http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...98754.html

Can't say I buy into all of it, but it's worth considering some major points. Certainly this is a piece that merits long consideration,

Quote:What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at it. To get good at anything you have to work, and children on their own never want to work, which is why it is crucial to override their preferences. This often requires fortitude on the part of the parents because the child will resist; things are always hardest at the beginning, which is where Western parents tend to give up. But if done properly, the Chinese strategy produces a virtuous circle. Tenacious practice, practice, practice is crucial for excellence; rote repetition is underrated in America. Once a child starts to excel at something—whether it's math, piano, pitching or ballet—he or she gets praise, admiration and satisfaction. This builds confidence and makes the once not-fun activity fun. This in turn makes it easier for the parent to get the child to work even more.

The quoted part makes total sense, Torch. A parent that shows interest in their kid's schooling (as in, forces them to do their homework and actually learn) has a smarter kid. Novel concept...

(01-10-2011 09:30 AM)mlb Wrote:  The quoted part makes total sense, Torch. A parent that shows interest in their kid's schooling (as in, forces them to do their homework and actually learn) has a smarter kid. Novel concept...

If you haven't read the article, I hope you will mlb. I think the author makes a big distincition between what a western (her word) parent would call "shows interest" and the way a chinese mother acts.

(01-10-2011 09:42 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(01-10-2011 09:30 AM)mlb Wrote:  The quoted part makes total sense, Torch. A parent that shows interest in their kid's schooling (as in, forces them to do their homework and actually learn) has a smarter kid. Novel concept...

If you haven't read the article, I hope you will mlb. I think the author makes a big distincition between what a western (her word) parent would call "shows interest" and the way a chinese mother acts.

I read it... they make their kids practice things at home for 3 hours at night. They don't allow their kids to play video games, watch TV, etc. I am not a fan of forcing your kid to do things for long periods of time like that, but obviously they get results with it. I think at some point you risk burning the kid out, causing them to hate it even if they are very good at the task you force them to practice. They get an hour at school in the subject, get homework from their teacher with more work, then giving them another 3 hours possibly at home seems like overkill.

I guess my thoughts are that there are games that promote math, or science, or whatever, without the kids realizing it. I realize you don't want to have your kids playing first person shooters all night long, but a video game that promotes math, reading, etc., can be just as effective as making them sit down and work the problems. It probably also helps them socially, as there is interaction. Moderation is key... allowing/having your kid play video games or watch TV all day is obviously not good.

At the end of this, I still think both sides are probably getting a good education. If your parents are involved and forcing you to do the work assigned to you, you will learn. If your parents don't make sure you do your work, you won't. That simple.

I don't know if you've actually ever been around these "Chinese parents" but they are culturally similar to drill instructors/assembly line workers in the household. No matter how you feel about the subject now, if you actually went in the house while they actually parented, you'd have no choice but to feel sorry for the kid. They have a very efficient method, but it in my opinion, children are the opposite of efficient.

(01-10-2011 09:30 AM)mlb Wrote:  The quoted part makes total sense, Torch. A parent that shows interest in their kid's schooling (as in, forces them to do their homework and actually learn) has a smarter kid. Novel concept...

IMHO this mom goes way too far... Some stuff is fine but other stuff is awful

No Playdates? WTH?

I understand your criticisms. Certainly I think this woman has overlooked a great deal. She is in fact, a law professor, one who has cloistered herself inside the halls of academe, and in a field with little basis in reality.

However, I do think paring back the playtime, and insisting that repitition leads to mastery, which leads to enjoyment and satisfaction, is an important concept for people understand.

"Mastery" is what I stated is the strategy that schools should use in teaching. Whatever it is they're doing now is failing.

Good article. However I see many Chinese Americans who can't drive or gamble very well.

(01-10-2011 01:56 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Good article. However I see many Chinese Americans who can't drive or gamble very well.

Yeah, I think Drivers Ed is on that list along w/ HS boyfriends and school plays.

(01-10-2011 01:53 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  I understand your criticisms. Certainly I think this woman has overlooked a great deal. She is in fact, a law professor, one who has cloistered herself inside the halls of academe, and in a field with little basis in reality.

However, I do think paring back the playtime, and insisting that repitition leads to mastery, which leads to enjoyment and satisfaction, is an important concept for people understand.

"Mastery" is what I stated is the strategy that schools should use in teaching. Whatever it is they're doing now is failing.

There is a middle ground she is as far as the people who she is going after.

Kids should be allowed to pick one activity that is theirs, not something their sibling does.

Kids should have some play time with other kids, play dates are nice because you can set the place and parties.

Kids should learn to play an instrument and piano is a good one but at *some* point you need to let them decide to play something else.

(01-10-2011 01:56 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Good article. However I see many Chinese Americans who can't drive or gamble very well.

Every immigrant who does not come here for Welfare or for 'ease' do very well.. African Immigrants, Asian, European, ....

compare your average first Generation black kid to the average african american who culturally American... Notice the difference.

(01-10-2011 01:53 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  I understand your criticisms. Certainly I think this woman has overlooked a great deal. She is in fact, a law professor, one who has cloistered herself inside the halls of academe, and in a field with little basis in reality.

However, I do think paring back the playtime, and insisting that repitition leads to mastery, which leads to enjoyment and satisfaction, is an important concept for people understand.

"Mastery" is what I stated is the strategy that schools should use in teaching. Whatever it is they're doing now is failing.

I understand what you are saying but as in everything else, one method isn't necessarily better than the other and they won't work for everyone. Sometimes when you try that method you end up with a kid who will be great at math but will **** themselves when a girl walks up and talks to them.

I also believe that old school repetition leads to mastery, but there's gonna come a time where their mastery and interests don't mix. Believe me, my mom killed me with reading assignments after school and I became the best reader/writer in my classes. I still hate to do both.

I wonder if that article was written partially tongue-in-cheek. Either that, or I need to call my parents and thank them for letting me be a child.

What happens when 20 of these Chinese-mothered kids all end up in the same class? An arms-race? They can't all earn As. They can't all be the best. Someone comes in second place at the recital.

And really, it's not particularly surprising (or at all indicative of a cultural trait) that a group of immigrants who landed one of very few visas allocated for several million people interested in emigrating would go on to teach their children that relentless hard work is required to succeed.