(09-17-2010 08:53 AM)BigDawg Wrote:  

(09-17-2010 08:22 AM)mikecat Wrote:  How in the world do you take an offense that averages 40 pts a game and turn in to this,I dont want to hear excuses about the line 3/5 of the line is back.Kelly would have put up 50 on nc st last night,he would have spread them 5 wide and threw every down,there is no way he would have ran it 31 times 22 of them by collaros.I know they may have called off the dogs at the end of the night but the offense looked alot better throwing it 20 yds down field rather than running Zach up the middle every other play,cmon Butch even if your O-line is your weakness you dont expose it but running up the middle on 1st and 2nd down and then leaving yourself 3rd and long.Go back and watch film of last years team there would be times when they would go 4 to 5 series without running the ball,because the strengh of the team was their WR and QB's not some power running team..cmon Butch your better than this!!!

I understand and do agree, but I want to know where you are throwing the ball to? Look at the WRs and see who gets open (It appears that most guys are covered early and don't have time to get open. All the defense is giving is a little short pass in which they run up and tackle the guy for a short gain. With a 4 man pass rush, ZC is getting pressured and the WRs don't have time to get open. You can't have that. UYou have 5 o-linemen and you must stop 4 guys rushing and we often don't. That means 7 guys back into coverage. Last year Pike and ZC had all day to pass most of the time (Heck and if you think about the times Pike played bad, it was when teams pressured him like Pitt, SF and Florida did early and the offense did nothing in those games when he was pressured). No way BK lights these guys up with this o-line. Maybe he would have coached them up better, who knows, but when 2 guys out there have no business being starters, that is not good. Maybe BK could have done a better job coaching the younger guys instead of spending all of practice with Pike every day, all day. I'm starting to wonder if he had planned to leave UC for anywhere prior to this season after he saw the schedule and the losses he was going to take. I guess there is a reason BK wanted to buy out the Fresno State game if he stayed.

I totally disagree with you,Nc st DB's were no where near our WR's,their philosophy was to send the house and hope they got there before we got rid of the ball and most of the time it worked because we were in bad down and distance situations,if we would have spread them out from the beginning and made them use 5 DB's to guard our 5 wr's that would have changed how they had to line up,you cant rush 7 and leave 4 guys to guard 5.That is the difference between BK and BJ,BK dictated to the defense what we were going to do where BJ is trying to adjust to what D's our doing to us..

Ok my brief take. Watching from up top I thought the offensive line was better today. Nc state sent late blitzes from the outside over and over played our wideouts tight and dared us to beat them down the seems vertically. We never adjusted our schemes to protect against thos late blitzers and zach never recognized it. Hell half the time he seemed to never look.

Part of that seems to come from how confused we seem to be on what we are trying to do offensively. Watch zach, watch the wide receivers, they don't seem to know what they are doing or where to line guys up on every play. Just brutal to watch.

How about butch's lack of game management today. Does he think we bring those timeouts with us? Game is only 13 before the half. We have a minute and three timeouts to get into field position for a field goal and we sit on the ball. Ten and the ball would have been huge for confidence.

The only timeout he used was before a punt and and then it got blocked. Didn;t use timeouts to get the ball back earlier. Seemed to give up in the 3rd quarter.

Lastly... our schemes on kickoff returns and oue execution is horrendous. Mardy could not do anything on this team on kickffs. Sad departure from all the ways we were great last year. A long way to go.

(09-17-2010 03:14 AM)mac6115cd Wrote:  That was very painful to watch. What hurt most, to me, was the overall sloppy play - the team looked to have lost their discipline. Regardless, the players still need our support. It's certainly an uphill climb to a successful transition season, but it will be a lot easier for the Bearcats if we're behind them.

Agreed. I'm staying on the bandwagon!

(09-17-2010 09:26 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Ok my brief take. Watching from up top I thought the offensive line was better today. Nc state sent late blitzes from the outside over and over played our wideouts tight and dared us to beat them down the seems vertically. We never adjusted our schemes to protect against thos late blitzers and zach never recognized it. Hell half the time he seemed to never look.

Part of that seems to come from how confused we seem to be on what we are trying to do offensively. Watch zach, watch the wide receivers, they don't seem to know what they are doing or where to line guys up on every play. Just brutal to watch.

How about butch's lack of game management today. Does he think we bring those timeouts with us? Game is only 13 before the half. We have a minute and three timeouts to get into field position for a field goal and we sit on the ball. Ten and the ball would have been huge for confidence.

The only timeout he used was before a punt and and then it got blocked. Didn;t use timeouts to get the ball back earlier. Seemed to give up in the 3rd quarter.

Lastly... our schemes on kickoff returns and oue execution is horrendous. Mardy could not do anything on this team on kickffs. Sad departure from all the ways we were great last year. A long way to go.

Good take, Mark. It is apparent that we hired a guy that lived off the efforts at CMU of a great QB that he didn't recruit. What may be worse than his game management is the staff that he put together.

Our lack of on the field adjustments, coupled with our strength and conditioning program, is getting kids killed. We did not have these massive injuries with Longo.

Good coaches are hard to find. That's why so few DI programs are consistently successful over the long haul.

(09-16-2010 10:34 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  I am not against firing Butch Jones if this disaster of a season continues; however, a bunch of Rick Minter teams started like this and picked up some wins against the softer part of the schedule. Assuming we lose to Oklahome we need to beat Miami, Louisville, Syracuse, and USF which should happen because those teams really suck too.

If we lose to more than one of those teams goodnight, no bowl game. I hate to say it but I can't stand Butch Jones and would love to see UC fire him. Butch is going to flush everything away from the last four seasons.

Are you kidding? After 3 games you are ready to fire the coach? Have you watched the play of the O-line and defense?

(09-17-2010 09:01 AM)mikecat Wrote:  totally disagree with you,Nc st DB's were no where near our WR's,their philosophy was to send the house and hope they got there before we got rid of the ball and most of the time it worked because we were in bad down and distance situations,if we would have spread them out from the beginning and made them use 5 DB's to guard our 5 wr's that would have changed how they had to line up,you cant rush 7 and leave 4 guys to guard 5.That is the difference between BK and BJ,BK dictated to the defense what we were going to do where BJ is trying to adjust to what D's our doing to us..

Unfortunately injuries and the NCAA have not helped out cause. We have 3 WRs we can count on and one of those is Bones who could not get on the field for BK. Losing Guidugli last night hurt as he can be the 4th (Hope it is not anything major) and then we have to split out a RB and Pead is arguably our best receiving back and he was unavailable more or less. Did not really have the personnel to do that (Though we did try it a few times with some success). But you make a great point and it does appear that is what Jones is doing. He does need to try to dictate better, but I still think the o-line needs to step up. Playcalling could definitely be better, but if the o-line can't get it done, you can only do so much.

I have a feeling we are going to have to look to one of the true freshman WRs to provide some help, but with that there will be growing pains.

(09-17-2010 09:51 AM)Ragpicker Wrote:  Good take, Mark. It is apparent that we hired a guy that lived off the efforts at CMU of a great QB that he didn't recruit. What may be worse than his game management is the staff that he put together.

Our lack of on the field adjustments, coupled with our strength and conditioning program, is getting kids killed. We did not have these massive injuries with Longo.

Injuries are usually freak accidents. Hazelton tore his ACL on a cut that looked like nothing major at all. They happen and have derailed seasons for many teams. We got lucky to have very few injuries that last few seasons. NC State lost 12 starters last year to injuries. It happens and apparently the injury bug is looking for payback.

(09-16-2010 10:34 PM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  I am not against firing Butch Jones if this disaster of a season continues; however, a bunch of Rick Minter teams started like this and picked up some wins against the softer part of the schedule. Assuming we lose to Oklahome we need to beat Miami, Louisville, Syracuse, and USF which should happen because those teams really suck too.

If we lose to more than one of those teams goodnight, no bowl game. I hate to say it but I can't stand Butch Jones and would love to see UC fire him. Butch is going to flush everything away from the last four seasons.

Epic fail....You need to buy a clue!!!

(09-17-2010 08:22 AM)mikecat Wrote:  How in the world do you take an offense that averages 40 pts a game and turn in to this,I dont want to hear excuses about the line 3/5 of the line is back.Kelly would have put up 50 on nc st last night,he would have spread them 5 wide and threw every down,there is no way he would have ran it 31 times 22 of them by collaros.I know they may have called off the dogs at the end of the night but the offense looked alot better throwing it 20 yds down field rather than running Zach up the middle every other play,cmon Butch even if your O-line is your weakness you dont expose it but running up the middle on 1st and 2nd down and then leaving yourself 3rd and long.Go back and watch film of last years team there would be times when they would go 4 to 5 series without running the ball,because the strengh of the team was their WR and QB's not some power running team..cmon Butch your better than this!!!

The 2 lineman not back are currently int he NFL. One was the center. Kind of think those 2 had a lot to do with the cummuncation going on that made the 5/6 man line last season a unit. A coupleof times last night you could see 2 lineman go for one guy who rushed inside leaving an unblocked blitzer going at ZC. Last years leaders are gone and nobody ha stepped up to take their place. Both sides of the ball. That is the biggest factor in the undisiplined look of the team. Who are the leaders on the field this year?

Gents, we have big problems. And they've all been mentioned here. My point is that it's not just that the O-line sucks (it does), or that the D sucks (it does), or that Collaros is clueless (he is), or that we are completely undisciplined in all phases of the game (we are). It's all of the above.

If I just saw guys getting beat then I would say "ok, Butch inherited a marginally talented team, what can he do but rebuild it from here".

But on top of that, there were MANY, MANY, MANY situations where the team made stupid, petty, unforgivable and inexcusable mistakes. From mishandled snaps, to formation penalties, to standing around looking at your teammates for a clue about what the design of the play is, to late hits, wrong reads, etc. I could go on and on.

This is what really makes me wonder about Jones. OK, you've got some talent deficiencies. Fine, but you can at least get those clods to line up on the line of scrimmage. And you can make sure they know the plays that are being called. And you can make some adjustments based on the sell-out blitz that you're seeing on every play. You can do all of these things, if you're a good coach. I haven't seen Butch's ability on any of these things.

I'm VERY concerned. I'm not ready to throw him to the curb yet, but first glance is FUGLY. Perhaps he needs to peel it back and concentrate on the basics with these guys first. Then once they can keep from stepping on their d!cks, maybe throw in some wrinkles. But right now, this is beyond painful.

Only hope is that Butch takes that advice to go back to the drawing board, and that he IS indeed a good recruiter that can get us back on the map in a few years. Because right now we are on LOST island.

(09-17-2010 10:20 AM)bearcatjim Wrote:  Gents, we have big problems. And they've all been mentioned here. My point is that it's not just that the O-line sucks (it does), or that the D sucks (it does), or that Collaros is clueless (he is), or that we are completely undisciplined in all phases of the game (we are). It's all of the above.

If I just saw guys getting beat then I would say "ok, Butch inherited a marginally talented team, what can he do but rebuild it from here".

But on top of that, there were MANY, MANY, MANY situations where the team made stupid, petty, unforgivable and inexcusable mistakes. From mishandled snaps, to formation penalties, to standing around looking at your teammates for a clue about what the design of the play is, to late hits, wrong reads, etc. I could go on and on.

This is what really makes me wonder about Jones. OK, you've got some talent deficiencies. Fine, but you can at least get those clods to line up on the line of scrimmage. And you can make sure they know the plays that are being called. And you can make some adjustments based on the sell-out blitz that you're seeing on every play. You can do all of these things, if you're a good coach. I haven't seen Butch's ability on any of these things.

I'm VERY concerned. I'm not ready to throw him to the curb yet, but first glance is FUGLY. Perhaps he needs to peel it back and concentrate on the basics with these guys first. Then once they can keep from stepping on their d!cks, maybe throw in some wrinkles. But right now, this is beyond painful.

Only hope is that Butch takes that advice to go back to the drawing board, and that he IS indeed a good recruiter that can get us back on the map in a few years. Because right now we are on LOST island.

Good points. I have tried to curb all the fire butch stuff. Maybe Jones expected these guys would be capable of doing more than they are. Apparently not. Hopefully Jones gets it soon and can help the guys understand and learn from the mistakes. At Fresno I though there were a couple missed assignments on defense that were fixable. But it looks like we have a bigger problem. I really hope this team will start to come around.

Well, that was ugly. Good observations by many on the board. It got to the point (quickly) where I just got some good chuckles watching my Cats.

Now, I think I'll que up a rerun of Spanky and Our Gang (aka The Little Rascals), playing some mud football.

Looks like the football team has decided to excel in futility like the basketball team. This should be a fun year of sports.

Argh.

Looks like NC State might have been a bit better than some people on here and in the media gave them credit for. 4-0 after beating GTech by 17 at Tech.