http://newsblog.projo.com/2011/02/all-pr...o-rec.html

School Superintendent Tom Brady...hmmm, I thought the days of off-season jobs for NFL players were long past. Good to see Tom can stay in the New England area.

If you think education is expensive , try ignorance. I am so old I remember when the citizenry fought for higher wages for teachers.

(02-23-2011 09:56 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  If you think education is expensive , try ignorance. I am so old I remember when the citizenry fought for higher wages for teachers.

Yet today's citizenry was educated in the public schools. So, if they're ignorant, whose fault is that?

(02-23-2011 10:03 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-23-2011 09:56 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  If you think education is expensive , try ignorance. I am so old I remember when the citizenry fought for higher wages for teachers.

Yet today's citizenry was educated in the public schools. So, if they're ignorant, whose fault is that?

Liberals?

(02-23-2011 09:56 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  If you think education is expensive , try ignorance. I am so old I remember when the citizenry fought for higher wages for teachers.

People all across the private sector have their wages frozen, cut - or worse - get laid off altogether on a regular basis if business is bad.

No one enjoys seeing anyone, in any profession, have to bite the bullet on pay and benefits, much less be given the pink slip. But debates over whose livelihood is more "valuable" is often pointless. Labor is like a product or service, and this is where supply and demand plays a role. Is it "fair" that A-Rod or Simon Cowell or Ben Affleck get paid millions for relatively few hours of "work" that's not all that important or valuable to society? Yes, it is. Many, many people demand their services.

There's this stereotype that public servants, teachers in particular, are saints "doing good" for society, while private sector office workers are viewed more as corporate hacks salivating for a profit. ("Corporate accountant get laid off? Oh well, sorry, that's just the way it is. Teacher's pay got cut? Oh noes!!") When media pundits refer to 'Workers', they are generally talking about unionized and/or blue-collar jobs. Because people don't "work" in the cushy corporate world.

Bottom line is, a job is a job is a job. Every field has hard workers and their bad applies, each contributing to the engine of society. We shouldn't feel more compassion to one professional over another because of some perceived "goodness".

(02-23-2011 11:30 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Bottom line is, a job is a job is a job. Every field has hard workers and their bad applies, each contributing to the engine of society. We shouldn't feel more compassion to one professional over another because of some perceived "goodness".

What about lawyers?

(02-23-2011 10:03 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  Yet today's citizenry was educated in the public schools. So, if they're ignorant, whose fault is that?

(02-23-2011 10:09 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(02-23-2011 10:03 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-23-2011 09:56 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  If you think education is expensive , try ignorance. I am so old I remember when the citizenry fought for higher wages for teachers.

Yet today's citizenry was educated in the public schools. So, if they're ignorant, whose fault is that?

Liberals?

Precisely.

...............

"when the citizenry fought for higher wages for teachers" was mostly a time when schools -- the curriculum, the faculty, student-discipline, the requirements for enrollment, promotion, graduation and expulsion -- were effectively controlled by the town or community (usually, local ministers and/or the parents of 5-16 yr olds.) where the school was located. Once that kind of control was taken away from the locals and given to (in no particular order) the teacher unions, the graduate-school professors, state-level politicians and their pet administrators and judges, not to mention the federal judges and the "activists" and professional litigants who hang out with them, and the Department of Education (thanks, Jimmy Carter! Where would we be without you?) ... after two or three generations of all that, yeah, "higher wages for teachers" doesn't have quite the same level of popular support it once did. Funny how people react that way...

(02-23-2011 09:56 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  If you think education is expensive , try ignorance. I am so old I remember when the citizenry fought for higher wages for teachers.

Wisconsin, who pays teachers better than almost any other state, fils to get 8th graders reading at a proficient level more than 65% of the time!

The only ignorance I see here is the presumption that more money will fix education in America....

i don't think we can fix education in this country. We can't overcome all these fractured families and sh*tty, irresponsible parents who expect teachers to be a parent-substitute. It's parenting that's the problem, not schools. Once fathers became "unnecessary," education was screwed

(02-23-2011 05:02 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  i don't think we can fix education in this country. We can't overcome all these fractured families and sh*tty, irresponsible parents who expect teachers to be a parent-substitute. It's parenting that's the problem, not schools. Once fathers became "unnecessary," education was screwed

A lot of truth in there.

Putting aside all the debate and my own opinions about teacher unions, salaries, pension, etc, I'm more of the belief that the crass, self-entitled kids are simply products of home where either (1) daddy's long been gone and mom's reliving her wild child years, or (2) the parent(s) try too hard to be their kids' "buddies". While there are obvious exceptions, the classroom is more a reflection of the households as opposed to the product of "bad teaching."

Teachers are the parent-substitute during the day, and Internet/Facebook the parent-substitute during the evening.

(02-23-2011 05:02 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  i don't think we can fix education in this country. We can't overcome all these fractured families and sh*tty, irresponsible parents who expect teachers to be a parent-substitute. It's parenting that's the problem, not schools. Once fathers became "unnecessary," education was screwed

I buy into this as being the primary problem. The HS me and Swoosh went to was easily one of the top 10 publicly funded schools in the state. We easily had some of the most qualified and dedicated teachers, yet we still had morons who couldn't graduate. Big shocker, they all came from similar home situations. So while good teachers and great schools may produce a higher quality product, the initial foundation for that product is found outside of the school grounds.

Interesting story that recently appeared in the news about a parent who DOES care: http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2...d_on_s.php

(02-23-2011 05:02 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  i don't think we can fix education in this country. We can't overcome all these fractured families and sh*tty, irresponsible parents who expect teachers to be a parent-substitute. It's parenting that's the problem, not schools. Once fathers became "unnecessary," education was screwed

We have a winner! I learned my work ethic and moral principles by watching my Dad live his everyday life.

(02-23-2011 10:09 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(02-23-2011 10:03 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-23-2011 09:56 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  If you think education is expensive , try ignorance. I am so old I remember when the citizenry fought for higher wages for teachers.

Yet today's citizenry was educated in the public schools. So, if they're ignorant, whose fault is that?

Liberals?

Sorry, that's not the answer we were looking for.

The correct answer is "Bush," although you would have received credit for "Fox News."

(02-24-2011 07:19 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  

(02-23-2011 05:02 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  i don't think we can fix education in this country. We can't overcome all these fractured families and sh*tty, irresponsible parents who expect teachers to be a parent-substitute. It's parenting that's the problem, not schools. Once fathers became "unnecessary," education was screwed

We have a winner! I learned my work ethic and moral principles by watching my Dad live his everyday life.

But it won't stop the left here in Minnesota from saying they need more than 20K a year per student to do anything decent in Minneapolis...

If Obama wants to moralize (which is a privilege that comes with the office) he needs to lift one of Bill Cosby's speeches about inner city values and family.

The only problem is that everyone is so afraid of hurting the feelings of single mothers (or their kids) that they won't come out and say its better to have to functional parents than only one. Nobody will come out and say

"If you regret your choice of mate too bad! learn to love and model it for your kids."

Like you Peanut I learned by watching my father do a job he hated for decades and by watching my mother put up with a man who had a wicked temper (thankfully not physically abusive) just as long.