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California hits a new low
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #41
RE: California hits a new low
(06-10-2011 10:21 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(06-10-2011 12:48 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-09-2011 10:40 AM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  I think we should do away with minimum wage. Not for first responders, but for Wal-mart, McDonalds, Subway, and gas station type jobs. Let the market determine what a high school kid should get paid. And yes I know that there are people who stock shelves at Wal-mart as their career, but that doesn't mean they should be paid more than the college kid working over at Target doing it as part time work. I have no problem with first responders making $50-$75K depending on experience and location. I think that is fair for the training, knowledge, and risk their job entails.
The markets wouldn't determine a damn thing. It would be the corporations determining the wages. THis is why 'Fo and the other nuts on here that think like him live in a fantasy world. Maybe you should try working that Covo gig you used to have at $3.00 an hour(or less)? I am sure you would have been delighted.
Problem is, the market has determined that stagehands make around $15 an hour. I don't work any union calls and get paid from $13-33 per hour. So the market did determine that wage, which is fair.
Did the market really set those wages or was it something else? In this case, Union wages proped up your wages. You take away the Union and who calls the shots when it comes to wages? It certainly isn't the market.
06-11-2011 03:11 AM
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BleedsHuskieRed Offline
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Post: #42
RE: California hits a new low
(06-11-2011 03:11 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-10-2011 10:21 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(06-10-2011 12:48 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-09-2011 10:40 AM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  I think we should do away with minimum wage. Not for first responders, but for Wal-mart, McDonalds, Subway, and gas station type jobs. Let the market determine what a high school kid should get paid. And yes I know that there are people who stock shelves at Wal-mart as their career, but that doesn't mean they should be paid more than the college kid working over at Target doing it as part time work. I have no problem with first responders making $50-$75K depending on experience and location. I think that is fair for the training, knowledge, and risk their job entails.
The markets wouldn't determine a damn thing. It would be the corporations determining the wages. THis is why 'Fo and the other nuts on here that think like him live in a fantasy world. Maybe you should try working that Covo gig you used to have at $3.00 an hour(or less)? I am sure you would have been delighted.
Problem is, the market has determined that stagehands make around $15 an hour. I don't work any union calls and get paid from $13-33 per hour. So the market did determine that wage, which is fair.
Did the market really set those wages or was it something else? In this case, Union wages proped up your wages. You take away the Union and who calls the shots when it comes to wages? It certainly isn't the market.
Like I said, I don't work for a union or work any union calls. They can pay me whatever they want. Thing is, they pay me for my skill set. I know how to run a sound system, they are willing to pay for someone who knows how to do that. They want someone who can fill in and run concert lighting, they pay me for that. And they pay well for that. Many places I work the union doesn't even reach to so union's "propping up wages" has nothing to do with it.
06-11-2011 08:34 AM
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: California hits a new low
(06-11-2011 03:11 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Did the market really set those wages or was it something else? In this case, Union wages proped up your wages.

And propped up operating costs and ultimately the cost of the tickets which YOU pay.
06-11-2011 09:44 AM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #44
RE: California hits a new low
(06-11-2011 08:34 AM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 03:11 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-10-2011 10:21 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(06-10-2011 12:48 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-09-2011 10:40 AM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  I think we should do away with minimum wage. Not for first responders, but for Wal-mart, McDonalds, Subway, and gas station type jobs. Let the market determine what a high school kid should get paid. And yes I know that there are people who stock shelves at Wal-mart as their career, but that doesn't mean they should be paid more than the college kid working over at Target doing it as part time work. I have no problem with first responders making $50-$75K depending on experience and location. I think that is fair for the training, knowledge, and risk their job entails.
The markets wouldn't determine a damn thing. It would be the corporations determining the wages. THis is why 'Fo and the other nuts on here that think like him live in a fantasy world. Maybe you should try working that Covo gig you used to have at $3.00 an hour(or less)? I am sure you would have been delighted.
Problem is, the market has determined that stagehands make around $15 an hour. I don't work any union calls and get paid from $13-33 per hour. So the market did determine that wage, which is fair.
Did the market really set those wages or was it something else? In this case, Union wages proped up your wages. You take away the Union and who calls the shots when it comes to wages? It certainly isn't the market.
Like I said, I don't work for a union or work any union calls. They can pay me whatever they want. Thing is, they pay me for my skill set. I know how to run a sound system, they are willing to pay for someone who knows how to do that. They want someone who can fill in and run concert lighting, they pay me for that. And they pay well for that. Many places I work the union doesn't even reach to so union's "propping up wages" has nothing to do with it.
I didn't think you would understand and I was right. Keep on believing that the wages that Union members are making don't factor into your pay rate.
06-11-2011 01:49 PM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #45
RE: California hits a new low
(06-11-2011 09:44 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 03:11 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Did the market really set those wages or was it something else? In this case, Union wages proped up your wages.

And propped up operating costs and ultimately the cost of the tickets which YOU pay.
Not surprising that you wouldn't understand either.
06-11-2011 01:50 PM
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BleedsHuskieRed Offline
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Post: #46
RE: California hits a new low
(06-11-2011 01:49 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 08:34 AM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 03:11 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-10-2011 10:21 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(06-10-2011 12:48 PM)RobertN Wrote:  The markets wouldn't determine a damn thing. It would be the corporations determining the wages. THis is why 'Fo and the other nuts on here that think like him live in a fantasy world. Maybe you should try working that Covo gig you used to have at $3.00 an hour(or less)? I am sure you would have been delighted.
Problem is, the market has determined that stagehands make around $15 an hour. I don't work any union calls and get paid from $13-33 per hour. So the market did determine that wage, which is fair.
Did the market really set those wages or was it something else? In this case, Union wages proped up your wages. You take away the Union and who calls the shots when it comes to wages? It certainly isn't the market.
Like I said, I don't work for a union or work any union calls. They can pay me whatever they want. Thing is, they pay me for my skill set. I know how to run a sound system, they are willing to pay for someone who knows how to do that. They want someone who can fill in and run concert lighting, they pay me for that. And they pay well for that. Many places I work the union doesn't even reach to so union's "propping up wages" has nothing to do with it.
I didn't think you would understand and I was right. Keep on believing that the wages that Union members are making don't factor into your pay rate.
I like how you are so hung up on "the union does everything so well" that you refuse to comprehend that some companies are willing to pay a fair wage for work.
06-11-2011 02:00 PM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #47
RE: California hits a new low
(06-11-2011 02:00 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 01:49 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 08:34 AM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 03:11 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-10-2011 10:21 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  Problem is, the market has determined that stagehands make around $15 an hour. I don't work any union calls and get paid from $13-33 per hour. So the market did determine that wage, which is fair.
Did the market really set those wages or was it something else? In this case, Union wages proped up your wages. You take away the Union and who calls the shots when it comes to wages? It certainly isn't the market.
Like I said, I don't work for a union or work any union calls. They can pay me whatever they want. Thing is, they pay me for my skill set. I know how to run a sound system, they are willing to pay for someone who knows how to do that. They want someone who can fill in and run concert lighting, they pay me for that. And they pay well for that. Many places I work the union doesn't even reach to so union's "propping up wages" has nothing to do with it.
I didn't think you would understand and I was right. Keep on believing that the wages that Union members are making don't factor into your pay rate.
I like how you are so hung up on "the union does everything so well" that you refuse to comprehend that some companies are willing to pay a fair wage for work.
Where have I ever said "the Union does everything right"? I didn't. What makes you think that a company would pay you at a higher rate out of the goodness of their heart when you guys are constantly telling me that it is all about the profits? Do you not believe that there may be something else keeping your wages as high as they are? Do you really think that a company could get away with paying you at half the cost of a Union worker and still be able to hire the best? Really?
06-11-2011 02:09 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: California hits a new low
(06-11-2011 01:50 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 09:44 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 03:11 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Did the market really set those wages or was it something else? In this case, Union wages proped up your wages.

And propped up operating costs and ultimately the cost of the tickets which YOU pay.
Not surprising that you wouldn't understand either.

You tell me I'm wrong but don't tell me why. Please explain how higher operating costs, i.e. wages, doesn't tranlate to higher prices on goods and services?
06-11-2011 02:35 PM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #49
RE: California hits a new low
(06-11-2011 02:35 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 01:50 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 09:44 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 03:11 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Did the market really set those wages or was it something else? In this case, Union wages proped up your wages.

And propped up operating costs and ultimately the cost of the tickets which YOU pay.
Not surprising that you wouldn't understand either.

You tell me I'm wrong but don't tell me why. Please explain how higher operating costs, i.e. wages, doesn't tranlate to higher prices on goods and services?
I never said they didn't I just said you didn't understand because you weren't responding to the point I was making.
06-11-2011 02:41 PM
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BleedsHuskieRed Offline
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Post: #50
RE: California hits a new low
(06-11-2011 02:09 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 02:00 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 01:49 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 08:34 AM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 03:11 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Did the market really set those wages or was it something else? In this case, Union wages proped up your wages. You take away the Union and who calls the shots when it comes to wages? It certainly isn't the market.
Like I said, I don't work for a union or work any union calls. They can pay me whatever they want. Thing is, they pay me for my skill set. I know how to run a sound system, they are willing to pay for someone who knows how to do that. They want someone who can fill in and run concert lighting, they pay me for that. And they pay well for that. Many places I work the union doesn't even reach to so union's "propping up wages" has nothing to do with it.
I didn't think you would understand and I was right. Keep on believing that the wages that Union members are making don't factor into your pay rate.
I like how you are so hung up on "the union does everything so well" that you refuse to comprehend that some companies are willing to pay a fair wage for work.
Where have I ever said "the Union does everything right"? I didn't. What makes you think that a company would pay you at a higher rate out of the goodness of their heart when you guys are constantly telling me that it is all about the profits? Do you not believe that there may be something else keeping your wages as high as they are? Do you really think that a company could get away with paying you at half the cost of a Union worker and still be able to hire the best? Really?
Who said anything about half as much? How about the idea that we don't want to pay part of our wages to union dues? How about we don't want the cronyism involved in trying to get gigs if we are in the union? How about we don't like the strict rules that Local 2 gives their stagehands? I don't think you quite comprehend the term "human resources". For a company to make a profit, they have to have people that are good at what they do. Therefore, to get the best and the brightest they have to pay a fair wage. Trust me, I have seen what happens when people get paid minimum wage, if a company wants to do things right and make a profit, they need to pay their workers fairly. It doesn't take a union to do that. You give me a job and a wage that you don't think is fair in this country. Or find a wage that fits the job perfectly and explain why the only reason they get that is because of unions. I'm willing to bet, most jobs and their compensation match up pretty fairly, even those that aren't even union type jobs.
06-11-2011 02:43 PM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #51
RE: California hits a new low
(06-11-2011 02:43 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 02:09 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 02:00 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 01:49 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 08:34 AM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  Like I said, I don't work for a union or work any union calls. They can pay me whatever they want. Thing is, they pay me for my skill set. I know how to run a sound system, they are willing to pay for someone who knows how to do that. They want someone who can fill in and run concert lighting, they pay me for that. And they pay well for that. Many places I work the union doesn't even reach to so union's "propping up wages" has nothing to do with it.
I didn't think you would understand and I was right. Keep on believing that the wages that Union members are making don't factor into your pay rate.
I like how you are so hung up on "the union does everything so well" that you refuse to comprehend that some companies are willing to pay a fair wage for work.
Where have I ever said "the Union does everything right"? I didn't. What makes you think that a company would pay you at a higher rate out of the goodness of their heart when you guys are constantly telling me that it is all about the profits? Do you not believe that there may be something else keeping your wages as high as they are? Do you really think that a company could get away with paying you at half the cost of a Union worker and still be able to hire the best? Really?
Who said anything about half as much? How about the idea that we don't want to pay part of our wages to union dues? How about we don't want the cronyism involved in trying to get gigs if we are in the union? How about we don't like the strict rules that Local 2 gives their stagehands? I don't think you quite comprehend the term "human resources". For a company to make a profit, they have to have people that are good at what they do. Therefore, to get the best and the brightest they have to pay a fair wage. Trust me, I have seen what happens when people get paid minimum wage, if a company wants to do things right and make a profit, they need to pay their workers fairly. It doesn't take a union to do that. You give me a job and a wage that you don't think is fair in this country. Or find a wage that fits the job perfectly and explain why the only reason they get that is because of unions. I'm willing to bet, most jobs and their compensation match up pretty fairly, even those that aren't even union type jobs.
Not really sure how to explain it to you so you would understand so I will just let you keep believing that it is just the kindness of the businesses heart that they pay you what you deem to be a fair wage.
06-11-2011 02:49 PM
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BleedsHuskieRed Offline
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Post: #52
RE: California hits a new low
(06-11-2011 02:49 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 02:43 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 02:09 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 02:00 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 01:49 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I didn't think you would understand and I was right. Keep on believing that the wages that Union members are making don't factor into your pay rate.
I like how you are so hung up on "the union does everything so well" that you refuse to comprehend that some companies are willing to pay a fair wage for work.
Where have I ever said "the Union does everything right"? I didn't. What makes you think that a company would pay you at a higher rate out of the goodness of their heart when you guys are constantly telling me that it is all about the profits? Do you not believe that there may be something else keeping your wages as high as they are? Do you really think that a company could get away with paying you at half the cost of a Union worker and still be able to hire the best? Really?
Who said anything about half as much? How about the idea that we don't want to pay part of our wages to union dues? How about we don't want the cronyism involved in trying to get gigs if we are in the union? How about we don't like the strict rules that Local 2 gives their stagehands? I don't think you quite comprehend the term "human resources". For a company to make a profit, they have to have people that are good at what they do. Therefore, to get the best and the brightest they have to pay a fair wage. Trust me, I have seen what happens when people get paid minimum wage, if a company wants to do things right and make a profit, they need to pay their workers fairly. It doesn't take a union to do that. You give me a job and a wage that you don't think is fair in this country. Or find a wage that fits the job perfectly and explain why the only reason they get that is because of unions. I'm willing to bet, most jobs and their compensation match up pretty fairly, even those that aren't even union type jobs.
Not really sure how to explain it to you so you would understand so I will just let you keep believing that it is just the kindness of the businesses heart that they pay you what you deem to be a fair wage.
Where did I say it was out of the kindness of their heart? I said it was to make a profit. The better people have working for you, the better off your business is. When you open your pizza business you claim to be able to easily run, hire whoever you can at the cheapest they will work for and tell me how you do. If you can find people to do it, awesome, great! But chances are you will get crap workers. That is why companies pay more, for better people. You can say it's because of unions all you want, but the fact remains that the more a company pays, the more profit that company will bring in. And I like how you're trying to say is a wage I think is fair, may not be by using the word "deem". I do gigs where I make $35 an hour to operate a powerpoint presentation, so I would say that is more than fair...btw, no union telling them how much to pay me.
06-11-2011 03:45 PM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #53
RE: California hits a new low
(06-11-2011 03:45 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 02:49 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 02:43 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 02:09 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(06-11-2011 02:00 PM)BleedsHuskieRed Wrote:  I like how you are so hung up on "the union does everything so well" that you refuse to comprehend that some companies are willing to pay a fair wage for work.
Where have I ever said "the Union does everything right"? I didn't. What makes you think that a company would pay you at a higher rate out of the goodness of their heart when you guys are constantly telling me that it is all about the profits? Do you not believe that there may be something else keeping your wages as high as they are? Do you really think that a company could get away with paying you at half the cost of a Union worker and still be able to hire the best? Really?
Who said anything about half as much? How about the idea that we don't want to pay part of our wages to union dues? How about we don't want the cronyism involved in trying to get gigs if we are in the union? How about we don't like the strict rules that Local 2 gives their stagehands? I don't think you quite comprehend the term "human resources". For a company to make a profit, they have to have people that are good at what they do. Therefore, to get the best and the brightest they have to pay a fair wage. Trust me, I have seen what happens when people get paid minimum wage, if a company wants to do things right and make a profit, they need to pay their workers fairly. It doesn't take a union to do that. You give me a job and a wage that you don't think is fair in this country. Or find a wage that fits the job perfectly and explain why the only reason they get that is because of unions. I'm willing to bet, most jobs and their compensation match up pretty fairly, even those that aren't even union type jobs.
Not really sure how to explain it to you so you would understand so I will just let you keep believing that it is just the kindness of the businesses heart that they pay you what you deem to be a fair wage.
Where did I say it was out of the kindness of their heart? I said it was to make a profit. The better people have working for you, the better off your business is. When you open your pizza business you claim to be able to easily run, hire whoever you can at the cheapest they will work for and tell me how you do. If you can find people to do it, awesome, great! But chances are you will get crap workers. That is why companies pay more, for better people. You can say it's because of unions all you want, but the fact remains that the more a company pays, the more profit that company will bring in. And I like how you're trying to say is a wage I think is fair, may not be by using the word "deem". I do gigs where I make $35 an hour to operate a powerpoint presentation, so I would say that is more than fair...btw, no union telling them how much to pay me.
As I said, it is useless trying to explain it to you.
06-11-2011 03:53 PM
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