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Obama Pushes $600 Billion in New Taxes in Debt Talks
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Obama Pushes $600 Billion in New Taxes in Debt Talks
(06-28-2011 09:51 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  Are you serious? **** off. Yes I make enough to pay federal income taxes.

... drivil ...

You missed the point... Even if we returned to Clinton level tax rates the government has grown so much under Bush and Obama (more than doubled) that its a drop in the bucket.

The problem is not revenue (which is higher than 1999) the problem is spending (which is astronomically higher since 1999)
06-28-2011 02:08 PM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Obama Pushes $600 Billion in New Taxes in Debt Talks
(06-28-2011 01:56 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  
(06-28-2011 01:08 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  
(06-28-2011 11:07 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  
(06-28-2011 10:59 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-28-2011 10:38 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  I say we do not raise the debt ceiling until a plan is in place to start to PAY DOWN THE DEBT. We could save 20% to 30% by going back to 2008 gov't spending levels.
Is that what WND told you to say?
I'm pretty sure it was Rush 03-lmfao

I don't recall anyone else saying it, except me.

I wish I would have said it!

I'm going to plagiarize it.
06-28-2011 04:51 PM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Obama Pushes $600 Billion in New Taxes in Debt Talks
(06-28-2011 04:51 PM)Paul M Wrote:  
(06-28-2011 01:56 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  
(06-28-2011 01:08 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  
(06-28-2011 11:07 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  
(06-28-2011 10:59 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Is that what WND told you to say?
I'm pretty sure it was Rush 03-lmfao

I don't recall anyone else saying it, except me.

I wish I would have said it!

I'm going to plagiarize it.

Have at it. One thing. You would know they were serious as a heart attack if someone would put forth that proposition. We will have to pay that money back.
06-28-2011 07:07 PM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Obama Pushes $600 Billion in New Taxes in Debt Talks
Today, a new poll shows Obabba hits new low. Only 37% approve of his handling of the economy.
06-28-2011 07:27 PM
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BeliefBlazer Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Obama Pushes $600 Billion in New Taxes in Debt Talks
15-20% tax for all people and businesses making over 40k. No tax breaks, deductions, or exemptions. Wouldn't that bring in substantially more revenue than current tax policy?
06-28-2011 08:30 PM
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boss man Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Obama Pushes $600 Billion in New Taxes in Debt Talks
Truthfully, ditching the current inome tax approach and committing to the Fair Tax would greatly enhance revenues. Even criminals have to eat and buy things. Plus, the Fair Tax is colelcted by the states so the entire IRS is abolished. Talk about a WIN-WIN!
06-29-2011 03:42 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Obama Pushes $600 Billion in New Taxes in Debt Talks
It's foolish to talk about tax rates unless you also talk about how you define income. If you try to get there by raising rates, at the top end those higher rates scare investors away, and with them go jobs. If you get there by broadening the definition of income (eliminating loopholes, for one thing, but not limited to that), you can actually lower rates and generate larger revenues. And when you do that, you reduce the incentives to hide income, to play non-prouctive or counter-productive tax avoidance games, or to ship economic activity and jobs to lower-tax jurisdictions.

The argument about how much higher tax rates were before Reagan ignores this reality. Rates were higher, but off the same facts you would get a significantly lower taxable income than under today's law and regulations. What Reagan did, particularly in the 1986 law developed largely by Bill Bradley, was to trade lower rates for broader definition of income. That's how he managed to lower the top marginal rate from 70% to 28% without a huge adverse effect on tax revenues. I was preparing a lot of tax returns back in those days, and all of my clients were in essentially the same place after the Reagan tax cuts as they were before, becuase the elimination of deductions had just about offset the decrease in rates.

What that did was to put us ahead of the rest of the world in our ability to attract businesses with lower taxes. In 1989, at the end of Reagan's presidency, our top marginal corporate tax rate, for example, was 8% lower than the average developed country. Economic propsperity followed, and continued under Clinton, whose tax rate increases were so minor when compared to the rate cuts under Reagan that the entire process can be considered as a single integrated whole. The rest of the world saw what happened to our economy under Reagan and Clinton, and did the same. By 1999, nearing the end of Clinton's presidency, our top corporate rate had not changed but it was now equal to the average for developed countries. The "Bush tax cuts" did not touch the corporate rate, but other countries kept lowering theirs, so that by 2009, the end of Shrub's presidency, our top corporate rate was now 12% higher than the average developed country. Without changing a thing, we lost 20% in comparative tax advantage over a 20-year period. If you don't think that cost us jobs, then you weren't paying attention to GE, among others.

We are in competition with the rest of the world for the industries--and jobs--of the future. We have to win some battles against some strong and motivated competitors in order to maintain our economic position. We can't beat China on wages. In order to win the war, we have to win some battles somewhere. And taxes are one battle we can win.

What do I favor? Lower and flatter taxes across a broader definition of taxable income, and the addition of a consumption tax. The argument against that approach is that it's "regressive." But I happen to cling to this quaint notion that the well-being of the average lower or middle income class person is determined a lot more by whether or not he or she has a job than it is by his or her marginal income tax rate, and way more than it is by SOMEBODY ELSE's marginal income tax rate. And I also believe that raising taxes on investment income is a good way to chase jobs away, and lowering taxes on investment income is a good way to bring jobs here. I think the world economic experience over the last 50 years supports that. And I know Europe--socialist Europe--believes that, because their tax rates reflect those opinons. They have a broader and more comprehensive welfare safety net than we do, and they underwrite it with a substantially more regressive tax structure than we have--including consumption taxes. That's a deal I'd make if we could get it here.
(This post was last modified: 06-29-2011 04:02 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
06-29-2011 04:01 PM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Obama Pushes $600 Billion in New Taxes in Debt Talks
Saw this todau and thought it was good.

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity, by legislating the wealth out of prosperity.


2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.


3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.


4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.


5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work, because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
06-29-2011 04:40 PM
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