(03-07-2011 05:47 PM)huskiealum03 Wrote:  

(03-07-2011 03:40 PM)klake87 Wrote:  Almost 107 a barrel.

lets not forget the speculators who are helping drive prices up. free market capitalism!

So libya will settledown in 2 weeks. Saudi will be fine, bahrain, yemen. Lots of governments still to fall. We are only at the start

(03-07-2011 08:54 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  I think we should ban all cars in this country. We need to save the environment and banning cars is the way to do it. Let's go back to the days of riding horses everywhere. However, we should train the horses not to crap on the ground. If they can't control themselves, just shoot them for polluting. I can see a renaissance coming for Cavel Industries.

Sure, but the left wants to ignore the constitution and not let us have the guns we'll need to shoot the pooping horses!

Hey GBF, here are some relatively updated numbers for our oil imports(Nov and Dec 2010 numbers released a few weeks back). Didn't see what the Trib said but it looks like the top 5 from HF84's chart are the same countries except Mexico jumped to number 2 spot and SA down to 3. Slightly more from Canada and less from Mexico and SA compred w/ other chat. One thing I should note is that these are from a government website.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petro...mport.html

Crude Oil Imports (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)
Country Dec-10 Nov-10 YTD 2010 Dec-09 YTD 2009

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CANADA 2,064 1,975 1,972 2,104 1,943
MEXICO 1,223 1,229 1,140 1,063 1,092
SAUDI ARABIA 1,076 1,119 1,080 870 980
NIGERIA 1,024 806 986 1,020 776
VENEZUELA 825 884 912 772 951
IRAQ 336 340 414 325 449
ANGOLA 307 263 380 266 448
BRAZIL 271 188 254 181 295
ALGERIA 262 379 325 336 281
COLOMBIA 220 489 338 179 251
ECUADOR 192 188 195 86 181
RUSSIA 158 85 252 168 230
KUWAIT 125 170 195 160 180
UNITED KINGDOM 124 80 120 67 103

I think it is fair to say that we are more dependent on North American/South American oil than mideast oil.

Regardless, again, explain how we transition to other technologies if we stop drilling today, as the administration has essentially suspended new wells and exploration?

Drilling SAFELY, creates good paying jobs, takes control from OPEC and gives us time to develop alternative sources of energy. Electric cars are still in its infancy stage. I hate that we allow despot governments to control our future as a country when whe have plenty of resources here

GBF.. it's already been explained in this thread. The options are already out there. You're complaining the first generation of electric cars don't meet your needs. It doesn't matter if they meet your specific needs, they meet the needs of a large number of people who live in big cities, which is more than enough to start the transition.

The infrastructure is already getting put in place, in Chicago for example they are breaking ground this spring (or already did, I'm not sure with this weather) for the charging stations. This isn't some Jetsons or Back to the Future nonsense, it's already here. It's doable right now.

It's ridiculous to accept the combustible engine 100+ years later. It's just embarrassing more than anything else for America to not be the leader in alternative energy and transportation. I'll never understand why conservatives don't want to keep up with the rest of the world, it's truly baffling for a group that constantly beats the "America is the Best" drum, they certainly have no interest in keeping that way.

You don't see us using steam ships or prop planes anymore. Why would we want a car with outdated technology?

Klake, Nuclear power, building charging stations, producing electric cars, alternative energy, these create high paying jobs too. They just happen to make sense for now and the future unlike drilling.

(03-08-2011 10:38 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  GBF.. it's already been explained in this thread. The options are already out there. You're complaining the first generation of electric cars don't meet your needs. It doesn't matter if they meet your specific needs, they meet the needs of a large number of people who live in big cities, which is more than enough to start the transition.

The infrastructure is already getting put in place, in Chicago for example they are breaking ground this spring (or already did, I'm not sure with this weather) for the charging stations. This isn't some Jetsons or Back to the Future nonsense, it's already here. It's doable right now.

It's ridiculous to accept the combustible engine 100+ years later. It's just embarrassing more than anything else for America to not be the leader in alternative energy and transportation. I'll never understand why conservatives don't want to keep up with the rest of the world, it's truly baffling for a group that constantly beats the "America is the Best" drum, they certainly have no interest in keeping that way.

You don't see us using steam ships or prop planes anymore. Why would we want a car with outdated technology?

Klake, Nuclear power, building charging stations, producing electric cars, alternative energy, these create high paying jobs too. They just happen to make sense for now and the future unlike drilling.

Most people in Chicago can not afford a $40k car. So they might be viable but not affordable. Like ethanol, we have huge subsidies for these projects that might not pan out.

(03-08-2011 10:38 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  GBF.. it's already been explained in this thread. The options are already out there. You're complaining the first generation of electric cars don't meet your needs. It doesn't matter if they meet your specific needs, they meet the needs of a large number of people who live in big cities, which is more than enough to start the transition.

The infrastructure is already getting put in place, in Chicago for example they are breaking ground this spring (or already did, I'm not sure with this weather) for the charging stations. This isn't some Jetsons or Back to the Future nonsense, it's already here. It's doable right now.

It's ridiculous to accept the combustible engine 100+ years later. It's just embarrassing more than anything else for America to not be the leader in alternative energy and transportation. I'll never understand why conservatives don't want to keep up with the rest of the world, it's truly baffling for a group that constantly beats the "America is the Best" drum, they certainly have no interest in keeping that way.

You don't see us using steam ships or prop planes anymore. Why would we want a car with outdated technology?

Klake, Nuclear power, building charging stations, producing electric cars, alternative energy, these create high paying jobs too. They just happen to make sense for now and the future unlike drilling.

What is baffling is your disconnect with reality. The electric cars DO NOT meet the needs of most people, even city dwellers. When you have a car that can only go sixty miles on a charge, you do not have a car that replaces many gas powered vehicles at all. You can't look at someone who commutes and say, boom, the Leaf can replace that commuter car. It is because that same car has to be used in other ways, for other trips, at night, on the weekends, etc. That Leaf does not have the range, nor the space to take the family to grandma's, or the kids to soccer practice after being driven during the day. Therefore, most people are NOT going to buy it. They will not spend such a large sum on an electric car when they will still have to own another gas powered vehicle to do all the other things required by life. Think about it.

Your pipe dream, the Leaf, can't even make the trip from the city to Huskie Stadium and back on a cold day. That screams practical.

And, if electric cars are so great, why is NO one buying them, even with the ridiculous tax credits?

It is actually a combustion engine. Combustible engines tend to not be the best for the user.

Throw up the numbers on how many charging stations are going in, the cost, and their locations. Go for it.

I'm all for alternatives. Get the government out of it, and let the market determine what works best. And, let drilling continue. Let the lowest cost, best energy source prevail.

Meanwhile, enjoy your coal powered Leaf when it strands you at work on a cold day.

If you truly think that the techology exists today for electric to work on a mass scale, you have illustrated that you cannot comprehend the degree of complexity and the vastness of this issue.

What is wrong with all of you...you sit and argue about plug-in electric cars, honestly it is NOT the answer.

Hydrogen Fuel Cells which I have mentioned many times is the answer. Honda has one available now on a limited basis, GM will have one in a few years.
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/refueling.aspx


Existing gas station can easily add hydrogen dispensing units.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_station

No plug in required!! Only emission is water!!

Stop arguing about plug-ins...it's irrelevant.

If the oil companies took the money they intend for exploration and added hydrogen refueling stations, we could be 25-50% fuel cell in 10 years. That the same time it takes a new well to be operational...guess what they would not be needed.

Some of you are so short sighted, or just plain blind, it amazes me.

Lets drill, hydrogen, nuclear, coal, natural gas, wind, solar etc. We need it all. But our leaders have taken control out of their hands by stopping oil drilling. Obama(and Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan and Carter before him) are helpless to protecting us. If the Mid East goes to hell, we will all suffer.

(03-08-2011 10:46 AM)klake87 Wrote:  

(03-08-2011 10:38 AM)HuskieFan84 Wrote:  GBF.. it's already been explained in this thread. The options are already out there. You're complaining the first generation of electric cars don't meet your needs. It doesn't matter if they meet your specific needs, they meet the needs of a large number of people who live in big cities, which is more than enough to start the transition.

The infrastructure is already getting put in place, in Chicago for example they are breaking ground this spring (or already did, I'm not sure with this weather) for the charging stations. This isn't some Jetsons or Back to the Future nonsense, it's already here. It's doable right now.

It's ridiculous to accept the combustible engine 100+ years later. It's just embarrassing more than anything else for America to not be the leader in alternative energy and transportation. I'll never understand why conservatives don't want to keep up with the rest of the world, it's truly baffling for a group that constantly beats the "America is the Best" drum, they certainly have no interest in keeping that way.

You don't see us using steam ships or prop planes anymore. Why would we want a car with outdated technology?

Klake, Nuclear power, building charging stations, producing electric cars, alternative energy, these create high paying jobs too. They just happen to make sense for now and the future unlike drilling.

Most people in Chicago can not afford a $40k car. So they might be viable but not affordable. Like ethanol, we have huge subsidies for these projects that might not pan out.

THe same could be said for LCD tv's when they first came out(and most other technological products). When they first came out they were viable but not affordable for ther masses. As time goes on being in the market, the price goes down. I just don't understand why you can't understand that concept.

Btw, the more we drill keeping prices down, the longer it will take to develop alternative technologies. I am not saying that we stop drilling(neither is Obama if you actually knew what you are talking about) because we will definately need oil on into the future. I just don't think it is a good idea to start drilling for oil just to keep gas prices down for you.

So what was that government program which dictated that consumers must quit buying horses and carriages and replace them with automobiles?

Lord knows the American consumer is far too stupid to make his own financial decisions, and there would be no progress without government mandate. It must have been because the government had placed heavy taxes on hay, and restricted its availability. Without all that government intervention in the market, only the rich would have cars, and everyone else would still be riding horses. Automobiles would have never been able to compete, otherwise.

(03-08-2011 01:23 PM)RobertN Wrote:   THe same could be said for LCD tv's when they first came out(and most other technological products). When they first came out they were viable but not affordable for ther masses. As time goes on being in the market, the price goes down. I just don't understand why you can't understand that concept.

Btw, the more we drill keeping prices down, the longer it will take to develop alternative technologies. I am not saying that we stop drilling(neither is Obama if you actually knew what you are talking about) because we will definately need oil on into the future. I just don't think it is a good idea to start drilling for oil just to keep gas prices down for you.

You are correct that time brought the cost of LCD's down. However, LCD's were/are competing with plasma's and the market determined which was the preferred choice. And, we didn't stop producing CRT's just because LCD's were available. There was a transition and the market picked which was the best solution. The government didn't do it arbitrarily.

Same logic applies to beta/vhs/laser disc...

Correct, the more we drill, the more prices come down. And, that is bad in what way? It allows time for alternatives to become practical. And, it lets market forces and the consumer decide when to switch from oil to something else, instead of the government forcing it upon people arbitrarily.

Lots of alternatives to cut your gas bill

1) Join Costco or Sam's Club. several locations have gas stations that are among the lowest priced not only in metro Chicago but around the nation.

2) ANyone who buys gas at BP needs to get a BP credit card. Not only is the one I carry free, I get a 5% credit to my monthly bill for all purchases(not just gas) for LIFE. In addition, they had a promotion in Jan & Feb when they gave out code cards for every 8 gal or larger purchase. Accumulate 5 code cards and log in the codes on their site and you get a $10 BP gift card. I've already got one and am expecting 2 more. Total savings $30. If your average fill up is 10 gallons, your saving $10 on 50 gallons or 20 cents per gallon

3) Carpool

4) Metro Chicago has one of the top 5 public transportation systems in the country, it doesn't go everywhere but it will take you to alot of places. $7 unlimited metra weekend rides and PACE buses are still $1.75. PACE 10 ride ticket gives you the 11th ride free. Metra 10 ride rail tickets are an automatic 20% discount on all routes.

The less we use, demand drops and prices SHOULD follow, not that they necessarily will with the collusion that goes on in the industry.

(02-24-2011 09:50 AM)klake87 Wrote:  Yep, another budget meeting with my family. More cuts are coming. Reduce eating out. More non name brands. No new clothing. Belt tightening but then Obama will push thru another stimulus package.

Of course it's all President Obama's fault.

(02-25-2011 02:03 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(02-25-2011 01:45 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(02-25-2011 01:31 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(02-25-2011 12:59 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(02-25-2011 12:55 PM)RobertN Wrote:  My whole point was if you are having problems with finances, cut back. But I guess that makes a person a socialist. It makes a persom a socialist to not take a vacation or a cheaper one? It makes a person a socialist to not have cable? It make a person a socialist to make **** wages? What a moronic post. Whatever Dog Fan. You are a rightwing brainwashed moron so I guess it isn't really surprising how moronic the post was.

No, I get upset when politicians increase taxes of all kinds to make up for their criminal graft and ineptitude. For that I need to cut back and live like a pauper? You are delusional.

Fine Dog Fan. Don't drive anywhere ever again. Don't send your kids to public schools(they would have to be home schooled since they are not allowed to use roads either). If you have a fire, let your trailer burn down. If you are robbed, don't call the police. If there is a terrorist plot, tell the FBI tyo go **** off. You don't want to pay for their services. Tell the EPA to go to hell because you want to breathe polluted air and drink polluted water. Fine, How about we gwet rid of food inspectors too? Bad meat? "We used to eat it all the time and we liked it"! I don't see you bitching that the wealthy and corporations don't pay their fair share(of course, you think YOU should pay to make up for the wealthiest not paying their fair share. They are Gods and are the only creator of jobs. Of course, corporations should pay becaus it is really like you that is paying the tax so why even bother taxing corps at all? ). I could go on but there is no point. Go back to watchung your Fox boobs.

Robert, you are sick, delusional individual (as most pinkos are). Read these words slowly (even a sponge with a brain should be able to understand them): I DO NOT MIND PAYING TAXES. I am willing to pay my fair share and then some. I understand that I do avail myself of governmental services. I contribute to charities in an amount more than your annual salary. What I do NOT like is politicians wasting taxpayer money, stuffing it in their pockets, giving it to their cronies, and then coming back to the taxpayers and asking for more. Government is infused with the criminal culture. What I saw in my 9 years in government was appalling. I quit because I could not sleep at night anymore. I work hard for my money and do not mind paying taxes for the services I receive. If you enjoy crooked politicians and their pals feeding at the public trough, that your prerogative. You will feel different once (if) you get off the public dole, get a job, and see more and more of your check eaten up by crooks.

So, because some of my tax money legitimately goes for services rendered to the populace, I would expect protection in the case of a terrorist attack. Now, why don't you go back to your leftist and terrorist friends and plot the demise of the U.S. Government like a good boy?

Wasteful spending? What is wasteful spending? Your idea of what is wasteful spending is surely different than mine. Not sure which way you would go on this but a guy at work thinks that giving the Smithsonian an increase in funding is a waste of money. I disagree with him. I think the Iraq war was a waste of mioney. You don't. We all have our opinions about what wasteful spending is.

Wasteful spending

1) Iraq war
2) Afghan war
3) Subsidizing the national defense of Western Europe
4) Subsidizing the national defense of Japan
5) Subsidizing the national defense of Korea
6) Paying drug manufacturers list or near list price for drugs purchase for the indigent and government employees when I can get them for half the price in Canada
7) Paying for weapon systems we will likely never need
8) Allowing oil companies to drill on public land at NO CHARGE!
9) Providing US House & Senate members with Free Taxpayer Supported Healthcare when they are trying to get employee cost supported healthcare away from Public Employee Unions
10) Providing US Senate & House members with Free Taxpayer Supported Lifetime Pensions, when those same lawmakers are trying to take away employee cost supported pensions from Public Employee Unions.

Correct my 10 pet peeves and you'll have a balanced budget in short order and a reduction in the Billions in corporate subsidies that are given to the Drug, Insurance and Petroleum industry. Not to mention a huge reduction in weapons spending since the size of the military will be correctly sized to the actual needs of the US with thousands of troops being decommissioned.

But of course you won't see any of these substantive issues discussed on republicon state television or radio

Cut defense and discretionary spending 15% across the board.

Raise Taxes, 2009 tax collections were 14.9% of GDP the lowest in 50 years, taxes need to be raised, period. raise taxes on those earning more than 300,000, corporate taxes; eliminate all loopholes and tax breaks, to get to an overall tax collections of 20% of GDP.

Cut SS taxes to 1/3 of their current rate but apply it to all earned income.

Eliminate estate tax.
[/quote]

How about raising taxes on the 47% of households that pay ZERO in federal income tax???? Maybe if everyone had to pay taxes they wouldn't be so willing to raise taxes.
[/quote]


You do know that the overwhelming majority of corporations that operate in the US pay $0 Federal Income Tax including the oil companies who enjoyed a $77,000,000,000 profit in 2010. Do you believe they should be paying if not taxes, fees to drill on public land for which they pay $0 now. An industry with $77,000,000,000 in profit while paying no Fed taxes or drilling rights fees is far more deserving of paying it's fair share than those getting earned income tax credit for working and earning less than $30 K annually.