http://cnsnews.com/news/article/two-thir...ool-8th-g#

Ok, I overstated the case a bit. Most of them can't read proficiently. But in the end, obviously no-one from WI is going to understand enought to complain.

I think this is pretty clear proof we need to raise teachers' salaries even further!

Reward failure, it's the liberal way.

They do score 10th best in the union on the ACT in Wisconsin.

Torch exclusively blames the american worker for our ills as a nation, man that never gets old

(02-22-2011 05:13 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  Torch exclusively blames the american worker for our ills as a nation, man that never gets old

And the left blames the people who create jobs and wealth.

(02-22-2011 05:13 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  Torch exclusively blames the american worker for our ills as a nation, man that never gets old

You must be a product of Wisconsin. You certainly can't read.

How do they actually determine which teachers are supposedly better and which are worse?

(02-22-2011 05:15 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(02-22-2011 05:13 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  Torch exclusively blames the american worker for our ills as a nation, man that never gets old

And the left blames the people who create jobs and wealth.

And the wealthy blame the the middle class that made them rich to begin with

(02-22-2011 05:13 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  Torch exclusively blames the american worker for our ills as a nation, man that never gets old

That's not accurate. Since you're all about facts, I'm sure you'll want to correct that. Maybe read a bit more of what I write before you make gross assertions.

(02-22-2011 05:22 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  How do they actually determine which teachers are supposedly better and which are worse?

That's a fair question. I don't think there's a good way yet. If there was, we wouldn't have quite so many arguments about it.

How do people decide which cars are better, or which TVs are better? Maybe we should give people a choice in the matter, and they can decide and take responsibility. If a teacher or school system really isn't meeting a mark, I think parents voting w/ their feet would be a good indication.

(02-22-2011 05:33 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-22-2011 05:22 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  How do they actually determine which teachers are supposedly better and which are worse?

That's a fair question. I don't think there's a good way yet. If there was, we wouldn't have quite so many arguments about it.

How do people decide which cars are better, or which TVs are better? Maybe we should give people a choice in the matter, and they can decide and take responsibility. If a teacher or school system really isn't meeting a mark, I think parents voting w/ their feet would be a good indication.

I know, in my family, having nearly all educators in it(my families been doing this for 140 years... Mom, 3 aunts, grandmother, 4 cousins, great aunt, great grandmother, and so on...) I've always had my primary and elementary teachers chosen for me, by my mom, not by the school. You should be able to influence that, in fact, I think that's a parents right.

One big problem with rating teachers, at least here in Texas, is that the TAKS test is only given to students in certain grades, and teachers are evaluated based on percent passing.

Suppose everybody had to take a standardized test every year, and students were graded by the level they had reached, say 4.3 is third year of fourth grade. Then you could figure out at what level the students came to the teacher and at what level they left. Say a 6th grade teacher has only 50% pass; that sounds bad. But suppose her students came to her averaging 4.3 and left averaging 5.6. She brought them along 1.3 years, which is better than average. Now, track that over a series of years, and the breaks even out--those days when a student stayed up all night before the test because here parents were fighting, or when a student is sick, etc. Let the world know that Mr. Jones's 6th graders progress an average of 0.9 years, while Ms. Smith's 6th graders progress an average of 1.3 years, and give famililes vouchers to spend where they get their education. Now you can bring some market forces to bear on the problem.

I know that's not perfect, but I can't think of anything any better. Can anyone?

(02-22-2011 04:17 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  http://cnsnews.com/news/article/two-thir...ool-8th-g#

Ok, I overstated the case a bit. Most of them can't read proficiently. But in the end, obviously no-one from WI is going to understand enought to complain.

I think this is pretty clear proof we need to raise teachers' salaries even further!

I didn't wind up reading the article. But I did catch the photo of the high school Union Youth marching and wearing matching red (of course it's red) t-shirts.

The caption: Students from Appleton West High School protest a proposal by Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker that would make teachers pay a fraction of their own pension and health-insurance costs.

I'd absolutely love to take a poll of 100 of those students and find out exactly why, in their own words, they are marching up and down the square, and see what sort of answers I get. I'm sure your average 10th-grader could tell you the entire Jersey Shore cast's names. But I doubt they'll give a straight answer on budget deficits, pension plans, contributions compared to the private sector, etc.

I think the problem with standardized testing... is well, some people can't take a test! My sister is extremely intelligent, but she can't take tests. She gets flustered, and starts screwing up. Plus, how do you give one test on everything you've learned the ENTIRE YEAR? I've always had an issue with that, because you get a one week "review" right before the test, and it doesn't really help.

(02-22-2011 05:46 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  One big problem with rating teachers, at least here in Texas, is that the TAKS test is only given to students in certain grades, and teachers are evaluated based on percent passing.

Suppose everybody had to take a standardized test every year, and students were graded by the level they had reached, say 4.3 is third year of fourth grade. Then you could figure out at what level the students came to the teacher and at what level they left. Say a 6th grade teacher has only 50% pass; that sounds bad. But suppose her students came to her averaging 4.3 and left averaging 5.6. She brought them along 1.3 years, which is better than average. Now, track that over a series of years, and the breaks even out--those days when a student stayed up all night before the test because here parents were fighting, or when a student is sick, etc. Let the world know that Mr. Jones's 6th graders progress an average of 0.9 years, while Ms. Smith's 6th graders progress an average of 1.3 years, and give famililes vouchers to spend where they get their education. Now you can bring some market forces to bear on the problem.

I know that's not perfect, but I can't think of anything any better. Can anyone?

I think it's a good start. That's one of the major issues, you don't want to get blamed for students who came into your class unprepared. How often do they take standardized tests now? Every year? I'm sure there are other things that need to be considered. Like if you have special needs children that require more time.

That's assuming the standardized tests are a good indicator of what needs to be learned.

(02-22-2011 05:59 PM)CountryRedHawk Wrote:  I think the problem with standardized testing... is well, some people can't take a test! My sister is extremely intelligent, but she can't take tests. She gets flustered, and starts screwing up. Plus, how do you give one test on everything you've learned the ENTIRE YEAR? I've always had an issue with that, because you get a one week "review" right before the test, and it doesn't really help.

My kiid is very smart and can't take tests either. But the bottom line is when I need a doctor or lawyer I want one that took and passed the tests used to certify them. I'm trying to drill that into my kid with no luck. Maybe one of the noobs on this board will see a doctor who took a substandard test but not me.

Anyway, how do you know if someone knows something unless they're tested? I really believe a 5th grader in LA should have the same curriculum and tests as a kid in Boston. Any reason why they shouldn't?

(02-22-2011 05:59 PM)CountryRedHawk Wrote:  I think the problem with standardized testing... is well, some people can't take a test! My sister is extremely intelligent, but she can't take tests. She gets flustered, and starts screwing up. Plus, how do you give one test on everything you've learned the ENTIRE YEAR? I've always had an issue with that, because you get a one week "review" right before the test, and it doesn't really help.

So what do you do instead?

(02-22-2011 10:31 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-22-2011 05:59 PM)CountryRedHawk Wrote:  I think the problem with standardized testing... is well, some people can't take a test! My sister is extremely intelligent, but she can't take tests. She gets flustered, and starts screwing up. Plus, how do you give one test on everything you've learned the ENTIRE YEAR? I've always had an issue with that, because you get a one week "review" right before the test, and it doesn't really help.

So what do you do instead?

Kids with special needs get tested differently. Everyone else takes the standard test.

Thats BS.... they can't read labels on food or beer bottles, but cheeseheads can read.