The FCS is dying but I still don't fault Montana for not going to the WAC. The travel expense alone makes it not worth it. Montana needs to wait and see if it can get a MWC invite. If not,then they need to look at getting the Dakota programs along with programs from Idaho to form a new conference.
their crowds are already significantly larger than all of our programs. and travel expenses in the WAC are no longer going to be all that great with the exception of Hawaii. They are no more than the belt now.
(11-17-2010 11:51 AM)theATLDawg Wrote: their crowds are already significantly larger than all of our programs. and travel expenses in the WAC are no longer going to be all that great with the exception of Hawaii. They are no more than the belt now.
You know. The Sun Belt has had some bad days but we never offered a football membership to a school that hasn't played football.
Nor in the darkest of days have we had in one day:
The announcement of three members (including previously mentioned never fielded a team member)
Had a membership offer publicly rejected
Then had a bowl game announce they were invoking their right to break the contract to be rid of the league.
As I've said before I still think Karl Benson's biggest problems are his employers, but the man has had an incredible run of luck.
In this decade.
Publicly rejected by FCS Montana.
Cuts deal to get BYU for everything but football then sees it collapse as two members bail for the MWC.
Publicly rejected by North Texas and UL.
Announced pursuit of Tulane and Houston as members and the next press release is SMU, Tulsa, and Rice leaving to join Houston and Tulane in CUSA.
Had a bowl he was putting a reported $400,000 into each year fold. The same bowl, which was one of two they had a tie with that despite that check being written refused a request to take the WAC champion and opted to take the WAC #3 marking the last time Boise State didn't go to bowl.
The descent is really amazing. The first two teams the league lost went to the Pac-8. They easily raided the Big West at will and successfully (though I'd argue it led to their downfall) lobbied to get TCU, SMU, Rice, and Tulsa to join rather than join CUSA or potentially kill CUSA by forming their own SWC wreckage league.
Amazing how what was at one time a seriously top-notch league fell apart because a group of presidents disregard every bit of credible advice and went to 16 rather than 12, then acted shocked (shocked I tell you!) when they figured out that adding 6 teams to convince ABC to leave the TV contract at the same dollars wasn't financially smart, nor was adding so many teams that good gate receipt games fell off the schedule.
I give them credit for trying to be innovative but while Expansion/Montana/New Mexico Bowl day was the worst day in WAC history, it was set in motion with the ill-thought-out mega-expansion, and their fate likely sealed when the MWC elected to start with 8 rather than 9, 10, or 12 members because that started the ugly chain of events that followed.
(This post was last modified: 11-17-2010 01:59 PM by arkstfan.)
(11-17-2010 01:58 PM)arkstfan Wrote: You know. The Sun Belt has had some bad days but we never offered a football membership to a school that hasn't played football.
Nor in the darkest of days have we had in one day:
The announcement of three members (including previously mentioned never fielded a team member)
Had a membership offer publicly rejected
Then had a bowl game announce they were invoking their right to break the contract to be rid of the league.
As I've said before I still think Karl Benson's biggest problems are his employers, but the man has had an incredible run of luck.
In this decade.
Publicly rejected by FCS Montana.
Cuts deal to get BYU for everything but football then sees it collapse as two members bail for the MWC.
Publicly rejected by North Texas and UL.
Announced pursuit of Tulane and Houston as members and the next press release is SMU, Tulsa, and Rice leaving to join Houston and Tulane in CUSA.
Had a bowl he was putting a reported $400,000 into each year fold. The same bowl, which was one of two they had a tie with that despite that check being written refused a request to take the WAC champion and opted to take the WAC #3 marking the last time Boise State didn't go to bowl.
The descent is really amazing. The first two teams the league lost went to the Pac-8. They easily raided the Big West at will and successfully (though I'd argue it led to their downfall) lobbied to get TCU, SMU, Rice, and Tulsa to join rather than join CUSA or potentially kill CUSA by forming their own SWC wreckage league.
Amazing how what was at one time a seriously top-notch league fell apart because a group of presidents disregard every bit of credible advice and went to 16 rather than 12, then acted shocked (shocked I tell you!) when they figured out that adding 6 teams to convince ABC to leave the TV contract at the same dollars wasn't financially smart, nor was adding so many teams that good gate receipt games fell off the schedule.
I give them credit for trying to be innovative but while Expansion/Montana/New Mexico Bowl day was the worst day in WAC history, it was set in motion with the ill-thought-out mega-expansion, and their fate likely sealed when the MWC elected to start with 8 rather than 9, 10, or 12 members because that started the ugly chain of events that followed.
(11-17-2010 11:51 AM)theATLDawg Wrote: their crowds are already significantly larger than all of our programs. and travel expenses in the WAC are no longer going to be all that great with the exception of Hawaii. They are no more than the belt now.
Adding FCS Texas State, non-football football member UTSA, and non-football Denver, will help WAC travel costs but the WAC/Sun Belt travel cost differential has been misleadingly mis-stated by some people who seem to want to compare travel out of Ruston to travel out of Lafayette when the honest comparison is Ruston vs. Monroe.
Using the last two years numbers are available to adjust for the variance from year to year (07/08 and 08/09) added together and divided by two you get this in travel expense
Louisiana Tech $2,212,161
ULM $1,008,797
ULM loses one of their expensive trips and Tech picks it up but Tech also drops three expensive trips. At 7.5 and 8.25 hours to Texas State and UTSA, those become feasible bus trips. Depending on the program and sport, in Division I, 4 to 8 hours is generally considered the bus trip limit. So dumping two flights is a travel positive. If Hawaii stays and Tech doesn't replace the missing league games with long trips probably a savings of maybe as much as $400,000 in there, though that is probably a high estimate.
If Hawaii leaves in the near-term a good bit of the travel savings is lost by losing the NCAA basketball units and the auto bids.
BTW, while Hawai'i has generally been a nutty program, I don't think they can find a league that will take them for other sports without significant subsidy that they probably cannot afford to give. Don't see them going anywhere unless someone cooks up a second set of books for the state auditors.
(11-17-2010 04:26 PM)arkstfan Wrote: BTW, while Hawai'i has generally been a nutty program, I don't think they can find a league that will take them for other sports without significant subsidy that they probably cannot afford to give. Don't see them going anywhere unless someone cooks up a second set of books for the state auditors.
Anyone think it is possible that Hawaii becomes the WAC's new Boise? Think about it, if they play a patsy OOC schedule and then steamroll the lightweights in the WAC each season, they could easily go undefeated or be a one loss team every year. Not saying they reach Boise levels but could be enough to buoy the WAC and keep the conference relevant.
(11-17-2010 04:26 PM)arkstfan Wrote: BTW, while Hawai'i has generally been a nutty program, I don't think they can find a league that will take them for other sports without significant subsidy that they probably cannot afford to give. Don't see them going anywhere unless someone cooks up a second set of books for the state auditors.
Anyone think it is possible that Hawaii becomes the WAC's new Boise? Think about it, if they play a patsy OOC schedule and then steamroll the lightweights in the WAC each season, they could easily go undefeated or be a one loss team every year. Not saying they reach Boise levels but could be enough to buoy the WAC and keep the conference relevant.
Hawaii did that already and then looked like a deer caught in the headlights in the Sugar Bowl. Surely, the system will not allow that to happen again. I do not see Hawaii filling that role for the WAC.
(11-17-2010 11:51 AM)theATLDawg Wrote: their crowds are already significantly larger than all of our programs. and travel expenses in the WAC are no longer going to be all that great with the exception of Hawaii. They are no more than the belt now.
Adding FCS Texas State, non-football football member UTSA, and non-football Denver, will help WAC travel costs but the WAC/Sun Belt travel cost differential has been misleadingly mis-stated by some people who seem to want to compare travel out of Ruston to travel out of Lafayette when the honest comparison is Ruston vs. Monroe.
Using the last two years numbers are available to adjust for the variance from year to year (07/08 and 08/09) added together and divided by two you get this in travel expense
Louisiana Tech $2,212,161
ULM $1,008,797
ULM loses one of their expensive trips and Tech picks it up but Tech also drops three expensive trips. At 7.5 and 8.25 hours to Texas State and UTSA, those become feasible bus trips. Depending on the program and sport, in Division I, 4 to 8 hours is generally considered the bus trip limit. So dumping two flights is a travel positive. If Hawaii stays and Tech doesn't replace the missing league games with long trips probably a savings of maybe as much as $400,000 in there, though that is probably a high estimate.
If Hawaii leaves in the near-term a good bit of the travel savings is lost by losing the NCAA basketball units and the auto bids.
UTSA starts football next year.
2011 UTSA Football Schedule
Sept. 3: Northeastern State
Sept. 10: McMurry
Sept. 17: at Southern Utah
Sept. 24: Bacone College
Oct. 1: at Sam Houston State
Oct. 8: South Alabama
Oct. 15: at UC Davis
Oct. 22: at Northwestern State
Oct. 29: Georgia State
Nov. 12: at McNeese State
Nov. 19: Minot State
UTSA Future opponents - out of conference opponents in 2013 are
