't a tax...and then he somehow comes up with a figure of $7,000+ for it on an average income of $55,000. The rate, at most is 7.65% which equates to only $4,200 anyway. Then he includes every potential possible hidden tax under the sun to get to his end game.

Got anything more credible from someone anybody has heard of?

You haven't heard of him?

FICA is not a tax? We pay it voluntarily? Last I heard it was a payroll tax. Simpletom must be at poverty wages.

My point is this. There were much better ways of making a point than cutting off your nose to spite your face. You don't dick with a credit rating. It was stupid. It was political. A price will be paid. Mark this date. It's the start of a waning cycle for the tea party. Stupid, Stupid , Stupid, to make your borrowing costs higher and that's exactly what this political stunt did. Come back in 6 years and we will see how smart the political climate was in the summer of 2011.

(08-08-2011 11:44 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  GTS, you are living in fantasy land if you think the average american is paying anywhere near 50% of their income in total taxes.

If you have a source I will gladly apologize!

That's the **** that needs to be changed. Those 49% of workers that pay ZERO income taxes need to start ponying the hell up.

(08-08-2011 02:02 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  My point is this. There were much better ways of making a point than cutting off your nose to spite your face. You don't dick with a credit rating. It was stupid. It was political. A price will be paid. Mark this date. It's the start of a waning cycle for the tea party. Stupid, Stupid , Stupid, to make your borrowing costs higher and that's exactly what this political stunt did. Come back in 6 years and we will see how smart the political climate was in the summer of 2011.

You know one way to combat higher borrowing costs? STOP BORROWING SO DAMN MUCH!

(08-08-2011 02:04 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(08-08-2011 11:44 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  GTS, you are living in fantasy land if you think the average american is paying anywhere near 50% of their income in total taxes.

If you have a source I will gladly apologize!

That's the **** that needs to be changed. Those 49% of workers that pay ZERO income taxes need to start ponying the hell up.

They have no skin in the game.

(08-08-2011 02:02 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  My point is this. There were much better ways of making a point than cutting off your nose to spite your face. You don't dick with a credit rating. It was stupid. It was political. A price will be paid. Mark this date. It's the start of a waning cycle for the tea party. Stupid, Stupid , Stupid, to make your borrowing costs higher and that's exactly what this political stunt did. Come back in 6 years and we will see how smart the political climate was in the summer of 2011.

Wrong. The debt ceiling was nothing more than a sideshow. If the U.S. would have missed the deadline, there were plenty of tax receipts coming in to fund the most sensitive needs of the gov't like social security, medicare, debt payments, and military ops. The gov't would have went into a partial shutdown until the issue was resolved.

The real issue has been staring us in the face for decades and decades - the gov't spending more money than they take in. This has been a recipe for disaster long in the making. What made the situation much worse over the past 3 years was to craft a $1 trillion stimulus that was not stimulative at all - it was welfare - and the failure of the senate to pass a budget for FY 2010. If a fortune 500 company fails to construct a budget for the upcoming year of operation, the ratings companies would skewer it. The real dysfunction in the gov't was the failure to pass a budget when the house, senate and presidency were all in the democrat camp. This is fundamental stuff that didn't get done, and that is the real problem.

If and when Obama loses in 2012 look out for complete racial anarchy. This is irrelevant to this thread but...that doesn't seem to matter to most of the Libs on here either.

miko................... Everything....... Everything today counters your point. The debt ceiling debate is precisely the reason we got the downgrade. Did you read the report and the paragraph on political climate? If you did nothing that you wrote up there would make sense.

If this has been a decade problem. My memory must be clouded around 1999. I thought Clinton balanced the budget and this was one argument for the Bush Tax Cuts. Hmmm must be confused.

(08-08-2011 02:32 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  If this has been a decade problem. My memory must be clouded around 1999. I thought Clinton balanced the budget and this was one argument for the Bush Tax Cuts. Hmmm must be confused.

IIRC, Clinton balanced the budget with what amounted to the largest tax increase in history. He didn't control spending.

(08-08-2011 02:30 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  miko................... Everything....... Everything today counters your point. The debt ceiling debate is precisely the reason we got the downgrade. Did you read the report and the paragraph on political climate? If you did nothing that you wrote up there would make sense.

Yes, I read it. But when the gov't is carrying a debt load that is 100% of GDP, then the country WILL get downgraded unless something drastic happens to change our current course. The debt ceiling increase does ZERO to alter the current trajectory of gov't spending, at least in a meaningful way.

(08-08-2011 02:30 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  miko................... Everything....... Everything today counters your point. The debt ceiling debate is precisely the reason we got the downgrade. Did you read the report and the paragraph on political climate? If you did nothing that you wrote up there would make sense.

The debt ceiling, that Obama and the Dems wanted raised, was raised. Afterwards, the S&P downgraded us because it damn sure looked as if the current Senate and President either want, or can't handle the damn financial crisis due to incompetence.

This is on the Dims. A f'n paltry 1 trillion dollar cut over 10 fuken years ain't **** when we're deficit spending over 150 billion PER MONTH.

Obama is toast.

(08-08-2011 02:37 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(08-08-2011 02:32 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  If this has been a decade problem. My memory must be clouded around 1999. I thought Clinton balanced the budget and this was one argument for the Bush Tax Cuts. Hmmm must be confused.

IIRC, Clinton balanced the budget with what amounted to the largest tax increase in history. He didn't control spending.

No, Clinton balanced the budget only because the economy was experiencing an unprecedented economic boom from the technology sector, which was fueled by the Fed via an excessively loose money supply. The Fed pumped up the tech stock bubble. It was all based on irrational exuberance...

(08-08-2011 11:27 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  If it was only about Lady Liberty instead of avoiding taxes. We are at a 60 year LOW in income tax rates. Say that over in your head ten times. 60 year low. That taxes is not a part of the solution is why we find ourselves here today. DOWNGRADED.


60 year low

60 year low

Mach, so where is the money going that we get to keep? That cash is most likely spent at the corner store, mall, 401k, or internet porn, and it being taxed each time it changes hands. Give it to the government and it goes into a black hole or to some union cubicle hamster.

(08-08-2011 02:40 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(08-08-2011 02:37 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(08-08-2011 02:32 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  If this has been a decade problem. My memory must be clouded around 1999. I thought Clinton balanced the budget and this was one argument for the Bush Tax Cuts. Hmmm must be confused.

IIRC, Clinton balanced the budget with what amounted to the largest tax increase in history. He didn't control spending.

No, Clinton balanced the budget only because the economy was experiencing an unprecedented economic boom from the technology sector, which was fueled by the Fed via an excessively loose money supply. The Fed pumped up the tech stock bubble. It was all based on irrational exuberance...

This. ...and then it burst. Governmental interference into the private market is always doomed to fail because it's hollow. It's using other people's money via taxation to pump up a certain segment. It may very well pump up that segment, but you just took spending power away from the taxpayers you stole from. If it wasn't due to taxes, but printed money, well, you just devalued the damn dollar. Great job, you blood-sucking ticks.