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Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
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SkullyMaroo Offline
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Post: #1
Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
2009-2010 Attendance

Lowest since expansion:
Middle Tennessee
South Alabama
Troy
UNO
WKU

Highest since expansion:
FAU
FIU

About average:
UALR
Arkansas State
UNT
Denver
ULM
ULL

Lost Attendance from previous season:
-35.8% UNO
-20.3% USA
-13.2% WKU
-10.7% UALR
-10.2% MTSU
-10.1% Denver
-9.3% UNT
-7.4% ULL
-4.9% ASU
-1.3% Troy

Gained Attendance from previous season:
+15.9% FAU
+43.9% ULM
+55.9% FIU

Average since expansion(not counting this year):
5310 WKU
4162 Middle Tennessee
3876 South Alabama
3596 UALR
3320 Arkansas State
3271 Louisiana-Lafayette
2032 North Texas
1982 Denver
1982 Troy
1360 Louisiana-Monroe
838 Florida Atlantic
678 FIU
651 New Orleans

Detraction from average since expansion (not counting this year in average):
+56.7% FIU
+40.1% FAU
+0.5% UNT
+0.1% ASU

-2.6% Denver
-3.9% ULM
-6.6% UALR
-8.8% Troy
-13.4% MTSU
-15.6% ULL
-16.0% WKU
-26.8% UNO
-30.2% USA
03-11-2010 10:11 AM
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troyw Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
(03-11-2010 10:11 AM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  2009-2010 Attendance

Lowest since expansion:
Middle Tennessee
South Alabama
Troy
UNO
WKU

Highest since expansion:
FAU
FIU

About average:
UALR
Arkansas State
UNT
Denver
ULM
ULL

Lost Attendance from previous season:
-35.8% UNO
-20.3% USA
-13.2% WKU
-10.7% UALR
-10.2% MTSU
-10.1% Denver
-9.3% UNT
-7.4% ULL
-4.9% ASU
-1.3% Troy

Gained Attendance from previous season:
+15.9% FAU
+43.9% ULM
+55.9% FIU

Average since expansion(not counting this year):
5310 WKU
4162 Middle Tennessee
3876 South Alabama
3596 UALR
3320 Arkansas State
3271 Louisiana-Lafayette
2032 North Texas
1982 Denver
1982 Troy
1360 Louisiana-Monroe
838 Florida Atlantic
678 FIU
651 New Orleans

Detraction from average since expansion (not counting this year in average):
+56.7% FIU
+40.1% FAU
+0.5% UNT
+0.1% ASU

-2.6% Denver
-3.9% ULM
-6.6% UALR
-8.8% Troy
-13.4% MTSU
-15.6% ULL
-16.0% WKU
-26.8% UNO
-30.2% USA

Nice work on the analysis...not as bad for Troy as I would have thought considering our "struggling economy".
03-11-2010 08:02 PM
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WKUFan518 Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
Our first two games as part of the preseason NIT we drew just a little over 2k and was not part of season ticket package...So that really hurt our attend. average this season....
03-11-2010 08:26 PM
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SkullyMaroo Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
(03-11-2010 08:26 PM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  Our first two games as part of the preseason NIT we drew just a little over 2k and was not part of season ticket package...So that really hurt our attend. average this season....

Saints playoffs, Mardi Gras, WKU game on night of BCS national championship featuring Alabama, terrible weather etc. killed USA attendance.

Hopefully next year will be better schedule and weather wise for USA.
03-11-2010 11:00 PM
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ULMSOT Offline
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RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
why are people OBSESSED over attendance. I understand it is really important. But talk about it all the time?
03-12-2010 07:39 AM
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OldJaguar Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
We talk about it because it indicates the health of a program.
Why have athletics if no one cares.

The anaylisis is great and accurate, but one must understand how the count is carried out to understand the system. There are counting options.

FIU , for example obviously uses total sold tickets( including season tickets) + free and comp tickets + sutdent tickets. At the USA FIU game the official attendance was mid 600. The actual BIS ( butts in seats) count was under 150.

I believe USA and many other schools use BIS. We had a Thanksgiving Day afternoon game with an official attendance of about 756. I think that was abouit right and We have more season tickets holders than that if we wanted to count sold tickets.
03-12-2010 08:16 AM
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SkullyMaroo Offline
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RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
(03-12-2010 07:39 AM)ULMSOT Wrote:  why are people OBSESSED over attendance. I understand it is really important. But talk about it all the time?

'Attendance' was clearly in the thread title. If you didn't want to read about it, then don't click this thread.

I love stats, and think of things to compare ALL the time. If I find something interesting then often times I will post it here in case someone else enjoys it.
03-12-2010 09:03 AM
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MeanGreen61 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
(03-12-2010 07:39 AM)ULMSOT Wrote:  why are people OBSESSED over attendance. I understand it is really important. But talk about it all the time?

It's kinda understandable why someone from ULM isn't really interested in discussions about attendance.05-stirthepot
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2010 12:32 PM by MeanGreen61.)
03-12-2010 12:30 PM
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ULMSOT Offline
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RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
i am fine reading about this. I just wondered why it was talked about everyweek. No big deal.

That coming from a team that won the belt and clearly had the best season...and lost 9.3% from last year...while we had another terrible season and gained 43.9%. Good call!01-wingedeagle
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2010 02:11 AM by ULMSOT.)
03-13-2010 02:11 AM
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Hilltopper2K Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
(03-11-2010 08:26 PM)WKUFan518 Wrote:  Our first two games as part of the preseason NIT we drew just a little over 2k and was not part of season ticket package...So that really hurt our attend. average this season....

Yep, add to that we had pretty significant snow for a couple of games and I think the problems with GM has hurt us as the assembly plant is one of BG's largest employers and they have had people idle for much of this past year.
03-13-2010 11:46 AM
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Side Show Joe Offline
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RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
Thanks for getting this information on attendance. I think overall it is bad news. The question is how can we improve our attendance?

1. Most Belt teams need to improve the product on the court (UNT fans find it hard to get excited about any Belt team coming to town, other then WKU).
2. Waters needs to get the Belt a better TV deal for basketball and football too (we could help by demanding better local news and media coverage).
3. Belt schools must commit more funds to their athletic departments (With so many of our schools running on shoe string budgets, why should we be taken seriously?)
4. Stop expanding (we will always be seen as the bottom of the barrel conference, if we keep adding any school who wants in).

These are actually problems I generally have with the Sun Belt. I'm not trying to anger anyone, but we have to recognize the problems before we can fix them.
03-18-2010 12:12 PM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #12
RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
Fans not caring about seeing other Sun Belt teams isn't a problem unless they also don't care about seeing their own team.

TV is as good as it is going to get until ESPN sees that there is sufficient interest in the form of ratings to carry more games or other viable networks think ESPN is under-paying and they come offer more money to get us closer to the true value.

We are at 12 come July 1 and see no reason to consider another school unless we get down to around 9 or there is a truly compelling option that can help us with television or is bringing great basketball or football.
03-18-2010 12:27 PM
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SkullyMaroo Offline
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RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
I think next year you will see most teams increase attendance.

I expect USA to be real good next year. ASU will be tough. UNT doesn't lose alot? FAU has no seniors this year. WKU is WKU. FIU has a good recruiting class. Denver should contend for the West title. Louisiana and MTSU lose a couple of key players, but they shouldn't be bad. Troy will be down, but they are getting a new arena. ULM and UALR... well they only have up to go!

I think next year could be the year the Sun Belt starts to break out of mediocrity. I think we could be poised for multiple NCAA bids. This breakout from mediocrity won't happen overnight, but we can certainly build on it, and we didn't do that after the 2007-2008 season (when we got two bids). Hopefully this can all change and we can contend for multiple bids every year.
03-18-2010 12:40 PM
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MeanGreen61 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
(03-18-2010 12:12 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Thanks for getting this information on attendance. I think overall it is bad news. The question is how can we improve our attendance?

1. Most Belt teams need to improve the product on the court (UNT fans find it hard to get excited about any Belt team coming to town, other then WKU).
2. Waters needs to get the Belt a better TV deal for basketball and football too (we could help by demanding better local news and media coverage).
3. Belt schools must commit more funds to their athletic departments (With so many of our schools running on shoe string budgets, why should we be taken seriously?)
4. Stop expanding (we will always be seen as the bottom of the barrel conference, if we keep adding any school who wants in).

These are actually problems I generally have with the Sun Belt. I'm not trying to anger anyone, but we have to recognize the problems before we can fix them.

Not exactly when it comes to Belt teams coming to town.
UNT's last 5 games at the Pit were against Belt teams with pretty decent attendance.
ULL-4,377
UALR- 4,672
Denver- 3,872
USA- 3,685
ASU- 3,117
Average for these five games was 3,945. Granted it isn't what we want, but................
Continuing, increased excitement about the Mean Green is what we need, the rest will fall into place.
(This post was last modified: 03-18-2010 12:44 PM by MeanGreen61.)
03-18-2010 12:44 PM
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SkullyMaroo Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
(03-18-2010 12:44 PM)MeanGreen61 Wrote:  
(03-18-2010 12:12 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Thanks for getting this information on attendance. I think overall it is bad news. The question is how can we improve our attendance?

1. Most Belt teams need to improve the product on the court (UNT fans find it hard to get excited about any Belt team coming to town, other then WKU).
2. Waters needs to get the Belt a better TV deal for basketball and football too (we could help by demanding better local news and media coverage).
3. Belt schools must commit more funds to their athletic departments (With so many of our schools running on shoe string budgets, why should we be taken seriously?)
4. Stop expanding (we will always be seen as the bottom of the barrel conference, if we keep adding any school who wants in).

These are actually problems I generally have with the Sun Belt. I'm not trying to anger anyone, but we have to recognize the problems before we can fix them.

Not exactly when it comes to Belt teams coming to town.
UNT's last 5 games at the Pit were against Belt teams with pretty decent attendance.
ULL-4,377
UALR- 4,672
Denver- 3,872
USA- 3,685
ASU- 3,117
Average for these five games was 3,945. Granted it isn't what we want, but................
Continuing, increased excitement about the Mean Green is what we need, the rest will fall into place.

Well it's both really. It's not just black and white one or the other. I'll use an example to make my point.

You have a .500 record and a SunBelt school comes to town. Attendance might be 2-4K.

You have a .500 record and an Alabama goes to USA, or Texas to UNT, or Kentucky or Louixville to WKU, or an LSU to one of the Louisiana schools and you have a capacity crowd. The opponent does make a difference and whether it's a 'name' team or not.

It's when you are winning that you can draw people to your conference games against the Sun Belt opponents. Your example even shows the UNT attendance grew as the season progressed.

But something not mentioned, but I think most here realize is that the Sun Belt basketball attendance is hurt earlier in the season by football overlapping with it. Nothing we can do about that though.
03-18-2010 01:26 PM
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RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
(03-18-2010 12:12 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  4. Stop expanding (we will always be seen as the bottom of the barrel conference, if we keep adding any school who wants in).

ArkStFn covered most of the whining, but about expansion. Since the start of FB, we haven't expanded unless we had to. USU, NMSU, etc. were all necessary to the start of football. FIU/FAU/Troy, too. WKU and USA are already members. We have initiatives in place to help push Denver towards what they want (a more regional conference) and UNO's surprise loss isn't good, but isn't horrible to the conference's operations either.

You can't expect a handout. Teams need to perform better to get better TV exposure, attendance, schedules, respect, etc.
03-18-2010 03:03 PM
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RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
Let's take a look at the Sun Belt and the expansions.

Formed in 1976 with:
Georgia State, Charlotte, Jacksonville, USF, UNO and USA
1979
Added VCU and UAB
1980
UNO forced out due to facility (Chamber of Horrors)
1982
ODU and WKU join
1991
Add UALR to replace departing members, more departures take place and the Sun Belt is left with USA, Jacksonville, WKU and soon to join UALR. League for all intents and purposes is dead.

The American South (Arkansas State, Central Florida, Lamar, Louisiana Lafayette, Louisiana Tech, New Orleans, and Texas-Pan American) agrees to merge with the Sun Belt with some encouragement from the NCAA. The ASC was a pretty good league and had just gotten its automatic bid and was coming off a season that saw 4 of 7 in post-season (UNO and Tech to NCAA, ASU and ULL to NIT) but the NCAA said merge and you get the units of both leagues.

At the time, I considered it a major tactical mistake. ASU was completing I-A transition, Tech had just finished, UCF was planning to start transition looking to be I-A in 93 or 94 (not going to the garage to find that stuff) and the league football members had a football scheduling alliance with Northern Illinois with an agreement to join football only if we found the final needed member. The ASC seemed to be track to being a I-A league.

Central Florida got cross-ways because their TV deal with one of the Florida sports channels conflicted with the deal we inherited from the Sun Belt, with lawsuits and everything. UCF asked to withdraw. They had put their I-A move on indefinite hold because of money problems so there was no move to keep them and they left after one year taking the league from 11 to 10 members.

UTPA was hard to reach and played before tiny crowds practically on the US-Mexican border. They had one decent run through the league and got busted by the NCAA. They hire new people and seem to be in order then discover a new round of NCAA violations. UTPA apparently felt the coach was involved and wanted to fire him but couldn't afford the buyout and on top of all that they were under big heat from the UT Regents for getting in trouble so soon after the last time. In their list of penalty suggestions they included (either because Regent pressure or the desire to be rid of the coach depends on whose story you believe) the death penalty as a suggested penalty. The NCAA declined to give them death but the members had all they could stand. The members moved to expel UTPA, they counted noses and saw where the vote would go and voluntarily withdrew leaving the league with 9 members. Then in bang-bang fashion, Jacksonville withdraws to join the TAAC (now Atlantic Sun) citing the number of regional schools and Lamar elects to return the Southland, the conference they left to form the American South.

The Sun Belt was suddenly at 7.

The members feared losing conference status and moved quickly to add members. Commissioner Thompson suggested FIU (had just won the TAAC) and Denver. The argument being that there appeared to be no combination of six football schools in the region willing to join that ASU, ULL, and Tech would agree to. So the shift would be to leave those three to continue to fend for themselves in football and they would focus on urban basketball schools. The league paid FIU's withdrawal penalty or at least waived entry fee to get the Panthers in immediately. The Denver logic in part was tied to a sales pitch that a key airline executive and Fox Sports executive were on the board and could help get a TV deal and an airline deal to save on airfare. Neither happened.

Then Thompson leaves.

The executive committee (at the time headed by UNO's chancellor and I think ASU's president, ULL's president were also on it) search for a new commissioner and were not pleased with the candidate pool. The football schools are getting fed up with their status and UNO supports them in the belief that if they don't hire a football guy, the league will fall apart in a few more years. They start using their contacts and are told call this guy at Bama, Wright Waters. He accepts once convinced they are really serious about adding football.

At this point the Big West is down to: ASU, UNT, USU, Idaho, NMSU, and Boise State. Football talks are going nowhere until a few things happen. 1. ASU re-joined under the condition that they can leave without penalty or notice so ASU gives notice of departure killing the league. 2 The meetings basically go no place because everyone is playing the "I won't join if X joins" game. 3. A new plan is adopted. Each member is told to secretly submit a letter of intent stating join or don't join within so many days without conditions. Boise is a doll through the whole process promising they will keep the bowl afloat for the league as long as needed as the most cooperative of the Big West schools. Once the letters are in the Sun Belt will go through each school and either offer full membership, football membership, or decline to extend an offer, but the letter is their acceptance. ULM announces they've sent their letter and state intent to join. As you would expect the lid blows off at Tech who announces they WON'T join. UCF who is also involved freaks and announces they won't join if Tech doesn't join. Tech is reminded that if we hit six, conference bylaws require they be expelled if they fail to join for football (of course reaching six at this point without ULM is basically impossible). UNO and Boise help calm the process down but then the WAC is suddenly needing to replace TCU so everything goes back on hold. Boise and Tech get the invites. The league extends full membership offers to MTSU, NMSU, and UNT and football only invites to ULM, USU, and Idaho. USU declines, Idaho has to wait to accept because the president isn't in town.

Then USU comes back wanting football membership a couple years later and Troy is invited for football.

Next the NCAA changes the rules for I-A leagues requiring 8 football members that play all sports in the league. All-sports invites are then extended to USU, Idaho, and Troy which will get the league to 8 with ULM the 9th member but not all sports. The WAC raids out NMSU and USU and then later Idaho. ULM is extended an all-sports invite.

The conference is still short two members.

FIU is planning to go I-A but not until 2007 or 08. They are contacted to see if they will accelerate. FAU had been in contact with the league about coming in possibly as soon as 2006 but was looking at 07. They were also asked if they would accelerate. FAMU had announced their intention but I think the consensus was it was a house of cards. WKU was also asked if they would be willing to declare for I-A and declined.

FIU accelerated and came in for football while FAU accelerated for football and was admitted all sports. Both played a league schedule in 05 but did not gain official I-A status until 2006.

Since then WKU gained I-A status and by rule, became members in football. The same course that USA is following.

While this is very lengthy, I think it demonstrates that the Sun Belt just doesn't grab any school that comes along unless we are at a critical juncture where a move has to be made ASAP.
03-18-2010 05:45 PM
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BLEEDITRED Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
Wow arkstfan, that was incredibly informative. Thanks for posting that.
03-18-2010 07:08 PM
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RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
Yes, quite an interesting read arkstfan.

Once UNO and Denver leave that only leaves Little Rock as the only non-football playing school; is the writing on the wall for them? They're a solid member but football is king.

Also, not sure how things will shake out for the Sun Belt during the next wave of expansion, but if the 10 football playing members stay together, there could be a rationale for adding two members and creating a championship game somewhere down the road.

I know we're not there yet, however, if we can get by the MAC and C-USA that championship game could draw some nice attention [maybe even pull one of those schools this way; well not until our basketball get a lot better. Maybe Tech once the WAC falls apart 05-stirthepot].
03-19-2010 11:13 AM
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RE: Analysis of 2009-2010 Attendance
And folks talk about what a far-flung conference the SBC is now. Once Denver leaves, the SBC will be about as compact as its ever been.



(03-18-2010 05:45 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Let's take a look at the Sun Belt and the expansions.

Formed in 1976 with:
Georgia State, Charlotte, Jacksonville, USF, UNO and USA
1979
Added VCU and UAB
1980
UNO forced out due to facility (Chamber of Horrors)
1982
ODU and WKU join
1991
Add UALR to replace departing members, more departures take place and the Sun Belt is left with USA, Jacksonville, WKU and soon to join UALR. League for all intents and purposes is dead.

The American South (Arkansas State, Central Florida, Lamar, Louisiana Lafayette, Louisiana Tech, New Orleans, and Texas-Pan American) agrees to merge with the Sun Belt with some encouragement from the NCAA. The ASC was a pretty good league and had just gotten its automatic bid and was coming off a season that saw 4 of 7 in post-season (UNO and Tech to NCAA, ASU and ULL to NIT) but the NCAA said merge and you get the units of both leagues.

At the time, I considered it a major tactical mistake. ASU was completing I-A transition, Tech had just finished, UCF was planning to start transition looking to be I-A in 93 or 94 (not going to the garage to find that stuff) and the league football members had a football scheduling alliance with Northern Illinois with an agreement to join football only if we found the final needed member. The ASC seemed to be track to being a I-A league.

Central Florida got cross-ways because their TV deal with one of the Florida sports channels conflicted with the deal we inherited from the Sun Belt, with lawsuits and everything. UCF asked to withdraw. They had put their I-A move on indefinite hold because of money problems so there was no move to keep them and they left after one year taking the league from 11 to 10 members.

UTPA was hard to reach and played before tiny crowds practically on the US-Mexican border. They had one decent run through the league and got busted by the NCAA. They hire new people and seem to be in order then discover a new round of NCAA violations. UTPA apparently felt the coach was involved and wanted to fire him but couldn't afford the buyout and on top of all that they were under big heat from the UT Regents for getting in trouble so soon after the last time. In their list of penalty suggestions they included (either because Regent pressure or the desire to be rid of the coach depends on whose story you believe) the death penalty as a suggested penalty. The NCAA declined to give them death but the members had all they could stand. The members moved to expel UTPA, they counted noses and saw where the vote would go and voluntarily withdrew leaving the league with 9 members. Then in bang-bang fashion, Jacksonville withdraws to join the TAAC (now Atlantic Sun) citing the number of regional schools and Lamar elects to return the Southland, the conference they left to form the American South.

The Sun Belt was suddenly at 7.

The members feared losing conference status and moved quickly to add members. Commissioner Thompson suggested FIU (had just won the TAAC) and Denver. The argument being that there appeared to be no combination of six football schools in the region willing to join that ASU, ULL, and Tech would agree to. So the shift would be to leave those three to continue to fend for themselves in football and they would focus on urban basketball schools. The league paid FIU's withdrawal penalty or at least waived entry fee to get the Panthers in immediately. The Denver logic in part was tied to a sales pitch that a key airline executive and Fox Sports executive were on the board and could help get a TV deal and an airline deal to save on airfare. Neither happened.

Then Thompson leaves.

The executive committee (at the time headed by UNO's chancellor and I think ASU's president, ULL's president were also on it) search for a new commissioner and were not pleased with the candidate pool. The football schools are getting fed up with their status and UNO supports them in the belief that if they don't hire a football guy, the league will fall apart in a few more years. They start using their contacts and are told call this guy at Bama, Wright Waters. He accepts once convinced they are really serious about adding football.

At this point the Big West is down to: ASU, UNT, USU, Idaho, NMSU, and Boise State. Football talks are going nowhere until a few things happen. 1. ASU re-joined under the condition that they can leave without penalty or notice so ASU gives notice of departure killing the league. 2 The meetings basically go no place because everyone is playing the "I won't join if X joins" game. 3. A new plan is adopted. Each member is told to secretly submit a letter of intent stating join or don't join within so many days without conditions. Boise is a doll through the whole process promising they will keep the bowl afloat for the league as long as needed as the most cooperative of the Big West schools. Once the letters are in the Sun Belt will go through each school and either offer full membership, football membership, or decline to extend an offer, but the letter is their acceptance. ULM announces they've sent their letter and state intent to join. As you would expect the lid blows off at Tech who announces they WON'T join. UCF who is also involved freaks and announces they won't join if Tech doesn't join. Tech is reminded that if we hit six, conference bylaws require they be expelled if they fail to join for football (of course reaching six at this point without ULM is basically impossible). UNO and Boise help calm the process down but then the WAC is suddenly needing to replace TCU so everything goes back on hold. Boise and Tech get the invites. The league extends full membership offers to MTSU, NMSU, and UNT and football only invites to ULM, USU, and Idaho. USU declines, Idaho has to wait to accept because the president isn't in town.

Then USU comes back wanting football membership a couple years later and Troy is invited for football.

Next the NCAA changes the rules for I-A leagues requiring 8 football members that play all sports in the league. All-sports invites are then extended to USU, Idaho, and Troy which will get the league to 8 with ULM the 9th member but not all sports. The WAC raids out NMSU and USU and then later Idaho. ULM is extended an all-sports invite.

The conference is still short two members.

FIU is planning to go I-A but not until 2007 or 08. They are contacted to see if they will accelerate. FAU had been in contact with the league about coming in possibly as soon as 2006 but was looking at 07. They were also asked if they would accelerate. FAMU had announced their intention but I think the consensus was it was a house of cards. WKU was also asked if they would be willing to declare for I-A and declined.

FIU accelerated and came in for football while FAU accelerated for football and was admitted all sports. Both played a league schedule in 05 but did not gain official I-A status until 2006.

Since then WKU gained I-A status and by rule, became members in football. The same course that USA is following.

While this is very lengthy, I think it demonstrates that the Sun Belt just doesn't grab any school that comes along unless we are at a critical juncture where a move has to be made ASAP.
03-19-2010 12:27 PM
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