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US Debt skyrockets past total GDP
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #101
RE: US Debt skyrockets past total GDP
(02-17-2011 02:41 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  I mean regarding the money though. There has to be a certain point where they don't get any welfare dollars, right?

They don't distribute it the same way we do here. You basically start out with a number, say $10,000 for a family of four. Then as you make money, you pay part of it back as taxes, say 25%. So at $40,000 you break even and above that you owe the government, net. And the in-kind benefits like health care and child care are granted to everyone and don't go away. Bill Gates gets those, Warren Buffett gets those.

And it's usually just handled through your paycheck. Since there are no itemized deductions, it's just a percent of your paycheck is paid to the government and at the end of the year you are done and dusted. No April 15, no 1040, none of that.

Problem with this system for us is that it doesn't create the legion of jobs for sociology majors that "means testing" does. This is one place were republicans really are stupid and democrats really are evil. Republican insistence on "means testing" everything means creating thousands of high-paying jobs for left-leaning sociology majors. They'd all be out of work, probably wouldn't save us more than a few hundred billion a year. And real estate values in the DC metro area would suck. You'd probably have realtors trying to jump off the Washington Monument. And probably a hundred universities would have to shut down their sociology departments.

I'm considered a righty on here, and admittedly with justification. But we could learn a lot from the European socialist countries too. Unfortunately, this administration seems hell-bent on adopting their worst practices instead of their best practices.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2011 02:52 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
02-17-2011 02:49 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #102
RE: US Debt skyrockets past total GDP
(02-17-2011 02:49 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(02-17-2011 02:41 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  I mean regarding the money though. There has to be a certain point where they don't get any welfare dollars, right?

They don't distribute it the same way we do here. You basically start out with a number, say $10,000 for a family of four. Then as you make money, you pay part of it back as taxes, say 25%. So at $40,000 you break even and above that you owe the government, net. And the in-kind benefits like health care and child care are granted to everyone and don't go away. Bill Gates gets those, Warren Buffett gets those.

And it's usually just handled through your paycheck. Since there are no itemized deductions, it's just a percent of your paycheck is paid to the government and at the end of the year you are done and dusted. No April 15, no 1040, none of that.

Problem with this system for us is that it doesn't create the legion of jobs for sociology majors that "means testing" does. This is one place were republicans really are stupid and democrats really are evil. Republican insistence on "means testing" everything means creating thousands of high-paying jobs for left-leaning sociology majors. They'd all be out of work, probably wouldn't save us more than a few hundred billion a year. And real estate values in the DC metro area would suck. You'd probably have realtors trying to jump off the Washington Monument.

I'm considered a righty on here, and admittedly with justification. But we could learn a lot from the European socialist countries too. Unfortunately, this administration seems hell-bent on adopting their worst practices instead of their best practices.

Didn't realize they did it that way. I had thought a while ago that we needed to do something like that here so you don't lose everything by getting a job. So I'd agree with that 100%.

Sociology - yuk. That was the most boring class I ever took. Compared to that my English class was positively riveting. Just my 2 cents though.
02-17-2011 02:58 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #103
RE: US Debt skyrockets past total GDP
(02-17-2011 02:58 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Didn't realize they did it that way. I had thought a while ago that we needed to do something like that here so you don't lose everything by getting a job. So I'd agree with that 100%.
Sociology - yuk. That was the most boring class I ever took. Compared to that my English class was positively riveting. Just my 2 cents though.

Where Obama is taking us is where Europe went 60 years ago. They've learned from their mistakes and actually have a pretty workable system in a lot of ways. Of course, it'd be a lot more workable if they weren't burdened with the remnants of 60 years of mistakes.

I would hope that we would learn from their mistakes instead of having to repeat them ourselves. But neither republicans nor democrats seem much interested in learning anything that might conflict with their talking points.
02-17-2011 03:19 PM
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NIU05 Offline
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Post: #104
RE: US Debt skyrockets past total GDP
(02-17-2011 07:50 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  
(02-16-2011 10:40 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  Our debt is greater than our ability to pay it off. The Chinese are no longer the largest holder of US debt, guess who? The Fed Reserve. They PRINT paper and give it our our public servants to pi** it in the wind. Printing paper in MASSIVE quantities makes the paper worthless. Quoting the Hunt for Red October, ..."You arrogant ass! You've killed us!"..F^^^ Bernake, the bankers and political elite.

China owns 7% of our debt, they have an economy 1/3 the size of the United States with a vastly larger population. CONservatives seem to thrive on fear, I am BULLISH on America :patriot:

You can NOT be that dumb.

The point is not how much China owns, the point is how much the FED owns. Do you have even a clue as to what this implies? a rudimentary idea of what the FED is doing to the value of the dollar? the attack on savers?

BTW....this has absolutely NOTHING to do with being a liberal or a conservative. NOTHING. It is the bankers and the political elite play fast and loose with our savings and a lack of bidders for our paper, a lack of REAL demand. Not this BS with CBs circle jerking each other bidding on each others paper.
02-17-2011 07:36 PM
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Post: #105
RE: US Debt skyrockets past total GDP
(02-17-2011 07:36 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  
(02-17-2011 07:50 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  
(02-16-2011 10:40 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  Our debt is greater than our ability to pay it off. The Chinese are no longer the largest holder of US debt, guess who? The Fed Reserve. They PRINT paper and give it our our public servants to pi** it in the wind. Printing paper in MASSIVE quantities makes the paper worthless. Quoting the Hunt for Red October, ..."You arrogant ass! You've killed us!"..F^^^ Bernake, the bankers and political elite.

China owns 7% of our debt, they have an economy 1/3 the size of the United States with a vastly larger population. CONservatives seem to thrive on fear, I am BULLISH on America :patriot:

You can NOT be that dumb.

The point is not how much China owns, the point is how much the FED owns. Do you have even a clue as to what this implies? a rudimentary idea of what the FED is doing to the value of the dollar? the attack on savers?

BTW....this has absolutely NOTHING to do with being a liberal or a conservative. NOTHING. It is the bankers and the political elite play fast and loose with our savings and a lack of bidders for our paper, a lack of REAL demand. Not this BS with CBs circle jerking each other bidding on each others paper.

Oh yes I can be that dumb. While the Fed holds most of our debt they own roughly the same amount as the Chinese and Japan (each between 7 & 8%). Debts and deficits are bad for the country, they were bad under Reagan,Bush, Dubya and Obama. Where were you then? Obama has stated himself the current spending and debt levels aren't sustainable. Calm down and lets elect a government that works for America and not the home district. I still believe in America, If thats dumb then so be it. We survived Dubya and we'll survive Obama.
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2011 10:28 PM by Mr. Peanut.)
02-17-2011 10:27 PM
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Post: #106
RE: US Debt skyrockets past total GDP
(02-17-2011 07:50 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  . CONservatives seem to thrive on fear, I am BULLISH on America :patriot:

Really? Aren't you the guy who said keep abortion legal or people will go to the back alley's to get them? Fear.

And aren't you the one who insisted 2010 was the hottest year on record, and the earth is warming? Fear.

Didn't you post that we need to have "equal representation" for Jews, Hindis, Buddhists, gays, etc. Fear.

What about the protests in WI? FEAR about losing collective bargaining "rights".

What about teaching ID in public schools? FEAR that kids will become "indoctrinated."

Restrictive gun laws and conceal carry permits? FEAR

Facts. Every single one of them.
02-18-2011 08:55 AM
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BlazerFan11 Offline
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Post: #107
RE: US Debt skyrockets past total GDP
(02-17-2011 10:27 PM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  
(02-17-2011 07:36 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  
(02-17-2011 07:50 AM)Mr. Peanut Wrote:  
(02-16-2011 10:40 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  Our debt is greater than our ability to pay it off. The Chinese are no longer the largest holder of US debt, guess who? The Fed Reserve. They PRINT paper and give it our our public servants to pi** it in the wind. Printing paper in MASSIVE quantities makes the paper worthless. Quoting the Hunt for Red October, ..."You arrogant ass! You've killed us!"..F^^^ Bernake, the bankers and political elite.

China owns 7% of our debt, they have an economy 1/3 the size of the United States with a vastly larger population. CONservatives seem to thrive on fear, I am BULLISH on America :patriot:

You can NOT be that dumb.

The point is not how much China owns, the point is how much the FED owns. Do you have even a clue as to what this implies? a rudimentary idea of what the FED is doing to the value of the dollar? the attack on savers?

BTW....this has absolutely NOTHING to do with being a liberal or a conservative. NOTHING. It is the bankers and the political elite play fast and loose with our savings and a lack of bidders for our paper, a lack of REAL demand. Not this BS with CBs circle jerking each other bidding on each others paper.

Oh yes I can be that dumb. While the Fed holds most of our debt they own roughly the same amount as the Chinese and Japan (each between 7 & 8%). Debts and deficits are bad for the country, they were bad under Reagan,Bush, Dubya and Obama. Where were you then? Obama has stated himself the current spending and debt levels aren't sustainable. Calm down and lets elect a government that works for America and not the home district. I still believe in America, If thats dumb then so be it. We survived Dubya and we'll survive Obama.

So what? Talk is cheap. What have you seen that makes you think he's serious about getting rid of the deficit (and I'm not talking about snipping a little here and there)?
02-18-2011 09:39 AM
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