(02-07-2011 04:32 PM)Vottomatic Wrote:  

(02-07-2011 02:51 PM)ctipton Wrote:  Mick Cronin, Yancy Gates need each other more than ever
Daugherty: Without Gates, the Bearcats are an NIT team

By Paul Daugherty • pdaugherty@enquirer.com • February 7, 2011

(snipped).....We can assume Gates was none of the above Friday, when the Bearcats left for Pittsburgh without him. How can a three-year starter and the crown jewel of Cronin’s local recruiting efforts not understand what he needs to do, simply to wear the uniform? Why hasn’t Cronin succeeded in getting that message across to such an important player?

What’s beyond questioning is this: Without Gates, the Bearcats are an NIT team, again, and Cronin’s head will remain squarely in the tight noose of lousy public opinion.

It’s a fine line coaches walk in big-time college basketball. The ledge of integrity can be paper thin. The abyss of winning is huge and growing. Walking the ledge with nine toes in the abyss is the goal. Good luck achieving it.

Lose the battle, win the war. This is what Cronin believes. It’s a good belief. It’s indisputable, in practical terms. Sitting Gates at Pitt certainly didn’t help UC get the signature win it needs desperately to please the Selection Committee. But not sitting Gates, and ignoring his attitude, might have poisoned the entire team.

“It’s always been a long-term process’’ at UC, Cronin said. “I’ve always been realistic with the process. Your program has to stand for certain things. The minute you begin to sacrifice that, you compromise your credibility as a coach. You’ll pay the price in the long run.’’

He’s entirely correct, of course.

What if there is no long run?

I asked Cronin if it took courage for him to sit his best player in a big game. His answer reflected the fundamental push-pull between what is right and what helps you win. It was a good answer, the best. How it helps Cronin win games is anyone’s guess.

“The fact you had to ask that question is a sad indictment on our society, and what winning has become in amateur sports,’’ Cronin said. “I like to think I’m still part of amateur athletics. Life lessons are a big part of it.

“(Gates’) athletic career has been a process of telling him how great he is. Not his immediate family, but everyone around him. He’s a microcosm of today’s athlete. He’s far from the only guy on our team or any team that deals (poorly) with taking responsibility for their own actions.’’

Gates has been frustrating to watch at times. Much is expected from a player with that body and that ability. He’d be more effective if he’d keep his imposing, double-wide self on the low block. He’d be better if he ran the floor hard all the time. He’d be better if he flexed his biceps more.

There is no mean streak there.

Sometimes, there should be.

“His effort has dipped since Big East play,’’ Cronin said. The coach pointed to Gates’ 13 offensive rebounds in nine conference games. “I’m not happy with his effort.’’ Playing hard all the time “has been a challenge’’ for Gates, Cronin said.

It’s safe to say Cronin has exhausted his motivational catalog as it applies to Gates. He has yelled at Gates, has coddled him, has publicly praised his diligence this year. What he hasn’t done is gotten the best from him, consistently.

“Your job as a coach is to get your players better, by all means necessary,’’ Cronin said. Most of the necessary means have been used. At some point, a player has to find a mirror and gaze at it. If he doesn’t, what then?

Mick Cronin and Yancy Gates are about to find out. They need each other now. More than ever.

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll...302070128/

===================================

Okay. That was a good article by P-Doc.

No matter what I think of Cronin's game strategies and in game adjustments, I will say that he sure does come across as a man who atleast upholds the rules and enforces them.

As far as I know, since he's been hired, the thug image and no graduation image has gone away. And he has laid his rules down on Alvin Mitchell, Bishop, and Gates. I will credit him for that.

My question would be, why so long to do anything about it? Yancy seems to have had this problem for most of his 3 years.

There is a small conspiracy theorist in me that thinks this is a motivational ploy at just the right time to fire up Gates and the rest of the team. We shall see how they respond in this final stretch of games.

If Gates brings it down the home stretch, and the good defense persists, and some other guys step up, they might finish strong.

Here's hoping things start going in the right direction.

votto, I hope so. This team needs to finish strong.

Silly and acting like an 11 year old. My sincere apologies to 11 year olds everywhere.

Maybe we could sticky EVERYTHING Bearcat, so that we don't have to come here and discuss it.

Definition of FORUM (according to Webster)
1a : the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business b : a public meeting place for open discussion c : a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas
2: a judicial body or assembly : court
3a : a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion b : a program (as on radio or television) involving discussion of a problem usually by several authorities (sic) without making
contributors feel silly.

(02-07-2011 11:52 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Silly and acting like an 11 year old. My sincere apologies to 11 year olds everywhere.

Honestly I rarely read your posts and until now have never commented on them,I work with people all day who think they are smarter than they actually are so I would rather not deal with the same type of person at night,so I will make you a deal I wont comment on yours you don't comment on mine.Thanks and have a nice night.

Oh, boo hoo.

Put me on ignore, mikey. Make your life easier at night after being picked on all day by those smarty pants cubicle mates.

(02-08-2011 12:20 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Oh, boo hoo.

Put me on ignore, mikey. Make your life easier at night after being picked on all day by those smarty pants cubicle mates.

Hey Rath,thanks for the advice,I finally got something useful out of one your posts.Consider it done Thanks again Mikey!!

(02-07-2011 11:19 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  We need to sticky the gate info to keep people from looking silly when pushing their opinion. How many have tried this over the years?

Were you at the last football game this year? My point was proven then, and yet you two keep on with this. Kind of makes you both look silly.

I say we make Rath change his name to "Silly Rath v2.0".

(I'm just making "silly" jokes. Don't put me in the middle of this argument!)

On a serious note..........I actually am starting to have a good feeling about the finish of this season.

1. This whole incident with Gates couldn't have happened at a better time (home stretch). I look for him and maybe his teammates to be fired up.

2. UC can't play much worse offensively. At some point, somebody is going to start hitting some shots.

3. With UC's depth, they should be more fresh than some other teams who are possibly getting worn down. If Mick uses our depth properly, it should be an advantage.

4. The defense has been a mainstay for the most part.

(02-07-2011 03:22 PM)mikecat Wrote:  so keep him,and continue to draw between 4000-6300 fan a night in 13,176 seat building

I am fairly certain that since the Shoe opened we have only had one, maybe two seasons where we sold out every home game. In fact I remember Huggs complaining all the time about not selling out.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't his quote about the lack of fan support the infamous "F 'em. Just F 'em".

Certainly our numbers are down since Huggs left. But even when UC was at it's peak we usually averaged 10k-11k per game, below a sell-out. Now we are down to what so far this season? 6k? And three of our next four games (UL, UCONN, Georgetown) should be some of the biggest home games we have outside of XU and WVA, so that will increase the season attendance average too.

So what it boils down to is that the best case scenerio if we got the best most popular coach around would be maybe 3k more in attendance for most games. I'm not saying that wouldn't increase the dollars in the till though.

maybe it's just me, but i don't think a disagreement over attendance figures rises to the level of "let's insult fellow bearcat fans."

so, simmer down now.

best,

dad.

(02-08-2011 10:02 AM)Vottomatic Wrote:  On a serious note..........I actually am starting to have a good feeling about the finish of this season.

1. This whole incident with Gates couldn't have happened at a better time (home stretch). I look for him and maybe his teammates to be fired up.

2. UC can't play much worse offensively. At some point, somebody is going to start hitting some shots.

3. With UC's depth, they should be more fresh than some other teams who are possibly getting worn down. If Mick uses our depth properly, it should be an advantage.

4. The defense has been a mainstay for the most part.

1. I agree. I think it could have been purposeful timing on Mick's part, but obviously there was a blow up last week that precipitated it. I'm more than fine with it either way. Lord knows, a kick in the ass has been long overdue for Gates.
2. I agree with one caveat. I don't think we've played poorly offensively, we just have shot the ball abysmally. I see us running good offense for the most part (some exceptions), but we are missing so many open shots...hopefully we're due for a few of those to go down the hole.
3. I agree 100%, and I think he has used the bench very well all year and we probably have seen fewer injuries as a result.
4. Yep. Would be nice to see Larry and Dion pick it back up, because they haven't been quite as good on D lately, but they have it in them.

(02-08-2011 10:29 AM)gruehls Wrote:  maybe it's just me, but i don't think a disagreement over attendance figures rises to the level of "let's insult fellow bearcat fans."

so, simmer down now.

best,

dad.

Yes sir,I agree it wont happen again.

Does anyone know if Gates is playing tonight?

(02-08-2011 10:02 AM)Vottomatic Wrote:  On a serious note..........I actually am starting to have a good feeling about the finish of this season.

1. This whole incident with Gates couldn't have happened at a better time (home stretch). I look for him and maybe his teammates to be fired up.

2. UC can't play much worse offensively. At some point, somebody is going to start hitting some shots.

3. With UC's depth, they should be more fresh than some other teams who are possibly getting worn down. If Mick uses our depth properly, it should be an advantage.

4. The defense has been a mainstay for the most part.

Agree.

It is a fact. We are not a top 10 team, and most nights will not beat a top 10 team; but did anyone in their wildest dreams think that without Yancy we would be within 8 points with 39 seconds to go against the no. 4 team, on their home court and with QSEC in attendance to boot?

Louisville, GTWN (2), UConn, Marq. I predict we beat a couple of these guys.

(02-08-2011 10:02 AM)namrag Wrote:  I am fairly certain that since the Shoe opened we have only had one, maybe two seasons where we sold out every home game. In fact I remember Huggs complaining all the time about not selling out.

Certainly our numbers are down since Huggs left. But even when UC was at it's peak we usually averaged 10k-11k per game, below a sell-out. Now we are down to what so far this season? 6k? And three of our next four games (UL, UCONN, Georgetown) should be some of the biggest home games we have outside of XU and WVA, so that will increase the season attendance average too.

So what it boils down to is that the best case scenerio if we got the best most popular coach around would be maybe 3k more in attendance for most games. I'm not saying that wouldn't increase the dollars in the till though.

2005 UC #27 with an average attendance of 11,304

2004 UC #24 12,806

2003 UC #25 12,182

2002 UC#25 12,058

2001 UC #19 12,906

2000 UC #23 13,176

NCAA Men's Basketball Attendance

Honestly, I think McClain gives UC more than Gates does. Biggie may be slow, but he plays hard and he plays big. Gates doesn't play hard and plays small (he might as well be 6'3, 190 lbs instead of 6'9, 260 lbs for how weak he plays).

(02-08-2011 01:36 PM)Crewdogz Wrote:  

(02-08-2011 10:02 AM)namrag Wrote:  I am fairly certain that since the Shoe opened we have only had one, maybe two seasons where we sold out every home game. In fact I remember Huggs complaining all the time about not selling out.

Certainly our numbers are down since Huggs left. But even when UC was at it's peak we usually averaged 10k-11k per game, below a sell-out. Now we are down to what so far this season? 6k? And three of our next four games (UL, UCONN, Georgetown) should be some of the biggest home games we have outside of XU and WVA, so that will increase the season attendance average too.

So what it boils down to is that the best case scenerio if we got the best most popular coach around would be maybe 3k more in attendance for most games. I'm not saying that wouldn't increase the dollars in the till though.

2005 UC #27 with an average attendance of 11,304

2004 UC #24 12,806

2003 UC #25 12,182

2002 UC#25 12,058

2001 UC #19 12,906

2000 UC #23 13,176

NCAA Men's Basketball Attendance

hey crew nice work,can you post the next 5 years of attendance..

(02-08-2011 03:25 PM)mikecat Wrote:  hey crew nice work,can you post the next 5 years of attendance..

2006: 9,300 #53
2007: 8,831 #63
2008: 8,534 #63
2009: 7,818 #70
2010: 8,076 #64

(02-08-2011 03:33 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(02-08-2011 03:25 PM)mikecat Wrote:  hey crew nice work,can you post the next 5 years of attendance..

2006: 9,300 #53
2007: 8,831 #63
2008: 8,534 #63
2009: 7,818 #70
2010: 8,076 #64

so basically down about 3,000 to 5,000,thanks coop