RE: Do any Christians on here believe this about Evolution?
(06-21-2011 10:09 PM)Native Georgian Wrote: The Bible does not say how old the earth is, and from a Christian or Biblical point of view, it doesn't matter. Thousands of years old or billions of years old, or somewhere in between: So What?
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."
That, probably the best-known English-translation of Genesis 1:1, is the most audacious claim in the Bible. Once a person accepts and believes that there is a God with the power to do that, all the other "weird" stuff in the Bible (virgin birth, resurrection, etc.) seems like pretty small potatos in comparison, if you ask me. And determining the exact "age" of the planet is even smaller than most.
My background is RCC. The official position of the RCC is that the bible is infallible in matters of faith and salvation. So when the authors of the various books were inspired to write, God gave them only those words pertaining to salvation. This means that God did not intend for the bible to be used as a science, economics, history or anthropology text book. Although the words of salvation are woven within the bible, the sacred authors are still free to write in their own style. Also, their cultures were completely different than ours today, and the writing styles used in those days were meant for the audience in that time. In my opinion, a lot of the bible is misunderstood by people today. For example apocalyptic writing was not unique to Daniel and Revelations, it was a common writing style for the periods when those books were written. I believe that the idea that the world was made in 6 days with one day of rest was a convenient way for the authors to give the people an account of creation that they could understand given their time period AND it had an additional point of reinforcing the idea of how they should live their lives from week to week (always worship on the Sabbath and keep it holy).
RE: Do any Christians on here believe this about Evolution?
Those who advocate macro-evolutionary theory typically do not state that man evolved from ape; it is stated that man and ape had a common ancestor. However many prominent theists, Michael Behe comes to mind, believe in common descent. Personally, I haven't concentrated on this area of debate.
The Origin of Life (OOL) debate is riveting as scientific disciplines other than Biology are now involved. The focus previously was on the origin of matter. Today the question is this: Can natural selection coupled with random mutation create Complex Specified Information (CSI)?
I respect the viewpoint of my atheists brothers. But from a philosophical and scientific point of view, I will not surrender the intellectual high ground to you, especially now. Not based on what science is discovering almost daily.
RE: Do any Christians on here believe this about Evolution?
(06-21-2011 08:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: The more science discovers, the more support there is for the concept that there's a detailed plan, and that requires an omnipotent planner.
Clearly, that there is a god would not necessarily prove that it is the Christian God. But that's the one that works for me.
Indeed. The increasingly intrinsic complexity and extreme detail that is discovered by modern science - including that of evolution, DNA codes, genomes, etc, - doesn't necessarily disprove an omnipotent creator (imho, of course).
I've mentioned this elsewhere, but you can easily find academic books and cable programs on NatGeo complete with reputable scientists from places like MIT talking about string theory and quantum mechanics: Theoretical topics include parallel worlds, subatomic particles existing in multiple places at once, alternate realities, 10 extra dimensions beyond the three we exist in, universes outside our universe with its own laws of physics, etc. This would be sci-fi "crazy talk" just a half century ago, but is now a serious topic among many professors and scientists, a good number I assume who would call themselves atheist.
If even half of that is true at some level, it's not a giant leap of, um, faith that spiritual realms, "the other side", etc, exist.
RE: Do any Christians on here believe this about Evolution?
(06-22-2011 08:24 AM)miko33 Wrote:
(06-21-2011 10:09 PM)Native Georgian Wrote: The Bible does not say how old the earth is, and from a Christian or Biblical point of view, it doesn't matter. Thousands of years old or billions of years old, or somewhere in between: So What?
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."
That, probably the best-known English-translation of Genesis 1:1, is the most audacious claim in the Bible. Once a person accepts and believes that there is a God with the power to do that, all the other "weird" stuff in the Bible (virgin birth, resurrection, etc.) seems like pretty small potatos in comparison, if you ask me. And determining the exact "age" of the planet is even smaller than most.
My background is RCC. The official position of the RCC is that the bible is infallible in matters of faith and salvation. So when the authors of the various books were inspired to write, God gave them only those words pertaining to salvation. This means that God did not intend for the bible to be used as a science, economics, history or anthropology text book. Although the words of salvation are woven within the bible, the sacred authors are still free to write in their own style. Also, their cultures were completely different than ours today, and the writing styles used in those days were meant for the audience in that time. In my opinion, a lot of the bible is misunderstood by people today. For example apocalyptic writing was not unique to Daniel and Revelations, it was a common writing style for the periods when those books were written. I believe that the idea that the world was made in 6 days with one day of rest was a convenient way for the authors to give the people an account of creation that they could understand given their time period AND it had an additional point of reinforcing the idea of how they should live their lives from week to week (always worship on the Sabbath and keep it holy).
I find it very hard to take everything written by people that believed the earth was flat verbatim. I agree with you. These people wrote in the manner of the day based upon their limited knowledge and used many allegories to explain things. Does this make the writings less important?...No. I have though..no problem with biblical literalists other than not wanting one in a position of governmental power.
RE: Do any Christians on here believe this about Evolution?
(06-21-2011 08:17 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: To me, evolution proves the existence of God. I actually don't see how you can be both a scientist and an atheist. The more science discovers, the more support there is for the concept that there's a detailed plan, and that requires an omnipotent planner.
Clearly, that there is a god would not necessarily prove that it is the Christian God. But that's the one that works for me.
Seems like it would be pretty easy to be a scientist and an atheist.
RE: Do any Christians on here believe this about Evolution?
(06-22-2011 08:24 AM)miko33 Wrote:
(06-21-2011 10:09 PM)Native Georgian Wrote: The Bible does not say how old the earth is, and from a Christian or Biblical point of view, it doesn't matter. Thousands of years old or billions of years old, or somewhere in between: So What?
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."
That, probably the best-known English-translation of Genesis 1:1, is the most audacious claim in the Bible. Once a person accepts and believes that there is a God with the power to do that, all the other "weird" stuff in the Bible (virgin birth, resurrection, etc.) seems like pretty small potatos in comparison, if you ask me. And determining the exact "age" of the planet is even smaller than most.
My background is RCC. The official position of the RCC is that the bible is infallible in matters of faith and salvation. So when the authors of the various books were inspired to write, God gave them only those words pertaining to salvation. This means that God did not intend for the bible to be used as a science, economics, history or anthropology text book. Although the words of salvation are woven within the bible, the sacred authors are still free to write in their own style. Also, their cultures were completely different than ours today, and the writing styles used in those days were meant for the audience in that time. In my opinion, a lot of the bible is misunderstood by people today. For example apocalyptic writing was not unique to Daniel and Revelations, it was a common writing style for the periods when those books were written. I believe that the idea that the world was made in 6 days with one day of rest was a convenient way for the authors to give the people an account of creation that they could understand given their time period AND it had an additional point of reinforcing the idea of how they should live their lives from week to week (always worship on the Sabbath and keep it holy).
I find it hard to believe The Bible could be called infallible on any subject if the time lines were exaggerations or illustrations. The 6 days for creation are not the same measure as 3 days before Christ's resurrection or the 40 days of rain for the flood.
RE: Do any Christians on here believe this about Evolution?
(06-22-2011 08:55 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:
(06-22-2011 08:24 AM)miko33 Wrote:
(06-21-2011 10:09 PM)Native Georgian Wrote: The Bible does not say how old the earth is, and from a Christian or Biblical point of view, it doesn't matter. Thousands of years old or billions of years old, or somewhere in between: So What?
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."
That, probably the best-known English-translation of Genesis 1:1, is the most audacious claim in the Bible. Once a person accepts and believes that there is a God with the power to do that, all the other "weird" stuff in the Bible (virgin birth, resurrection, etc.) seems like pretty small potatos in comparison, if you ask me. And determining the exact "age" of the planet is even smaller than most.
My background is RCC. The official position of the RCC is that the bible is infallible in matters of faith and salvation. So when the authors of the various books were inspired to write, God gave them only those words pertaining to salvation. This means that God did not intend for the bible to be used as a science, economics, history or anthropology text book. Although the words of salvation are woven within the bible, the sacred authors are still free to write in their own style. Also, their cultures were completely different than ours today, and the writing styles used in those days were meant for the audience in that time. In my opinion, a lot of the bible is misunderstood by people today. For example apocalyptic writing was not unique to Daniel and Revelations, it was a common writing style for the periods when those books were written. I believe that the idea that the world was made in 6 days with one day of rest was a convenient way for the authors to give the people an account of creation that they could understand given their time period AND it had an additional point of reinforcing the idea of how they should live their lives from week to week (always worship on the Sabbath and keep it holy).
I find it very hard to take everything written by people that believed the earth was flat verbatim. I agree with you. These people wrote in the manner of the day based upon their limited knowledge and used many allegories to explain things. Does this make the writings less important?...No. I have though..no problem with biblical literalists other than not wanting one in a position of governmental power.
If The Bible were written by people based upon "THEIR" limited knowledge, wouldn't that make their writings complete fiction with no divine knowledge or inspiration.
RE: Do any Christians on here believe this about Evolution?
(06-22-2011 09:12 AM)DrTorch Wrote:
(06-22-2011 08:55 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote: I find it very hard to take everything written by people that believed the earth was flat verbatim.
Very few people ever believed the Earth was flat. Aritosthenes determined the circumference of the Earth, and got a very good estimate.
Anyway, that's a general misnomer.
I don't know...There are bible scriptures that support that claim..."4 corners of the earth".."heavens tent"..."earth spread out like wax under a seal"....that type of stuff. I doubt that very few people had any concept of the physical world beyond their immediate vicinity. From what I gather most people in biblical times thought of the earth as round..but disk like, not spherical.
RE: Do any Christians on here believe this about Evolution?
(06-22-2011 07:14 PM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:
(06-22-2011 08:55 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:
(06-22-2011 08:24 AM)miko33 Wrote:
(06-21-2011 10:09 PM)Native Georgian Wrote: The Bible does not say how old the earth is, and from a Christian or Biblical point of view, it doesn't matter. Thousands of years old or billions of years old, or somewhere in between: So What?
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."
That, probably the best-known English-translation of Genesis 1:1, is the most audacious claim in the Bible. Once a person accepts and believes that there is a God with the power to do that, all the other "weird" stuff in the Bible (virgin birth, resurrection, etc.) seems like pretty small potatos in comparison, if you ask me. And determining the exact "age" of the planet is even smaller than most.
My background is RCC. The official position of the RCC is that the bible is infallible in matters of faith and salvation. So when the authors of the various books were inspired to write, God gave them only those words pertaining to salvation. This means that God did not intend for the bible to be used as a science, economics, history or anthropology text book. Although the words of salvation are woven within the bible, the sacred authors are still free to write in their own style. Also, their cultures were completely different than ours today, and the writing styles used in those days were meant for the audience in that time. In my opinion, a lot of the bible is misunderstood by people today. For example apocalyptic writing was not unique to Daniel and Revelations, it was a common writing style for the periods when those books were written. I believe that the idea that the world was made in 6 days with one day of rest was a convenient way for the authors to give the people an account of creation that they could understand given their time period AND it had an additional point of reinforcing the idea of how they should live their lives from week to week (always worship on the Sabbath and keep it holy).
I find it very hard to take everything written by people that believed the earth was flat verbatim. I agree with you. These people wrote in the manner of the day based upon their limited knowledge and used many allegories to explain things. Does this make the writings less important?...No. I have though..no problem with biblical literalists other than not wanting one in a position of governmental power.
If The Bible were written by people based upon "THEIR" limited knowledge, wouldn't that make their writings complete fiction with no divine knowledge or inspiration.
I did not say that there was no divine inspiration. I believe there was.
The stories were told in the manner of the day. I see no contradiction.
06-23-2011 08:22 AM
SumOfAllFears
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