Haven't any of you been paying attention to Dr. Owl 69???? The vat immediately makes imports 20% more expensive and our exports 20% cheaper. I've been paying attention Owl! :) Time to get the rest of these guy's on board.

(04-07-2010 05:19 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Haven't any of you been paying attention to Dr. Owl 69???? The vat immediately makes imports 20% more expensive and our exports 20% cheaper. I've been paying attention Owl! :) Time to get the rest of these guy's on board.

Hey kid, how about we just give ALL of our money to the government, let them dole out a small allowance to us, and then have them take care of everything else? We could have government food staples to draw out rations, etc. It would be great!

Mach, I'm surprised you left your mother's breast. You apparently weren't ready for adulthood.

(04-07-2010 05:19 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Haven't any of you been paying attention to Dr. Owl 69???? The vat immediately makes imports 20% more expensive and our exports 20% cheaper. I've been paying attention Owl! :) Time to get the rest of these guy's on board.

Only works if the tax burden elsewhere is offset. Obama's plan is not to offset any tax burden and to add this on top of it.

Many countries in Europe have VAT's, it is a monumental failure.

Why am I constantly being told to pay for something I didn't buy?

(04-07-2010 05:19 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Haven't any of you been paying attention to Dr. Owl 69???? The vat immediately makes imports 20% more expensive and our exports 20% cheaper. I've been paying attention Owl! :) Time to get the rest of these guy's on board.

Ricky 69/70/75, looks like your gonna have to do more 'splainin for Lucy.

Do this
1. A 15% VAT (across-the-board, everything at one rate, to avoid the crap that Europe goes through).
2. Eliminate the cap on social security, creating in effect a 15% tax on salaries and wages,
3. Drop the personal income tax, getting rid of 1040s and April 15,
4. A 15% flat tax on all business earnings
5. Provide a Boortz-Linder prefund of 30% of the poverty level income to every American

That would produce enough revenues to have balanced the budget before the Shrub/Obama orgy of 2009. It does so in a way that would increase the growth rate, so you don't need the rest of the "stimulus. " And the prefund eliminates the need for a bunch of welfare programs.

Now implement a French-style health care plan ($800 billion). You pay for it by eliminating Medicaid ($250 billion), offsetting $150 billion of Medicare (and phasing out future Medicare for those younger than 50), saving $250 billion from the welfare programs you were able to cut because of the prefund, and cutting $300 billion of wasteful spending that has been identified by Cato.

While you're at it, implement Swedisn no-fault malpractice. And while we're copying Sweden, let's privatize part of social security. A 2.5% contribution by you and your employer maens that you take home 90% of your paycheck and have 5% going into a super-401k. And the employer gets to provide medical and a 401k for a 10% burden rate. Suppose you privatized a bunch of federal activities (TVA, air traffic control, western water/power authorities, USPS) and added some (turn the interstate system into 100% toll roads, buy the railroad tracks and lease them back to the railroads, major solar/wind farms in the appropriate areas), invest in them and run them as profitable enterprises, and put the profits toward growing social security.

With the prefund and French health care, nobody is more than a minimum-wage job away from living above the poverty line. Nobody.

That leaves you with $150 billion left over, so you set up a school voucher program, $3,000/student times 50 million students. The program starts out with public schools only. It will then be a race to see which comes first--the obviously greater success that will lead to public sentiment to expand it to private schools, or a court victory by some inner-city African-American family who want their kids to go to a private school.

You've reduced the size of government, significantly enhanced the welfare safety net, and cut the top marginal tax rates. Biggest problem will be infrastructure to keep up with the runaway growth.

(04-07-2010 07:18 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Do this
1. A 15% VAT (across-the-board, everything at one rate, to avoid the crap that Europe goes through).
2. Eliminate the cap on social security, creating in effect a 15% tax on salaries and wages,
3. Drop the personal income tax, getting rid of 1040s and April 15,
4. A 15% flat tax on all business earnings
5. Provide a Boortz-Linder prefund of 30% of the poverty level income to every American

That would produce enough revenues to have balanced the budget before the Shrub/Obama orgy of 2009. It does so in a way that would increase the growth rate, so you don't need the rest of the "stimulus. " And the prefund eliminates the need for a bunch of welfare programs.

Now implement a French-style health care plan ($800 billion). You pay for it by eliminating Medicaid ($250 billion), offsetting $150 billion of Medicare (and phasing out future Medicare for those younger than 50), saving $250 billion from the welfare programs you were able to cut because of the prefund, and cutting $300 billion of wasteful spending that has been identified by Cato.

While you're at it, implement Swedisn no-fault malpractice. And while we're copying Sweden, let's privatize part of social security. A 2.5% contribution by you and your employer maens that you take home 90% of your paycheck and have 5% going into a super-401k. And the employer gets to provide medical and a 401k for a 10% burden rate. Suppose you privatized a bunch of federal activities (TVA, air traffic control, western water/power authorities, USPS) and added some (turn the interstate system into 100% toll roads, buy the railroad tracks and lease them back to the railroads, major solar/wind farms in the appropriate areas), invest in them and run them as profitable enterprises, and put the profits toward growing social security.

With the prefund and French health care, nobody is more than a minimum-wage job away from living above the poverty line. Nobody.

That leaves you with $150 billion left over, so you set up a school voucher program, $3,000/student times 50 million students. The program starts out with public schools only. It will then be a race to see which comes first--the obviously greater success that will lead to public sentiment to expand it to private schools, or a court victory by some inner-city African-American family who want their kids to go to a private school.

You've reduced the size of government, significantly enhanced the welfare safety net, and cut the top marginal tax rates. Biggest problem will be infrastructure to keep up with the runaway growth.

WOO HOO!!!!

F*** VAT...STOP SPENDING.

(04-07-2010 09:07 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  F*** VAT...STOP SPENDING.

This...

The VAT is to damn complicated and it still is theft. I really prefer the FT...at least I would have some slight avenues to evade the theft. Of course If I had my way I would prefer to simply "pay for services that I use" on a contractual or voluntary basis...without having to be forced to pay at the point of a gun.

(04-07-2010 05:26 PM)Rebel Wrote:  We could have government food staples to draw out rations, etc.

There wouldn't be anything to dole out as there would be no benefit to getting out of bed. Who would grow the food or make anything, unless the government was holding a gun to our heads.

(04-07-2010 06:32 PM)Paul M Wrote:  

(04-07-2010 05:19 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Haven't any of you been paying attention to Dr. Owl 69???? The vat immediately makes imports 20% more expensive and our exports 20% cheaper. I've been paying attention Owl! :) Time to get the rest of these guy's on board.

Ricky 69/70/75, looks like your gonna have to do more 'splainin for Lucy.

By the time Obama adds the VAT statute on top of the current Income Tax, title 26 of the United States Code will take up 5 feet of bookshelf space.

Why can't we reform the tax code? This is when you can do it. You'll never get a major progressive tax code change with a Republican President. You could get one with Obama. Tie it in with cap and trade somehow. This is what the right should be working on. Instead of fighting the guy ever step and turn. Try to push a bi-partisan agenda that is actually favorable to the country. Something both sides could take credit for.

Why would anyone want to take credit for a massive fraud and theft like cap and trade?

offset income taxes with a tax on carbon based fuels

FairTax PERIOD. All others are nothing but a damn shell game that are used by politicians to pit groups against one another. Oh, can't happen with the VAT? BS. It already happens in Europe with companies who get the best political whores, I.e. lobbyists. ....one thing I agree with that moonbat Grayson on. Certain products are exempt from the VAT due to lobbying efforts.

(04-08-2010 09:18 AM)Rebel Wrote:  FairTax PERIOD. All others are nothing but a damn shell game that are used by politicians to pit groups against one another. Oh, can't happen with the VAT? BS. It already happens in Europe with companies who get the best political whores, I.e. lobbyists. ....one thing I agree with that moonbat Grayson on. Certain products are exempt from the VAT due to lobbying efforts.

I agree...Repeal the 16th and install the FT. My problem with the VAT is it creates added overhead for businesses. It is somewhat complicated and many businesses would have to hire additional employees to handle it. The FT is straight forward and transparent. You pay your tribute to the state when you purchase finished goods or services.

(04-08-2010 08:38 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  offset income taxes with a tax on carbon based fuels

Dems have been at the core of screwing us for -35- years on energy and your carbon based tax is in the same line of BS. Have not built a nuclear plant since the 70's and can't drill for oil in our own country, but you want to tax the oil/carbons so we have to pay even more. Please..... we are now in a spot where marginal demand (China) will be exceeding marginal supply....HIGHER PRICES..... THANKS...

(04-07-2010 05:19 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Haven't any of you been paying attention to Dr. Owl 69???? The vat immediately makes imports 20% more expensive and our exports 20% cheaper. I've been paying attention Owl! :) Time to get the rest of these guy's on board.