(08-21-2010 05:59 PM)brista21 Wrote:  Not for nothing but Baylor and Vandy are solid in the majority of the other sports they field so its not as though they do nothing. Remember every conference needs a team to finish last, few conferences will have that team change fairly frequently like the Big East will/has.

Solid in non-football sports has nothing to do with BCS inclusion. AD's around the country have noticed that Baylor has been sucking off of the teet of the Big XII ever since the Southwest Conference collapsed, taking the money without giving anything back in terms of football. I've heard that virtually verbatim said between two AD's with my own ears.

USFFan

(08-21-2010 04:02 PM)animus Wrote:  5 14 team conferences could be a good thing... UL, UC, Memphis, BYU would fit well in the Big XII, Syracuse and Rutgers would fit well in the Big 10... Pitt and WVU would fit well in the ACC... And i'd feel bad for UConn and USF but you'd be left behind in this scenerio. Nothing personal here. Not sure who the Pac and SEC picks up here. I don't care anymore. If people can't see the bigger picture that expanding with teams that don't add anything and want to leave. The door is wide open. Leave. Pitt will be fine regardless.

the SEC would take teams from the Big 12 and the ACC

that would probably allow a spot, if we're going with 14 team leagues, for UConn and maybe USF to go to the ACC

the Pac 10 could possibly take a couple of teams from either the MWC or the Big 12

(08-21-2010 04:27 PM)BullsFanatic Wrote:  Why do people keep thinking that when commissioners say a conference isn't interested in expanding, that must mean that they secretly are interested?

Maybe because several of their Big East football coaches bring up that they WANT the conf to expand in many interviews....

Also, since several of Big East's own members want to "jump ship" to the Big Ten if offered, some Big East fans think its better to invite teams now (i.e. 2 years in advance...so they can start recruiting with the BCS label), vs waiting till the Big East does lose a member, which might give the Big East much less time to react, and much less time to the team(s) being added to become a quality BCS program.

Finally, all Big East fans know that the Big East Conf is the lowest paid (financially) BCS conf out there...and much of that is due to their lack of inventory games (i.e. only 8 teams playing 7 conf games), which doesn't offer much in regards to programming (hence the smallest BCS TV contract).

But then again...those are only 3 guesses as to why.

(08-21-2010 06:51 PM)usffan Wrote:  

(08-21-2010 05:59 PM)brista21 Wrote:  Not for nothing but Baylor and Vandy are solid in the majority of the other sports they field so its not as though they do nothing. Remember every conference needs a team to finish last, few conferences will have that team change fairly frequently like the Big East will/has.

Solid in non-football sports has nothing to do with BCS inclusion. AD's around the country have noticed that Baylor has been sucking off of the teet of the Big XII ever since the Southwest Conference collapsed, taking the money without giving anything back in terms of football. I've heard that virtually verbatim said between two AD's with my own ears.

USFFan

I believe that one sucks off of a teat.

(08-21-2010 05:53 PM)usffan Wrote:  Sorry, I'm just laughing at you guys biting at the bait of a Baylor fan. Baylor is going to do and say whatever they can in order to remain relevant on the national landscape. The only reason they were in the Big XII was because of Ann Richards and the politics in Texas, and when those same politicians tried to use their pull for the Pac-10 and get Baylor included over Colorado, the Pac-10 stopped that in their tracks. Baylor = Vanderbilt - a private institution drawing big boy money but not willing to do what it takes to get the job done. There's a reason why Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and Missouri were meeting with representatives of the Big East without bringing Baylor representatives along.

Look, I'm not sitting here talking like USF is guaranteed a spot at the highest level of competition when all the dust settles, but I feel that USF's future outlook is brighter than Baylor's. And frankly, I'm shocked that so many Big East fans are sufficiently gullible to fall for this crap...

USFFan

Well, if I look at my first post to Sammy it was 2 questions regarding hearing something concrete or just merely reading the tea leaves.....And Sammy came back and was honest about where they were coming from.

(08-21-2010 05:41 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I'd prefer to stay with UL, WVU, and Pitt. Having rivals within an easy drive is priceless. Not many easy roadtrips in the B12.

That's a good point. But, I just wonder what options we have left if the BE blows up, and whether or not Pitt/WVU will be amongst the cherrypicked.

(08-21-2010 05:48 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  

(08-21-2010 03:25 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  If things don't work out with Big East and the raiding starts, then yes I'd be an interested in the Big 12 as a UL fan. It wouldn't require a traveling partner either, just a place to set up shop in the BCS and compete in football/basketball/baseball with other elite teams.

Couple of things Sammy:
1. Are you getting some insider info here on this or just trying to read the tea leaves, with the latest being the tv network talks this week?

2. Your second option appears to show the Big 12 falling apart, are you hearing something on this?

1- Mainly reading tea leaves but really I have heard that expansion will probably happen in the next 2 years. Deal with CU & NU legal payouts then expand. Helps prove damages & such.

I do think BYU will be invited as the move to indy is laying the groundwork for a move in some respects. I think UofL is a very real possibility with proximity, facilities, and recent BCS and final 4 success. Jurich is doing an outstanding job there. Academics may hurt them though from UT & ATM perspective.

2- I only think UT and others bolt en masse if the money isnt there and it should be there till 2020 as Mizzou is really the only potential B10 target and IMO only if they go 16.

I was just pointing out a more beneficial worst case scenario with #2.

BullsFanatic- Not interested right now doesn't mean never interested.

CubanBull- Only way B12 falls apart is if we lose Mizzou on top of the other 6. Otherwise we reload. Number to keep is 5 for autobid, so 2 new teams on top of the almost gurranteed 3 of BU-KSU-ISU would do it.

I have read the bylaws on this.

Sammy
when I said that the Big12 would implode if there is a move towards superconferences- I meant the current standing. If that happens Texas,AM and Oklahoma wont be there so the conference would have to survive by lining itself with Big East and MWC schools. Thats why I think every current Big east team would find a home in either B10,ACC,SEC or this new conference. Mizzou could be part of this new conference, but you know full well that Mizzou will try to be one of those four schools added by Big10 and they have a good shot at being one of them.

End of the day, Louisville will be where it is in its best interest to be. Louisville really wants the Big East to become stronger and be a player. However, with that said, we are looking for what is best for Louisville in the long haul. The same is true for every one of the other 7 BE football schools. So if you think the BE is safe right now, you are foolish.

(08-22-2010 09:54 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  End of the day, Louisville will be where it is in its best interest to be. Louisville really wants the Big East to become stronger and be a player. However, with that said, we are looking for what is best for Louisville in the long haul. The same is true for every one of the other 7 BE football schools. So if you think the BE is safe right now, you are foolish.

No one is saying that the Big East is safe. What most have said is that adding ECU,Memphis,Temple or UCF wil NOT make the Big East any safer from raiding.
What i have said is that the 8 current Big East members will have options IF superconferences do form and the Big East dissapears.

Hi guys, new to the board, but have been reading for months.

Louisville loves the Big East because it culturally fits with who we are (large urban university). However, UofL is not just satisfied with being a member of the Big East because of the AQ status. We want to make money, and we have the kind of resources to be as big time as any school out there. We see ourselves as the equal of Texas, Notre Dame, Kentucky, UCLA, Ohio State etc....in terms of branding and ability to compete at the elite level in all sports. Louisville may outgrow the Big East within a few short years if the league can't grow its brand accordingly. Right now Louisville feels it can help the Big East develop that brand, but if the old guard schools thwart our good intentions simply because they have been "established" longer won't fly with Jurich and Dr. Ramsey. We won't be held hostage by other schools and their agendas.

Now don't get me wrong. I love the Big East and dearly hope Louisville remains in this league because we are a basketball first school, and this is the best basketball league by far. However, Louisville isn't spending all its money on upgraded football facilities and new basketball arenas along with Title IX compliance just to remain in the weakest BCS league that might fall apart. We have invested heavily to assure that we are a very attractive school to anyone's conference. The only thing holding us back at the moment is academics, and that too is being addressed. Our motto is Dare To Be Great; not Hope To Be Great.

As for expansion, I want Memphis in the league for two reasons:
1. They are our third most hated rival behind Kentucky and Cincinnati.
2. They give us another ally against the old guard BE schools to strengthen our voice in the league.

I also want UCF because Louisville recruits Florida and USF needs a natural rival in the league.

I think ECU should be in the league because they can compete in football right away. ECU can win the BE and that's a fact.

I think Temple should be reinstated because they are addressing the old problems of the past and increase the BE footprint in Philly.

I would love the 12-20 format. Have a conference championship game in football, and only allow the top 16 teams into MSG for the basketball tourney. It would be brutal fun.

But money drives the bus, and football is the money maker. I just don't like the hide and watch strategy.

(08-22-2010 10:37 AM)LaBradfordsTWill Wrote:  Hi guys, new to the board, but have been reading for months.

Louisville loves the Big East because it culturally fits with who we are (large urban university). However, UofL is not just satisfied with being a member of the Big East because of the AQ status. We want to make money, and we have the kind of resources to be as big time as any school out there. We see ourselves as the equal of Texas, Notre Dame, Kentucky, UCLA, Ohio State etc....in terms of branding and ability to compete at the elite level in all sports. Louisville may outgrow the Big East within a few short years if the league can't grow its brand accordingly. Right now Louisville feels it can help the Big East develop that brand, but if the old guard schools thwart our good intentions simply because they have been "established" longer won't fly with Jurich and Dr. Ramsey. We won't be held hostage by other schools and their agendas.

Now don't get me wrong. I love the Big East and dearly hope Louisville remains in this league because we are a basketball first school, and this is the best basketball league by far. However, Louisville isn't spending all its money on upgraded football facilities and new basketball arenas along with Title IX compliance just to remain in the weakest BCS league that might fall apart. We have invested heavily to assure that we are a very attractive school to anyone's conference. The only thing holding us back at the moment is academics, and that too is being addressed. Our motto is Dare To Be Great; not Hope To Be Great.

As for expansion, I want Memphis in the league for two reasons:
1. They are our third most hated rival behind Kentucky and Cincinnati.
2. They give us another ally against the old guard BE schools to strengthen our voice in the league.

I also want UCF because Louisville recruits Florida and USF needs a natural rival in the league.

I think ECU should be in the league because they can compete in football right away. ECU can win the BE and that's a fact.

I think Temple should be reinstated because they are addressing the old problems of the past and increase the BE footprint in Philly.

I would love the 12-20 format. Have a conference championship game in football, and only allow the top 16 teams into MSG for the basketball tourney. It would be brutal fun.

But money drives the bus, and football is the money maker. I just don't like the hide and watch strategy.

Love the enthusiasm and welcome aboard! However, I don't think going straight to 12 or even to 10 is a smart move. I used to think until very recently going to 10 was wise but I've been made to see the light otherwise. I'd like to add 1 of the above to go to 10, whoever has the most positive financial impact for all involved, based on stuff that's come out probably ECU. We allow them to grow into the place and then see what else has happened out there. The Big 12 collapse will eventually happen and the north schools will be looking for partners. Perhaps Memphis football has begun turning it around by then and could be put in there to unify the league geographically.

The only thing left to do is to renegotiate the Big East charter to make it so painful to leave the league, that no one will opt to do it. Put a 36 month waiting period and 10 million dollar exit fee in for good measure and this should stabilize the league. Force the schools to reaffirm their commitment to the league and end all the speculation. In exchange for these tougher penalties, the Big East front office must launch a Big East Network and improve the bowl payouts. Also, it wouldn't hurt to build an alliance with the Mountain West, C-USA, and WAC conferences to build leverage with the NCAA to put pressure on the BCS for better equality. Or maybe build an alliance with the ACC from inside the BCS as a countermeasure to the Pac12/Big 10 alliance.

(08-22-2010 12:36 PM)LaBradfordsTWill Wrote:  The only thing left to do is to renegotiate the Big East charter to make it so painful to leave the league, that no one will opt to do it. Put a 36 month waiting period and 10 million dollar exit fee in for good measure and this should stabilize the league. Force the schools to reaffirm their commitment to the league and end all the speculation. In exchange for these tougher penalties, the Big East front office must launch a Big East Network and improve the bowl payouts. Also, it wouldn't hurt to build an alliance with the Mountain West, C-USA, and WAC conferences to build leverage with the NCAA to put pressure on the BCS for better equality. Or maybe build an alliance with the ACC from inside the BCS as a countermeasure to the Pac12/Big 10 alliance.

We want to stay in the BE and we should add TCU and go 9/17 immediately! There is a football heavyweight available with top ten rankings and a BCS win and the name is TCU! However, if BE is going to implode then sure we'd love to be in the Big 12. Great football and hoops!

(08-22-2010 02:34 PM)Iamready Wrote:  

(08-22-2010 12:36 PM)LaBradfordsTWill Wrote:  The only thing left to do is to renegotiate the Big East charter to make it so painful to leave the league, that no one will opt to do it. Put a 36 month waiting period and 10 million dollar exit fee in for good measure and this should stabilize the league. Force the schools to reaffirm their commitment to the league and end all the speculation. In exchange for these tougher penalties, the Big East front office must launch a Big East Network and improve the bowl payouts. Also, it wouldn't hurt to build an alliance with the Mountain West, C-USA, and WAC conferences to build leverage with the NCAA to put pressure on the BCS for better equality. Or maybe build an alliance with the ACC from inside the BCS as a countermeasure to the Pac12/Big 10 alliance.

We want to stay in the BE and we should add TCU and go 9/17 immediately! There is a football heavyweight available with top ten rankings and a BCS win and the name is TCU! However, if BE is going to implode then sure we'd love to be in the Big 12. Great football and hoops!

So long as we lay down the law to Texas that we aren't their beeyatch.

Outside of Kansas, Oklahoma State, and Texas none of the other schools appeal to me in basketball. Compare that to UConn, Cinci, Pitt, Marquette, Nova, Cuse, and Georgetown. We would take turns with Kansas owning that league whereas now, there are always four or five teams in contention for the BEast title.

(08-22-2010 10:01 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(08-22-2010 09:54 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  End of the day, Louisville will be where it is in its best interest to be. Louisville really wants the Big East to become stronger and be a player. However, with that said, we are looking for what is best for Louisville in the long haul. The same is true for every one of the other 7 BE football schools. So if you think the BE is safe right now, you are foolish.

No one is saying that the Big East is safe. What most have said is that adding ECU,Memphis,Temple or UCF wil NOT make the Big East any safer from raiding.
What i have said is that the 8 current Big East members will have options IF superconferences do form and the Big East dissapears.

Cuban, other than getting the call from the BE last time there was a BCS opening, what is the difference between USF and UCF? If USF has BCS options, shouldn't UCF as well? I suspect that there will be competition from nonbcs schools for spots in the so called super conferences if they ever form. Just because a school is currently in a BCS conference doesn't mean they will be in one if a big 16 team conference shuffle occurs.

(08-22-2010 03:05 PM)Brick City Pirate Wrote:  

(08-22-2010 10:01 AM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(08-22-2010 09:54 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  End of the day, Louisville will be where it is in its best interest to be. Louisville really wants the Big East to become stronger and be a player. However, with that said, we are looking for what is best for Louisville in the long haul. The same is true for every one of the other 7 BE football schools. So if you think the BE is safe right now, you are foolish.

No one is saying that the Big East is safe. What most have said is that adding ECU,Memphis,Temple or UCF wil NOT make the Big East any safer from raiding.
What i have said is that the 8 current Big East members will have options IF superconferences do form and the Big East dissapears.

Cuban, other than getting the call from the BE last time there was a BCS opening, what is the difference between USF and UCF? If USF has BCS options, shouldn't UCF as well? I suspect that there will be competition from nonbcs schools for spots in the so called super conferences if they ever form. Just because a school is currently in a BCS conference doesn't mean they will be in one if a big 16 team conference shuffle occurs.

There would be. But the reality is that BCS conferences rather expand from other BCS conferences if possible. I have no doubts that UCF would also be under consideration, but they will be competing with USF for that same slot. I really doubt that any conference would add BOTH USF and UCF. In that case USF's current BCS status will help. I like our chances if it comes down to us or them.

The thing is though UCF is showing that it is willing to spend the money to get where they want to be. USF had better not get complacent or UCF may leapfrog them someday. I think the Big East has taken notice of UCF's commitment to upgrading, who is to say another league isn't noticing too? If UCF's academics were higher rated, the ACC might be real interested in them. The potential is definitely there.

(08-22-2010 03:20 PM)LaBradfordsTWill Wrote:  The thing is though UCF is showing that it is willing to spend the money to get where they want to be. USF had better not get complacent or UCF may leapfrog them someday. I think the Big East has taken notice of UCF's commitment to upgrading, who is to say another league isn't noticing too? If UCF's academics were higher rated, the ACC might be real interested in them. The potential is definitely there.

LOL. USF is not just standing by and being complacent. There is current construction on a new baseball stadium, new softball stadium, basketball practicing facilities, football practicing fields, soccer stadium and dining facility (for students and athletes but geared to athletes weight management).
USF is improving academically and is already atop 50 research institution. So USF is just not standing by complacent on being in Big East

(08-22-2010 03:24 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(08-22-2010 03:20 PM)LaBradfordsTWill Wrote:  The thing is though UCF is showing that it is willing to spend the money to get where they want to be. USF had better not get complacent or UCF may leapfrog them someday. I think the Big East has taken notice of UCF's commitment to upgrading, who is to say another league isn't noticing too? If UCF's academics were higher rated, the ACC might be real interested in them. The potential is definitely there.

LOL. USF is not just standing by and being complacent. There is current construction on a new baseball stadium, new softball stadium, basketball practicing facilities, football practicing fields, soccer stadium and dining facility (for students and athletes but geared to athletes weight management).
USF is improving academically and is already atop 50 research institution. So USF is just not standing by complacent on being in Big East

That's great and what's driving all that? Looking over their shoulder seeing other schools breathing down their necks. Louisville has spent hundreds of millions of dollars in upgrades and we still feel insecure in all of this. Even with a 22,000 seat arena, and a newly expanded football stadium plus a new natatorium and new baseball stadium (about to be expanded again), we are one step away from being out in the cold. It sucks how athletics is now operating like an arms race, but if you can't keep up, you're out.

(08-22-2010 03:31 PM)LaBradfordsTWill Wrote:  

(08-22-2010 03:24 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  

(08-22-2010 03:20 PM)LaBradfordsTWill Wrote:  The thing is though UCF is showing that it is willing to spend the money to get where they want to be. USF had better not get complacent or UCF may leapfrog them someday. I think the Big East has taken notice of UCF's commitment to upgrading, who is to say another league isn't noticing too? If UCF's academics were higher rated, the ACC might be real interested in them. The potential is definitely there.

LOL. USF is not just standing by and being complacent. There is current construction on a new baseball stadium, new softball stadium, basketball practicing facilities, football practicing fields, soccer stadium and dining facility (for students and athletes but geared to athletes weight management).
USF is improving academically and is already atop 50 research institution. So USF is just not standing by complacent on being in Big East

That's great and what's driving all that? Looking over their shoulder seeing other schools breathing down their necks. Louisville has spent hundreds of millions of dollars in upgrades and we still feel insecure in all of this. Even with a 22,000 seat arena, and a newly expanded football stadium plus a new natatorium and new baseball stadium (about to be expanded again), we are one step away from being out in the cold. It sucks how athletics is now operating like an arms race, but if you can't keep up, you're out.

Thats correct. This are over $30 million in investments. Most where badly needed and im sure it wont be the end. But there is a lot of construction going on at USF specially in athletics.