Annual Crimes Per 1,000 Persons
South Carolina || Violent: 8.07 -- Property: 46.02 -- Total: 54.09
Chicago || Violent: 12.12 -- Property: 48.82 -- Total: 60.94



As a progressive Robert, I'm sure you're also interested in how stratified wealth is.

Households with income below the poverty level
South Carolina: 15.7%
Chicago: 21.6%

Boy taxin' the rich and giving handouts to the poor really works great for Chicago. And since this is the entire state of SC, you actually should have had an advantage here. The I-95 area around Florence is about as poor as it gets, and that's where the term "Sandlappers" originates from. The soil is sandy as it use to be beaches long ago, so the usual staple of economic output in a poor area (farming) doesn't apply.



Home Ownership (As a percentage of total dwellings)
South Carolina || Home Owners: 63.16% -- Renters: 24.31% -- Vacant: 12.53%
Chicago || Home Owners: 40.33% -- Renters: 51.78% -- Vacant: 7.89%

An outright majority of Chicago natives don't own their home, and therefore never accrue equity or real assets, and in most cases live paycheck to paycheck.



And not all homes are created equal. Chicago homes are significantly older and significantly smaller.

South Carolina || Studio: 0.95% -- 1 BR: 7.32% -- 2 BR: 29.45% -- 3 BR: 48.33% -- 4 BR: 11.82% -- 5+ BR: 2.13%
Chicago || Studio: 7.41% -- 1 BR: 22.58% -- 2 BR: 33.58% -- 3 BR: 26.65% -- 4 BR: 6.92% -- 5+ BR: 2.86%

South Carolina || 1995+: 15.37% -- 1970-1994: 51.08% -- 1940-1969: 27.44% -- 1939-: 6.11%
Chicago || 1995+: 2.73% -- 1970-1994: 14.30% -- 1940-1969: 44.97% -- 1939-: 38.00%


But GTS, you say, SC is a buncha backwater uneducated idiots. Wellllllllllll......
South Carolina || HS Diploma: 76.34% -- College Graduate: 20.42%
Chicago || HS Diploma: 71.82% -- College Graduate: 25.49%

You graduate less people from High School, and the collegiate gap is 5% despite having a hugely disproportionate number of colleges in and immediately around Chicago (UIC, IIT, Northwestern, UC, Loyola, DePaul, CSU, NLU, NPU, LFC, Saint Xavier, EWU, RU, etc).

Facts are stubborn things.

(05-29-2011 09:16 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  Annual Crimes Per 1,000 Persons
South Carolina || Violent: 8.07 -- Property: 46.02 -- Total: 54.09
Chicago || Violent: 12.12 -- Property: 48.82 -- Total: 60.94



As a progressive Robert, I'm sure you're also interested in how stratified wealth is.

Households with income below the poverty level
South Carolina: 15.7%
Chicago: 21.6%

Boy taxin' the rich and giving handouts to the poor really works great for Chicago. And since this is the entire state of SC, you actually should have had an advantage here. The I-95 area around Florence is about as poor as it gets, and that's where the term "Sandlappers" originates from. The soil is sandy as it use to be beaches long ago, so the usual staple of economic output in a poor area (farming) doesn't apply.



Home Ownership (As a percentage of total dwellings)
South Carolina || Home Owners: 63.16% -- Renters: 24.31% -- Vacant: 12.53%
Chicago || Home Owners: 40.33% -- Renters: 51.78% -- Vacant: 7.89%

An outright majority of Chicago natives don't own their home, and therefore never accrue equity or real assets, and in most cases live paycheck to paycheck.



And not all homes are created equal. Chicago homes are significantly older and significantly smaller.

South Carolina || Studio: 0.95% -- 1 BR: 7.32% -- 2 BR: 29.45% -- 3 BR: 48.33% -- 4 BR: 11.82% -- 5+ BR: 2.13%
Chicago || Studio: 7.41% -- 1 BR: 22.58% -- 2 BR: 33.58% -- 3 BR: 26.65% -- 4 BR: 6.92% -- 5+ BR: 2.86%

South Carolina || 1995+: 15.37% -- 1970-1994: 51.08% -- 1940-1969: 27.44% -- 1939-: 6.11%
Chicago || 1995+: 2.73% -- 1970-1994: 14.30% -- 1940-1969: 44.97% -- 1939-: 38.00%


But GTS, you say, SC is a buncha backwater uneducated idiots. Wellllllllllll......
South Carolina || HS Diploma: 76.34% -- College Graduate: 20.42%
Chicago || HS Diploma: 71.82% -- College Graduate: 25.49%

You graduate less people from High School, and the collegiate gap is 5% despite having a hugely disproportionate number of colleges in and immediately around Chicago (UIC, IIT, Northwestern, UC, Loyola, DePaul, CSU, NLU, NPU, LFC, Saint Xavier, EWU, RU, etc).

You aren't actually comparing home ownership rates and apartment size to SC are you? Seriously? They are totally different ways of life.

Btw, how's your house price working out for you these days? Price going up? People keep saying "houses are investments", well that is how we got into this housing mess in the first place.

(05-29-2011 09:26 PM)Smaug Wrote:  Facts are stubborn things.

Where did he find his info? I gave links to where I got mine. Mine showed in 2006 and 2010 that crime in SC was some of the highest in the country. If you want to dispute the numbers blame the newspapers. I gave you facts and links. He gives some numbers with no link and thinks that we should all just believe him.

(05-29-2011 09:54 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(05-29-2011 09:26 PM)Smaug Wrote:  Facts are stubborn things.

Where did he find his info? I gave links to where I got mine. Mine showed in 2006 and 2010 that crime in SC was some of the highest in the country. If you want to dispute the numbers blame the newspapers. I gave you facts and links. He gives some numbers with no link and thinks that we should all just believe him.

I don't know where he got them, but like you, I tend to give those I tend to agree with more of the benefit of the doubt over those I tend not to.

(05-29-2011 09:56 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(05-29-2011 09:54 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(05-29-2011 09:26 PM)Smaug Wrote:  Facts are stubborn things.

Where did he find his info? I gave links to where I got mine. Mine showed in 2006 and 2010 that crime in SC was some of the highest in the country. If you want to dispute the numbers blame the newspapers. I gave you facts and links. He gives some numbers with no link and thinks that we should all just believe him.

I don't know where he got them, but like you, I tend to give those I tend to agree with more of the benefit of the doubt over those I tend not to.

So you don't believe the 2006 census numbers? It is that big government thing again isn't it?

(05-29-2011 09:45 PM)RobertN Wrote:  You aren't actually comparing home ownership rates and apartment size to SC are you? Seriously? They are totally different ways of life.

Btw, how's your house price working out for you these days? Price going up? People keep saying "houses are investments", well that is how we got into this housing mess in the first place.

You're right, they are totally different ways of life. Starting with the taxation. And house prices were fine until the government decided it should give mortgages to people who were deemed not worthy of sufficient credit in the free market.

(05-29-2011 09:54 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Where did he find his info? I gave links to where I got mine. Mine showed in 2006 and 2010 that crime in SC was some of the highest in the country. If you want to dispute the numbers blame the newspapers. I gave you facts and links. He gives some numbers with no link and thinks that we should all just believe him.

Poverty rates are from the US Census, 2009. The rest, from here: http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/

(05-29-2011 07:13 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I didn't know you lived in the "state of denile". Well, it explains your living in a fantasy world. In places where people are intelligent enough to know that businesses care more about the bottom dollar than the people they serve.

The same could be said of Unions:

"When school children start paying union dues, that's when I'll start representing the interests of school children." -- Albert Shanker President UFT

(05-29-2011 09:45 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Btw, how's your house price working out for you these days? Price going up? People keep saying "houses are investments", well that is how we got into this housing mess in the first place.

Houses have been considered investments for decades. Just not short term investments.

What turned them into short term investments was the govet telling lenders they had to make bad loans and promising them that sallie would back them up.

The banksters went for it and one aging the govt trying to rig the system backfires..

(05-30-2011 01:12 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-29-2011 09:45 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Btw, how's your house price working out for you these days? Price going up? People keep saying "houses are investments", well that is how we got into this housing mess in the first place.

Houses have been considered investments for decades. Just not short term investments.

What turned them into short term investments was the govet telling lenders they had to make bad loans and promising them that sallie would back them up.

The banksters went for it and one aging the govt trying to rig the system backfires..

Clinton's "community reinvestment act" is the reason we had a housing bubble and subsequent burst. Clinton and his lib cronies decided that everyone was "entitled" to purchase a home even if they could not afford it. It artificially lowered interest rates and allowed sh!tty loans to be made by the banks and then sold off to Fanny and Freddie. The banks made their 1% and left the taxpayers holding the bag for the rest.

(05-29-2011 06:15 PM)RobertN Wrote:  That looks nothing like me. But your "unfettered free market" crap is a fantasy. It WILL fail because the world doesn't work the way you think it works. Get out of your little hick South Carolina bubble and try living in the real world.

You have NO evidence to support that an unfettered free market would fail. It has never been allowed to exist because statists like you refuse to stop meddling in the marketplace and let it do what it naturally does...self regulate. Would it be perfect?..no. Would it make mistakes?...yes. Would it learn from it's mistakes and be preferable to government control...absolutely.

Property is the fruit of labor. Property is desirable, is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another, but let him work diligently to build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence. Abraham Lincoln

(05-30-2011 10:41 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Property is the fruit of labor. Property is desirable, is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another, but let him work diligently to build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence. Abraham Lincoln

Although I am not a fan of Lincoln....I am a fan of that quote. He was dead on.

(05-30-2011 01:01 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(05-29-2011 09:45 PM)RobertN Wrote:  You aren't actually comparing home ownership rates and apartment size to SC are you? Seriously? They are totally different ways of life.

Btw, how's your house price working out for you these days? Price going up? People keep saying "houses are investments", well that is how we got into this housing mess in the first place.

You're right, they are totally different ways of life. Starting with the taxation. And house prices were fine until the government decided it should give mortgages to people who were deemed not worthy of sufficient credit in the free market.

(05-29-2011 09:54 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Where did he find his info? I gave links to where I got mine. Mine showed in 2006 and 2010 that crime in SC was some of the highest in the country. If you want to dispute the numbers blame the newspapers. I gave you facts and links. He gives some numbers with no link and thinks that we should all just believe him.

Poverty rates are from the US Census, 2009. The rest, from here: http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/

Well, for one thing GTS, taxation is higher in Chicago for several reasons. 1. There are more services provided such as a large mass transit system which there are few(and they would be much smaller) to none in SC. 2. THere are more city streets to fix, parks to maintain and infrastructure(watermains etc) to replace(costs go up as a city gets older). 3. I am sure there is some/much waste. I am sure there are more than this but these 3 came to mind right away. As for house prices, the they would have collapsed eventually. THe greed of banks and others caused it to speed up but housing prices were getting higher and higher and more and more people were being shut out of the market thus eventually causing a collapse. It probably wouldn't have been as severe but it was going to happen.

(05-30-2011 11:37 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(05-30-2011 01:01 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(05-29-2011 09:45 PM)RobertN Wrote:  You aren't actually comparing home ownership rates and apartment size to SC are you? Seriously? They are totally different ways of life.

Btw, how's your house price working out for you these days? Price going up? People keep saying "houses are investments", well that is how we got into this housing mess in the first place.

You're right, they are totally different ways of life. Starting with the taxation. And house prices were fine until the government decided it should give mortgages to people who were deemed not worthy of sufficient credit in the free market.

(05-29-2011 09:54 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Where did he find his info? I gave links to where I got mine. Mine showed in 2006 and 2010 that crime in SC was some of the highest in the country. If you want to dispute the numbers blame the newspapers. I gave you facts and links. He gives some numbers with no link and thinks that we should all just believe him.

Poverty rates are from the US Census, 2009. The rest, from here: http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/

Well, for one thing GTS, taxation is higher in Chicago for several reasons. 1. There are more services provided such as a large mass transit system which there are few(and they would be much smaller) to none in SC. 2. THere are more city streets to fix, parks to maintain and infrastructure(watermains etc) to replace(costs go up as a city gets older). 3. I am sure there is some/much waste. I am sure there are more than this but these 3 came to mind right away. As for house prices, the they would have collapsed eventually. THe greed of banks and others caused it to speed up but housing prices were getting higher and higher and more and more people were being shut out of the market thus eventually causing a collapse. It probably wouldn't have been as severe but it was going to happen.

That is absolute BS...The fact that damn near anyone with a pulse was able to get a mortgage was the reason for the housing bust. Did the banks take advantage of a crappy government program?...yes. I am pissed with them also. The community reinvestment act was the catalyst for the mess. It is an another example of the unintended consequences of government interference in marketplace.

Simply...If you can not afford to put down 20%...your ass needs to rent.

(05-30-2011 09:35 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-29-2011 06:15 PM)RobertN Wrote:  That looks nothing like me. But your "unfettered free market" crap is a fantasy. It WILL fail because the world doesn't work the way you think it works. Get out of your little hick South Carolina bubble and try living in the real world.

You have NO evidence to support that an unfettered free market would fail. It has never been allowed to exist because statists like you refuse to stop meddling in the marketplace and let it do what it naturally does...self regulate. Would it be perfect?..no. Would it make mistakes?...yes. Would it learn from it's mistakes and be preferable to government control...absolutely.

THat is the problem 'Fo. There would be NO "self regualation". It is a nice fantasy but companies do what is in their best interest NOT the customer or society. Sorry to break this news to you.

Bte, companies would NOT clean up after themselves(pollution) because it is expensive. THis is one of those "fantasy land" ideas you have that fail in the real world.

(05-30-2011 10:41 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Property is the fruit of labor. Property is desirable, is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another, but let him work diligently to build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence. Abraham Lincoln

Nive speech Paula but this country doesn't work like that anymore. Hate to break the news to you. A few individuals may climb our of middle class to the upper class or lower class to middle(or upper class) but one is pretty much stuck where they are in terms of class. In other words there is little social mobility up anymore.

(05-30-2011 10:17 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(05-30-2011 10:41 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Property is the fruit of labor. Property is desirable, is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another, but let him work diligently to build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence. Abraham Lincoln

Nice speech Paula but this country doesn't work like that anymore. Hate to break the news to you. A few individuals may climb our of middle class to the upper class or lower class to middle(or upper class) but one is pretty much stuck where they are in terms of class. In other words there is little social mobility up anymore.

If I agree with you on this, will you agree with me that the reason is government intervention in the economy?

The more means-tested welfare programs, the more income redistribution, the more "welfare trap," and the more nanny state regulation we have, the more difficult upward mobility becomes.

The left wants to keep the poor poor, and placate them with handouts, so they will keep voting for leftist candidates. The right has a tremendous opportunity here to show that the best antidote to poverty is upward mobility, but they can't seem to keep their eyes on the ball.

(05-30-2011 10:51 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-30-2011 10:17 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(05-30-2011 10:41 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Property is the fruit of labor. Property is desirable, is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another, but let him work diligently to build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence. Abraham Lincoln

Nice speech Paula but this country doesn't work like that anymore. Hate to break the news to you. A few individuals may climb our of middle class to the upper class or lower class to middle(or upper class) but one is pretty much stuck where they are in terms of class. In other words there is little social mobility up anymore.

If I agree with you on this, will you agree with me that the reason is government intervention in the economy?

The more means-tested welfare programs, the more income redistribution, the more "welfare trap," and the more nanny state regulation we have, the more difficult upward mobility becomes.

The left wants to keep the poor poor, and placate them with handouts, so they will keep voting for leftist candidates. The right has a tremendous opportunity here to show that the best antidote to poverty is upward mobility, but they can't seem to keep their eyes on the ball.

No I don't agree. Nice try.

Robert might as well live in Canada.. DeKalb and Chicago are two separate worlds. Not that Chicago is anything like what you described so it doesn't really matter, but Robert lives in a farm town. If he did live here, it's not like he'd live in Englewood or Austin (the places that might fit your description).