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Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
(08-04-2011 11:08 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  Probably trying to get the heck out of Illinois. Not too surprising. Lots of people talk about moving someplace warm.

That's why ASU was on my list.
08-04-2011 11:18 AM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
(08-04-2011 10:08 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(08-03-2011 10:16 AM)miko33 Wrote:  It won't for long. The Fed Gov't Debt is at a tipping point now that it's around 90 - 95% of GDP. The Fed Reserve will not pursue another quantitative easing approach. They realize that one more attempt will do nothing but make inflation go out of control. There's nothing more the Gov't can really do anymore. It's constrained.

The National Debt passed 100% of GDP this morning.

No as for a coming econmic boom, I have no doubt there will be one, but not in the near future. The liberal movement in this country has once again pushed us to the brink of massive economic ruin. Only this time it has been more successful than in the past. Any turnaround that leads to an economic improvement will come after painful but necessary measures are taken to reverse the course of this country and steer it away from a nanny-state it is becoming.

The govt is constrained? Thank goodness. I thought it was just doing whatever it wanted. The majority of people seeming to think the govt is constrained are unhappy liberals that wont call muslim extremist that are actively trying to kill Americans terrorists, but are more than willing to call conservative americans terrorists for doing the very job they were elected to do by their constituents..

My point was that with debt so high relative to GDP, the gov't cannot embark on a major stimulus package. I realize that current spending levels are going to continue until we get more conservatives elected in 2011 and especially 2012.
08-04-2011 11:20 AM
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200yrs2late Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
(08-04-2011 11:20 AM)miko33 Wrote:  
(08-04-2011 10:08 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(08-03-2011 10:16 AM)miko33 Wrote:  It won't for long. The Fed Gov't Debt is at a tipping point now that it's around 90 - 95% of GDP. The Fed Reserve will not pursue another quantitative easing approach. They realize that one more attempt will do nothing but make inflation go out of control. There's nothing more the Gov't can really do anymore. It's constrained.

The National Debt passed 100% of GDP this morning.

No as for a coming econmic boom, I have no doubt there will be one, but not in the near future. The liberal movement in this country has once again pushed us to the brink of massive economic ruin. Only this time it has been more successful than in the past. Any turnaround that leads to an economic improvement will come after painful but necessary measures are taken to reverse the course of this country and steer it away from a nanny-state it is becoming.

The govt is constrained? Thank goodness. I thought it was just doing whatever it wanted. The majority of people seeming to think the govt is constrained are unhappy liberals that wont call muslim extremist that are actively trying to kill Americans terrorists, but are more than willing to call conservative americans terrorists for doing the very job they were elected to do by their constituents..

My point was that with debt so high relative to GDP, the gov't cannot embark on a major stimulus package. I realize that current spending levels are going to continue until we get more conservatives elected in 2011 and especially 2012.

I understand and I wasn't trying to nitpick, just showing a little frustration as the markets slide this morning.
As far as another stimulus or quantitative easing, there are lots of things that go on behind the scenes or under different names that result in the same effect.
If you have some time, check this out....
Warning, not light reading! follow the link to zerohedge for the whole article.

Kinda explains how the govt could be spending all this money with so little to show for it.
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2011 12:11 PM by 200yrs2late.)
08-04-2011 12:00 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
(08-04-2011 09:00 AM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  
(08-03-2011 07:06 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  
(08-03-2011 05:26 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  One can only hope!

So then you acknowledge that Obama has increased taxes on Small Business then?

Bump. still waiting.

Sorry, was busy yesterday as my mom had surgery.

Small Business Health Care Tax Credit for Small Employers

Not to mention the 2% cut in SS taxes and the massive tax cut that was part of the stimulus. Obama also cut taxes on 1/1/11 with the continuation of his version of the Bush tax cuts.

We can debate the future effects of this legislation and as to whether the credits in place for small businesses will have their intended effect, but to blanketly act like Obama is this huge tax increaser is just plain incorrect.

Believe me, if he had raised taxes on corporations (or by closing loop holes) and by raising the top individual tax rate back to Clinton levels I would be jumping for joy as our deficit would be shrinking!

And to be correct, I don't actually write tax code. I am an analyst...basically I tell the programmers what to program and then I test and support it. I was a tax accountant for a couple of CPA's and did many tax returns, but that was over 10 years ago. I much prefer the not dealing with the public so directly!

Also, I am a BG fan because I was born there, but I did not attend there.

And to make this post more rambling, I work for a huge multi-national corporation with 55,000 employees in over 100 countries. Our US revenue alone last year was 13.1 billion. I see first hand how the corporate culture squeezes its employees by having fewer and asking for more work...all the while continuing to make money hand over fist.
08-04-2011 12:14 PM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
(08-04-2011 12:14 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Small Business Health Care Tax Credit for Small Employers

True or false, even with the credit, their costs are still going up because of Healthcare? I'll save you some time, it's true. This credit also doesn't deal with the other taxes listed above by IMATY

Quote:Not to mention the 2% cut in SS taxes and the massive tax cut that was part of the stimulus.

You mean the cut in the payroll tax that was not at all massive and expires in December?

Quote:Obama also cut taxes on 1/1/11 with the continuation of his version of the Bush tax cuts.

Wonderful myth. It was played up by the media so much not surprised you think it's true. Obama extended the Bush tax rates. There was no cut.

Quote:We can debate the future effects of this legislation and as to whether the credits in place for small businesses will have their intended effect, but to blanketly act like Obama is this huge tax increaser is just plain incorrect.

Oh, so you're qualifying it now from your original implication that he hadn't raised small business taxes at all to he hasn't raised them a "huge" amount.

Let's also not forget his excise tax on high value health insurance, tax on tanning salons, increased cigarette tax, Medicare taxes on investment income, higher medicare taxes on individual income.

Quote:Believe me, if he had raised taxes on corporations (or by closing loop holes) and by raising the top individual tax rate back to Clinton levels I would be jumping for joy as our deficit would be shrinking!

Deluded point of view. Doing so would put more people out of work, thus decreasing your tax base thereby shrinking your tax revenues. Yes I realize you liberals are willing to have massive unemployment if it means more money to the government, but the rest of us realize the implications of doing so during a recession (which is what we are now back in).
08-04-2011 12:31 PM
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Rebel
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Post: #46
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
Democrats remind me of women.

F: "Honey, I saved us money!"

M: "How did you do that?"

F: "I bought a new pair of shoes ON SALE!"

M: "Were you going to buy them anyway?"

F: "No. Didn't need them, but since they were on sale, I saved us money".

M: "Still not getting where you saved us money. We're now out money we didn't have to purchase shoes you didn't need. Doesn't matter what amount you saved out of the money you spent needlessly."
08-04-2011 12:37 PM
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I'mMoreAwesomeThanYou Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
SNAP!!!!!!!!
08-04-2011 12:39 PM
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200yrs2late Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
(08-04-2011 12:37 PM)Rebel Wrote:  Democrats remind me of women.

F: "Honey, I saved us money!"

M: "How did you do that?"

F: "I bought a new pair of shoes ON SALE!"

M: "Were you going to buy them anyway?"

F: "No. Didn't need them, but since they were on sale, I saved us money".

M: "Still not getting where you saved us money. We're now out money we didn't have to purchase shoes you didn't need. Doesn't matter what amount you saved out of the money you spent needlessly."

Best analogy I've seen yet.
08-04-2011 12:48 PM
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boss man Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
(08-04-2011 09:00 AM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  
(08-03-2011 07:06 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  
(08-03-2011 05:26 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  One can only hope!

So then you acknowledge that Obama has increased taxes on Small Business then?

Bump. still waiting.

Bump for a 3rd time as the DOW falls 350 points at 200pm EST.

The COTUS economy keeps rolling right along.

Back on point, the tax hikes in ObamaCare is off the hinges. Sad. It is a MAJOR reason companies are hoarding their profits and sitting on the cash. They are basically waiting to see what happens in November 2012.

Redwing Tom, please grow a pair and answer the question.
08-04-2011 01:00 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
(08-04-2011 12:31 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  You mean the cut in the payroll tax that was not at all massive and expires in December?

Are you kidding me? 2% of basically every dollar paid in a wage is not a huge amount? However, the 2% cut doesn't apply to the employer match.

(08-04-2011 12:31 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  Wonderful myth. It was played up by the media so much not surprised you think it's true. Obama extended the Bush tax rates. There was no cut.

This it not a myth. The Bush tax cuts were passed by budget reconciliation. They were required by law to expire on 12/31/10. Yes, it is true that the legislation passed under Obama kept the rates as they were under Bush, but this was new legislation that was required to be passed or the rates would have returned to Clinton levels. This fact is not in dispute. And actually, the media continues to call them the Bush tax cuts never mentioning this expiration. I would prefer they call them the Obama tax cuts as he owns them!

(08-04-2011 12:31 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  Let's also not forget his excise tax on high value health insurance, tax on tanning salons, increased cigarette tax, Medicare taxes on investment income, higher medicare taxes on individual income.

The taxes on tanning salons and on cigarettes aren't business taxes. They are consumer taxes.

In addition, the increased medicare taxes (which as you state are not business taxes) don't start until 2013. Meaning they will likely get postponed before then.
(This post was last modified: 08-05-2011 09:45 AM by Redwingtom.)
08-05-2011 09:44 AM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
(08-05-2011 09:44 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This it not a myth. The Bush tax cuts were passed by budget reconciliation. They were required by law to expire on 12/31/10. Yes, it is true that the legislation passed under Obama kept the rates as they were under Bush, but this was new legislation that was required to be passed or the rates would have returned to Clinton levels. This fact is not in dispute. And actually, the media continues to call them the Bush tax cuts never mentioning this expiration. I would prefer they call them the Obama tax cuts as he owns them!

You claimed, falsely, that Obama cut taxes on 1/1/11. Taxes were not cut. What someone paid in taxes on 12/31/10 is what they paid on 1/1/11. That is a continuation of the rates that had been in effect for close to a decade. You can play cute with semantics all you want in an effort to make it seem like Obama cut taxes on 1/1/11, but he did not. To claim otherwise is an outright lie.

Quote:There has never (at least not in my lifetime) been a limit on wages subject to medicare tax.

Learn to read. I said medicare taxes on investment income, which until Obamacare had never had them. I said higher medicare taxes on individual income to the tune of .9%.

Given that you failed to read for comprehension the rest of your tax speech is meaningless.

Quote:And the taxes on tanning salons and on cigarettes aren't business taxes. They are consumer taxes.

You claimed it was wrong to portray Obama as a tax increaser. I posted both as further evidence you are deluded or dangerously misinformed.

Quote:In addition, the increased medicare taxes (which as you state are not business taxes) don't start until 2013. Meaning they will likely get postponed before then.

Until then they are new taxes Obama has imposed on small business. Your fairy tale about them getting postponed does not change that fact. He has also continually stated he wants to raise income taxes.

His is, in no uncertain terms, a raiser of taxes in spite of your claims to the contrary. Those are the facts, they can't be disputed, and it's pathetic and intellectually bankrupt to try.
08-05-2011 09:55 AM
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I'mMoreAwesomeThanYou Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
I guess he thinks when POTUS says "its time to eat your peas" that it doesn't mean higher taxes...Everyone in the nation is eating their peas. Washington are the only ones who aren't.
08-05-2011 10:22 AM
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Post: #53
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
Also...The regulatory burden placed on business by the Obama administration is crippling our economy. There's more than one way to skin a cat...so sayeth the chosen one.

The burden of regulation on Americans increased at an alarming rate in fiscal year 2010. Based on data from the Government Accountability Office, an unprecedented 43 major new regulations were imposed by Washington. And based on reports from government regulators themselves, the total cost of these rules topped $26.5 billion, far more than any other year for which records are available. These costs will affect Americans in many ways, raising the price of the cars they buy and the food they eat, while destroying an untold number of jobs. With the enactment of new health care laws, financial regulations, and plans for rulemaking in other areas, the regulatory burden on Americans is set to increase even further in the coming year.

The cost of regulation has often been called a hidden tax. Although the total does not appear anywhere in the federal budget, the multitude of rules, restrictions, and mandates imposes a heavy burden on Americans and the U.S. economy. According to a report recently released by the Small Business Administration, total regulatory costs amount to about $1.75 trillion annually, nearly twice as much as all individual income taxes collected last year.

Not all regulations are unwarranted, of course. Most Americans would agree on the need for protections against terrorism, although the extent of such rules is certainly subject to debate. Moreover, regulations are not necessarily inconsistent with free-market principles. Some, such as anti-fraud measures, protect the rights of consumers. But there is always a cost. And, for the same reasons that federal spending is reported, so, too, should regulatory costs.

This regulatory burden has been increasing for some time. During the presidency of George W. Bush, which many mistakenly consider as a period of deregulation, the regulatory burden increased by more than $70 billion, according to agency regulatory impact reports. In FY 2009, which spanned the Bush and Obama Administrations, rulemaking proceeded at a nearly unprecedented rate, with the addition of 23 major rules imposing $13 billion in new costs.

But the available evidence indicates that regulatory costs increased last year at a far greater pace. According to data from the Government Accountability Office, federal agencies promulgated 43 rules during the fiscal year ending September 30, 2010, that impose significant burdens on the private sector. The total costs for these rules were estimated by the regulators themselves at some $28 billion, the highest level since at least 1981, the earliest date for which figures are available. Fifteen of the 43 major rules issued last during the fiscal year involved financial regulation. Another five stem from the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act adopted by Congress in early 2010. Ten others come from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), including the first mandatory reporting of “greenhouse gas” emissions and $10.8 billion in new automotive fuel economy standards (adopted jointly with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)). Overall, counting the fuel standards, the EPA is responsible for the lion’s share of the reported regulatory costs—some $23.2 billion.
08-05-2011 10:31 AM
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I'mMoreAwesomeThanYou Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
Robert, I realize with your limited unserstanding of economics the above post may be a little hard to understand so here it is for you in simple terms...I'm smarter than you. Regulations ARE TAXES and OBABBA is murdering the American dream!

AW....SNAP!! GET ON MY LEVEL!!!04-rock
(This post was last modified: 08-05-2011 11:20 AM by I'mMoreAwesomeThanYou.)
08-05-2011 11:20 AM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
Niner, how are increased medicare taxes on individuals making in excess of $250,000 (or whatever the threshold is) a business tax increase?

I never said (or meant to imply) that Obama hasn't raised any taxes...he has (mostly future ones included in Obamacare) but his cuts to individual taxes have been immediate and not in dispute...or do you still maintain that there were not tax cuts in the stimulus package?

And we can go round and round all you want, but it is a FACT that the Bush tax cuts expired on 12/31/10. The tax legislation for the year beginning 1/1/11 WAS signed into law by President Obama. And believe me, I am none to pleased about him doing so!

And yes, you are correct about the medicare taxes. I corrected my original post as I misread yours at first.
(This post was last modified: 08-05-2011 12:48 PM by Redwingtom.)
08-05-2011 12:47 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
08-05-2011 12:50 PM
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Post: #57
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
A stimulus isn't a tax cut.
08-05-2011 12:51 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
08-05-2011 12:52 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
(08-05-2011 12:51 PM)Rebel Wrote:  A stimulus isn't a tax cut.

You're an idiot. The $700 billion stimulus package was comprised of new spending and tax cuts to the tune of $282 billion.
(This post was last modified: 08-05-2011 12:53 PM by Redwingtom.)
08-05-2011 12:53 PM
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Post: #60
RE: Are we seeing a replacy of the economic mess of '81 and '82?
(08-05-2011 12:53 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(08-05-2011 12:51 PM)Rebel Wrote:  A stimulus isn't a tax cut.

You're an idiot. The stimulus package was comprised of new spending and tax cuts to the tune of $282 billion.

Is it working? No?

Now who's the idiot.
08-05-2011 12:53 PM
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