When George Skelton is making salient points on this issue, liberals are definitely in trouble. Skelton is a NOTORIOUSLY left wing columnist for the LA Times, and his column today is still chock full of his class warfare drivel but he really gets some of the important issues here:

George Skelton Wrote:"A key question that we think needs to be asked," Assistant Legislative Analyst Jason Sisney said in a recent report, "is this: Can the substantial disparity between public and private sector retirement benefits be sustained much longer? We think that it probably cannot."

Presumably he was referring to sustaining the disparity fiscally. But it also cannot be sustained politically.

Spot on.

Quote:A statewide poll in December by Democratic pollster Jim Moore found that 62% of likely voters — including 54% of Democrats — considered "the escalating cost to taxpayers" of public employee pensions to be a "very serious" issue.

In a January 2010 poll by the Public Policy Institute of California, 70% of likely voters — including 61% of Democrats —favored changing government retirement benefits from pensions to 401(k)-type plans.

Quote:The Democratic governor and Legislature, along with labor, need to recognize the new economic reality: Private-sector taxpayers won't continue to pop for pension largesse that they themselves are denied. And Republicans need to get in the game.

Unbelievable that Skelton wrote this. (ETA: I assume his reference to Republicans refers to California, where Republicans in State government are vastly outnumbered and, well, pretty darned weak. I'm not sure how they realistically can "get in the game" in the near future but he's still correct.)

(02-24-2011 01:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 09:39 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/20...028449.php

So?

So? So, if you have something substanative to say about the Koch's, their business, and/or the way it's run, then please point it out. Why does it disqualify their political viewpoint, or taint those who accept their money?

(02-24-2011 01:46 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  smn-

Some people are deadbeats. It doesn't make sense to me and I could never show my face in the lunchroom, but some people will let others pay the dues and enjoy the fruits of their labor.

I agree. But if unions are so great that people protest at state capitols and the students follow them then why the need to pull teeth? Other than taxes nothing is withheld from my check. Should the bank have my mortgage withheld? How about my electric and water bills? I don't pay them and I lose my house and utilities. If a union member doesn't pay his dues then he's bounced out of the union. Wait...that would decrease dues payments. Mach, having dues pulled from a paycheck is a sweet, sweet deal that's only equaled by the government.

(02-24-2011 02:45 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 01:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 09:39 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/20...028449.php

So?

So? So, if you have something substanative to say about the Koch's, their business, and/or the way it's run, then please point it out. Why does it disqualify their political viewpoint, or taint those who accept their money?

I never said it did. As long as they stop trying to hide behind all their fronts, I have 0 problem with where they legally put their money.

(02-24-2011 02:54 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 01:46 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  smn-

Some people are deadbeats. It doesn't make sense to me and I could never show my face in the lunchroom, but some people will let others pay the dues and enjoy the fruits of their labor.

I agree. But if unions are so great that people protest at state capitols and the students follow them then why the need to pull teeth? Other than taxes nothing is withheld from my check. Should the bank have my mortgage withheld? How about my electric and water bills? I don't pay them and I lose my house and utilities. If a union member doesn't pay his dues then he's bounced out of the union. Wait...that would decrease dues payments. Mach, having dues pulled from a paycheck is a sweet, sweet deal that's only equaled by the government.

I have two close friends who are Cal State professors and reluctant members of the union. For years they chose not to join but after all that time of having the "dues amount" (they weren't actually dues; nudge, nudge, wink, wink) deducted from their checks, they finally caved in. Is that really how unions ought to work? If you're an organizer, you bet. But this union does not represent what my friends believe nor does it act in a way that they'd like it to act. THAT'S representation...

(02-24-2011 10:55 AM)mlb Wrote:  The whole point of the tenure is to protect the district from firing the most expensive teachers.

But this is exactly the problem with the contracts. The contracts mandate increases in pay based on nothing more than time on the job. You could have a SUPERB 5yr teacher making 60k, and an "okay" 20yr teacher making 85k. I'd argue that the SUPERB teacher should be able to negotiate a higher salary, and the district SHOULD be able to offer the 20yr teacher less. Unfortunately, when you unionize, it all pretty much comes out as... 5yrs = X, 20yrs = X+... good, bad or indifferent... and then we're surprised when we get more of the bad and indifferent.

(02-24-2011 03:22 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 02:45 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 01:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 09:39 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/20...028449.php

So?

So? So, if you have something substanative to say about the Koch's, their business, and/or the way it's run, then please point it out. Why does it disqualify their political viewpoint, or taint those who accept their money?

I never said it did. As long as they stop trying to hide behind all their fronts, I have 0 problem with where they legally put their money.

Okay....

What fronts?

(02-24-2011 03:50 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 03:22 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 02:45 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 01:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 09:39 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/20...028449.php

So?

So? So, if you have something substanative to say about the Koch's, their business, and/or the way it's run, then please point it out. Why does it disqualify their political viewpoint, or taint those who accept their money?

I never said it did. As long as they stop trying to hide behind all their fronts, I have 0 problem with where they legally put their money.

Okay....

What fronts?

Look it up yourself.

(02-24-2011 03:22 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 02:45 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 01:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 09:39 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/20...028449.php

So?

So? So, if you have something substanative to say about the Koch's, their business, and/or the way it's run, then please point it out. Why does it disqualify their political viewpoint, or taint those who accept their money?

I never said it did. As long as they stop trying to hide behind all their fronts, I have 0 problem with where they legally put their money.

Any problem with Media Matters? or Organizing for America? The Tides Foundation?

(02-24-2011 01:46 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  smn-

Some people are deadbeats. It doesn't make sense to me and I could never show my face in the lunchroom, but some people will let others pay the dues and enjoy the fruits of their labor.

Some people don't want to make contributions to the DNC.

(02-24-2011 04:22 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 03:22 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 02:45 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 01:19 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-24-2011 09:39 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/20...028449.php

So?

So? So, if you have something substanative to say about the Koch's, their business, and/or the way it's run, then please point it out. Why does it disqualify their political viewpoint, or taint those who accept their money?

I never said it did. As long as they stop trying to hide behind all their fronts, I have 0 problem with where they legally put their money.

Any problem with Media Matters? or Organizing for America? The Tides Foundation?

Media Matters is a great website (if it were not so effective the right wouldn't hate it so much)
WARNING: Media Matters contains truth and fact which may cause seizures, convulsions and fits of rage from those on the right.

(02-24-2011 09:48 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  Media Matters is a great website (if it were not so effective the right wouldn't hate it so much)
WARNING: Media Matters contains truth and fact which may cause seizures, convulsions and fits of rage from those on the right.

I never said it was ineffective I asked why its ok for right lefties to hide behind sites like media matters but its some crime against the republic for the Koch brothers to invest in their political causes?