Turbine plan spins onward

Neighbors raise some concerns, but UNT’s proposal earns support

06:59 AM CDT on Monday, September 13, 2010
By Candace Carlisle / Staff Writer

Wind turbines are one step closer to becoming part of the University of North Texas’ new football stadium project, following residents’ general acceptance of the proposal at a recent neighborhood meeting.

Residents’ comments and concerns are being gathered for a feasibility study on the proposal to place three wind turbines next to the stadium, near Bonnie Brae Street, said Rich Escalante, vice chancellor for administrative services with the UNT system.


Courtesy image/HKS Inc.

An artist’s rendering shows planned wind turbines adjacent to the University of North Texas’ new football stadium, slated to open in fall 2011.

“We are committed to sustainability and we would like to have or move forward toward a carbon-neutral campus,” he said. “We want a sustainable structure to use as a teaching tool and something noticeable to visitors.”

The study is being funded by a $200,000 grant awarded to UNT in mid-June by the Texas Comptroller’s State Energy Conservation Office.

Once the study is complete, the conservation office could award UNT with an additional $1.8 million to construct the wind turbines.

The proposal would need approval from the UNT president and the Board of Regents, Escalante said.

The three turbines, described by university officials as “community-scaled wind turbines,” are about 125 feet tall with a blade length of 30 feet. They would provide a portion of the electricity for UNT’s Eagle Point campus, located west of Interstate 35E.

The stadium, now under construction, is scheduled to open for next fall’s football season.

In a meeting Thursday at UNT’s Gateway Center, residents supported the idea but voiced some concerns about how much noise the turbines would produce, whether state funds would be recouped from the project and whether the turbine placement would impact property values.

Tom La Point, a nearby resident and a professor at the university, said he’s read about wind turbines affecting property values and would like the feasibility study to include an evaluation of the economic impact on the neighborhood.

“This is something we need to know as we move ahead,” La Point said. “Do we need to sell now? It’s a scary thing.”

While some studies claim that wind turbines have no adverse effect on property values, most of the studies were conducted in rural areas rather than in neighborhoods, said Dr. Jim Gaines, an economist with the Real Estate Center at Texas A&M University.

Factors include the visual effect caused by the structures and the distance from one’s home to the turbines, he said.

“A lot of people don’t like them because of the visual image, and for a lot of people it doesn’t matter,” Gaines said.

Noise from wind turbines could significantly impact property values, since even the slightest noise placed high enough can carry for a distance, he said.

As alternative energy sources become more widespread, the placement of urban wind turbines will be studied more, Gaines said. But for now, long-term effects are unknown.

“It’s just too new to tell if there’s an impact,” he said.

Todd Spinks, director of the UNT Office of Sustainability, said he recently visited a community-scaled wind turbine and said it sounded similar to a refrigerator making ice.

“They are designed to urban areas and it’s extremely quiet, which is one of the appealing factors of them,” Spinks said.

A recent study on home sales prices showed wind energy facilities and the distance of the homes to the facilities had no widespread impacts, according to an analysis of almost 7,500 home sales conducted by the U.S. Department of Energy’s Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory.

The UNT study is being helmed by Dallas-based HKS Inc., which estimates the three wind turbines could produce 5 percent to 8 percent of the total energy needed for the Eagle Point campus.

In a heated discussion at last week’s meeting, residents and university officials clashed over possible routes for stadium traffic from Interstate 35E to the Eagle Point campus, which is tucked in a residential neighborhood.

Steve Stone, a neighborhood property owner, said he’s worried by the lack of roadway surrounding the stadium, along with heavy traffic and overall safety.

He criticized what he saw as a lack of interaction between university officials and residents at committee meetings designed nearly a year ago to open communication.

“Essentially, they patronized the neighborhood by inviting us to meetings that didn’t go anywhere,” Stone said.

Other neighborhood updates:

* University officials announced the beginning of a feasibility study on placing a putting green for golf practice on the northwest side of the Eagle Point campus, off Bonnie Brae Street. The green wouldn’t require high nets or lighting.

* The construction of a concrete spillway surrounding the duck pond located on Eagle Point campus is complete. Officials said the spillway has held up against recent downpours in Denton.

I love the thought of that, especially in Texas, but did T. Boone Pickens put y'all up to this? All jokes aside, it's a great idea.

I would love to do that at FAU's stadium, With the Ocena breeze it could be substantial savings.

However the stadium is going to be right next to the Boca Raton Airport so it might cause some FAA headaches to have giant spinning blades in the same area that planes are tyring to land.

(09-13-2010 11:49 AM)OwlFamily Wrote:  I would love to do that at FAU's stadium, With the Ocena breeze it could be substantial savings.

However the stadium is going to be right next to the Boca Raton Airport so it might cause some FAA headaches to have giant spinning blades in the same area that planes are tyring to land.

I thought about that if/when USA builds one as well. But can you imagine these turbines at a USA, FIU, or FAU during hurricane season? I wonder if we could 'capture' and keep the energy that is created should a hurricane strike.

I think it's a great idea....except for the noise. I'm not familiar with the noise level from the turbines (and how loud it can get), but it could be miserable.

I misread the thread title. I thought it read turbine power, but I now see that it clearly says turbin power. I am not sure how well turbin power works, but I'm definitely interested in this new method of energy creation.

(09-13-2010 11:54 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  I thought about that if/when USA builds one as well. But can you imagine these turbines at a USA, FIU, or FAU during hurricane season? I wonder if we could 'capture' and keep the energy that is created should a hurricane strike.

That's the big problem with wind turbines. You can't build a big "battery" and save it for when you need it. Maybe some day, but not today. And if you build power lines to transport it to somewhere else (which is expensive) then you lose the power exponentially the further you get away from the turbines (ohm's law).

This is why wind power is not ready for prime time as an energy source.

If UNT adds the expensive devices then it is unlikely that there will be any real financial savings. It would be a "statement" only. And that statement is: 'we don't know what ohm's law is'.

(09-13-2010 07:37 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(09-13-2010 11:54 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  I thought about that if/when USA builds one as well. But can you imagine these turbines at a USA, FIU, or FAU during hurricane season? I wonder if we could 'capture' and keep the energy that is created should a hurricane strike.

That's the big problem with wind turbines. You can't build a big "battery" and save it for when you need it. Maybe some day, but not today. And if you build power lines to transport it to somewhere else (which is expensive) then you lose the power exponentially the further you get away from the turbines (ohm's law).

This is why wind power is not ready for prime time as an energy source.

If UNT adds the expensive devices then it is unlikely that there will be any real financial savings. It would be a "statement" only. And that statement is: 'we don't know what ohm's law is'.

You are entitled to your opinion, however a lotta folks disagree with ya. Have a nice day.:odie:

(09-13-2010 07:41 PM)MG61 Wrote:  You are entitled to your opinion, however a lotta folks disagree with ya. Have a nice day.:odie:

Hey if they really think they got it worked out, then more power to them. Pun intended.

(09-13-2010 07:44 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(09-13-2010 07:41 PM)MG61 Wrote:  You are entitled to your opinion, however a lotta folks disagree with ya. Have a nice day.:odie:

Hey if they really think they got it worked out, then more power to them. Pun intended.

I'm with you on this one, 2K. Just isn't as practical as many think. But if something new is developed that makes the investment worthwhile, I'll be behind it.

It's UNT's money. I'm not gonna tell 'em how to spend it.

(09-13-2010 10:06 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  I'm with you on this one, 2K. Just isn't as practical as many think. But if something new is developed that makes the investment worthwhile, I'll be behind it.

It's UNT's money. I'm not gonna tell 'em how to spend it.

Agreed. Of course if they did buy the turbines and they do lose money, I doubt it would be reported. It will either go largely forgotten or there will be a report that mentions how much the turbines save without mentioning how much they cost.

Here is a nice post from the Mean Green thread on the subject, I suspect that this is dead on:

SUMG Wrote:The turbines....cost approximately $2 million.

They will supply 33% of the stadium electricity.....meaning the other 67% will come from the local power company.

The head of the BOR told me....he guessed the stadium would use about $100,000 worth of electricity a year.

So.....33% of $100,000 is $33,333.

You're spending $2 million of taxpayer money to save $33,333 a year. In ONLY 60 years....the turbines will pay for themselves. That's provided that they go 60 years needing no maintenance at all.

Keep in mind, I am not trying to rain on anybody's parade, but I think sometimes well intentioned people want things to be true that aren't.

(09-13-2010 10:35 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(09-13-2010 10:06 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  I'm with you on this one, 2K. Just isn't as practical as many think. But if something new is developed that makes the investment worthwhile, I'll be behind it.

It's UNT's money. I'm not gonna tell 'em how to spend it.

Agreed. Of course if they did buy the turbines and they do lose money, I doubt it would be reported. It will either go largely forgotten or there will be a report that mentions how much the turbines save without mentioning how much they cost.

Here is a nice post from the Mean Green thread on the subject, I suspect that this is dead on:

SUMG Wrote:The turbines....cost approximately $2 million.

They will supply 33% of the stadium electricity.....meaning the other 67% will come from the local power company.

The head of the BOR told me....he guessed the stadium would use about $100,000 worth of electricity a year.

So.....33% of $100,000 is $33,333.

You're spending $2 million of taxpayer money to save $33,333 a year. In ONLY 60 years....the turbines will pay for themselves. That's provided that they go 60 years needing no maintenance at all.

Keep in mind, I am not trying to rain on anybody's parade, but I think sometimes well intentioned people want things to be true that aren't.

Why would you think you are raining on anyone's parade ? You're just an internet poster, right ?:odie:

(09-13-2010 10:49 PM)MG61 Wrote:  Why would you think you are raining on anyone's parade ? You're just an internet poster, right ?:odie:

Just? Is there anything more important in the world?

(09-13-2010 07:37 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  That's the big problem with wind turbines. You can't build a big "battery" and save it for when you need it. Maybe some day, but not today. And if you build power lines to transport it to somewhere else (which is expensive) then you lose the power exponentially the further you get away from the turbines (ohm's law).

This is why wind power is not ready for prime time as an energy source.

If UNT adds the expensive devices then it is unlikely that there will be any real financial savings. It would be a "statement" only. And that statement is: 'we don't know what ohm's law is'.

I'm trying to learn more about this....but it's my understanding, that if you're 'on the grid', you can sell it back to the electric company.
Is this not true?

(09-14-2010 08:05 AM)Fanof49ASU Wrote:  

(09-13-2010 07:37 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  That's the big problem with wind turbines. You can't build a big "battery" and save it for when you need it. Maybe some day, but not today. And if you build power lines to transport it to somewhere else (which is expensive) then you lose the power exponentially the further you get away from the turbines (ohm's law).

This is why wind power is not ready for prime time as an energy source.

If UNT adds the expensive devices then it is unlikely that there will be any real financial savings. It would be a "statement" only. And that statement is: 'we don't know what ohm's law is'.

I'm trying to learn more about this....but it's my understanding, that if you're 'on the grid', you can sell it back to the electric company.
Is this not true?

Wind turbine power is not exactly a new idea. It's been around a while.
http://www.infinitepower.org/projects.htm

(09-14-2010 09:15 AM)MG61 Wrote:  Wind turbine power is not exactly a new idea. It's been around a while.
http://www.infinitepower.org/projects.htm

That doesn't answer my question.
Can't this be sold back to the utilities company if you're on the grid?

(09-14-2010 10:41 AM)Fanof49ASU Wrote:  

(09-14-2010 09:15 AM)MG61 Wrote:  Wind turbine power is not exactly a new idea. It's been around a while.
http://www.infinitepower.org/projects.htm

That doesn't answer my question.
Can't this be sold back to the utilities company if you're on the grid?

Understand they will be connected to and part of the UNT power grid. but all power produced would be used at UNT Eagle Point facilities.