This team is lousy. I attempted to watch the Toledo/CMU game on TV while taking down Christmas decorations yesterday. Considering how many scholarships Cross has had at his disposal and how many players of HIS players have already left the program, I'll take Stan Joplin back in a second.

There is not one single player that is truly an all-conference player. In fact, I've attended D-II games over the past year with Findlay and Ashland of the GLIAC and both have better talent right now than Toledo. If you don't believe me, UT lost to Central State in a preseason game and they are an average D-II school.

The time has come and realize a serious mistake has been made in hiring Cross. He is not the answer and in fact, he has made the program far worse than even the Larry Gibson days.

These current clowns would struggle against The College of Wooster.

Bringing back Joplin is not an option and we need to get over it. Whether we like it or not, Cross is our coach for the next three seasons. His learning curve could be quite steep in that time so maybe we should all just chill. We haven't won a championship in baseball in a while and no one is calling for Gee to be fired.

(01-10-2010 06:45 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  Bringing back Joplin is not an option and we need to get over it. Whether we like it or not, Cross is our coach for the next three seasons. His learning curve could be quite steep in that time so maybe we should all just chill. We haven't won a championship in baseball in a while and no one is calling for Gee to be fired.

It's Mee not Gee, which proves the point that few care about baseball and that's why he's here. As far as Cross goes, he will be here through next season at which time O'Brien will evaluate his future.

(01-10-2010 06:39 PM)Nick in Cleveland Wrote:  This team is lousy. I attempted to watch the Toledo/CMU game on TV while taking down Christmas decorations yesterday. Considering how many scholarships Cross has had at his disposal and how many players of HIS players have already left the program, I'll take Stan Joplin back in a second.

There is not one single player that is truly an all-conference player. In fact, I've attended D-II games over the past year with Findlay and Ashland of the GLIAC and both have better talent right now than Toledo. If you don't believe me, UT lost to Central State in a preseason game and they are an average D-II school.

The time has come and realize a serious mistake has been made in hiring Cross. He is not the answer and in fact, he has made the program far worse than even the Larry Gibson days.

These current clowns would struggle against The College of Wooster.

Stick to your website.

(01-10-2010 06:39 PM)Nick in Cleveland Wrote:  This team is lousy. I attempted to watch the Toledo/CMU game on TV while taking down Christmas decorations yesterday. Considering how many scholarships Cross has had at his disposal and how many players of HIS players have already left the program, I'll take Stan Joplin back in a second.

There is not one single player that is truly an all-conference player. In fact, I've attended D-II games over the past year with Findlay and Ashland of the GLIAC and both have better talent right now than Toledo. If you don't believe me, UT lost to Central State in a preseason game and they are an average D-II school.

The time has come and realize a serious mistake has been made in hiring Cross. He is not the answer and in fact, he has made the program far worse than even the Larry Gibson days.

These current clowns would struggle against The College of Wooster.

Yea, and #7 Syracuse lost to D2 Lemoine this year, and a couple years ago 0$U lost to Findlay while #8 MSU lost to Grand Valley St. But guess what - THEY WERE ALL EXHIBITION GAMES.

So UTPotts & MidnightBlueGold, do you guys like Cross?

If so - why?

What do you see that makes you believe this program is heading in the right direction?

When I look at the new women's b-ball coach and the football coach, I see positive movement and two solid hires to date. For men's b-ball, we've hit rock-bottom.

How can you guys be advocates for this clown?

Nick In Cleveland, I see your point about Cross. You must also recognize that Joplin was at the helm during a gambling problem that involved his players. Joplin had to go, or the NCAA would have brought upon us a pain that is far greater than what is happening now. Cross might very well be a mistake, but please do not keep up with the Joplin talk for the sake of everyone's sanity during this basketball season. Cross will determine his own fate with the success of the program being his responsibility. If you would like to see Cross go faster, you had better start a fund raiser to finance his buy out.

Nick,

First, you're a good ambassador of Rocket Athletics and your opinion is always welcome here--even if some of us don't agree. Furthermore, if I remember correctly you were adamant critic of the Amstutz hire form the beginning. So maybe you have a good feel for quality. If you think watching the games are painful from Chagrin Falls (or wherever) try witnessing it in person.

However, I think (and this is nothing but pure speculation), that CC's directive from MOB was/is to first and foremost clean up the program and purge any bad taste from gambling fiasco. Not unlike NBA Commissioner David Stern, MOB might be more interested in good citizens who make good grades and wise choices over MAC Championships at this point. And who could blame him, the Athletic Department will be in damage control for the foreseeable future. So in my opinion, CC has "free pass" from MOB for the entire contract (if not longer) if the kids are doing all the right things.

what i wonder is why o`brien has such a pass. stan had no knowledge of the supposed gambling thing. he was not fired because of it, but it was a factor in his firing because he was the man in charge and had a certain responsibility. so why does o`brien the man who was essentially in charge of both the football and basketball programs (both w gambling infiltration) not held to any similar level of responsibility? he gets an extension and raise.

it's very clear cross will get a pass for another year. o'brien has no desire to fire him or admit he made a colossal error in judgement w the hiring. only if cross has completely destroyed any and all interest in men's bball for 3 consecutive yrs will there be consideration of a change. if cross can generate some momentum in yr 3, he will be back for yr 4. even if it's just he, the great jake barnett, and 4 well conditioned honor students who walk and chew gum at the same time. in reality there is some hope if players make skill and conditioning gains. malcolm griffin should be a solid player by yr 3. he may still be looking for a position to play but if he trains hard and polishes up his ballhandling he could be a tough matchup as an upper classmen. jordan dressler has a decent feel and good size, but he'll need to get quicker, stronger and smarter. josh freelove has a lot of talent if he can find a role and gain a better understanding of defensive principals. this anderson recruit is having a moster sr yr and is said to be a big time athlete. that would help. it's possible. the problem is not seeing much evidence of improvement and retention over the past yr and a half.

(01-10-2010 10:21 PM)pono Wrote:  even if it's just he, the great jake barnett, and 4 well conditioned honor students who walk and chew gum at the same time.

I still have a year of eligibility and promise to play hardnose D on the two trips down the floor I think I could manage. Wait, you said honor students. Never mind.

Nick, I'd like to see you try to completely build a D1-A basketball program from the ground up. We need to face the fact that Stan, while a good guy, bankrupted this team and Coach Cross had to recruit his first class VERY hastily. The freshmen and redshirt freshmen that we have now are his first real class and I'd like the chance to see what they can do with a year under their belts.

I think it's about time that we show Gene Cross the same level of class that he's been showing us. We may not like the results yet but I'll guarantee this. He had no real idea how rough this rebuilding job was going to be when he accepted our offer.

if cross can generate some momentum in yr 3, he will be back for yr 4. even if it's just he, the great jake barnett, and 4 well conditioned honor students who walk and chew gum at the same time

Classic :ncaabbs:

(01-11-2010 12:28 AM)Photodan Wrote:  Nick, I'd like to see you try to completely build a D1-A basketball program from the ground up. We need to face the fact that Stan, while a good guy, bankrupted this team and Coach Cross had to recruit his first class VERY hastily. The freshmen and redshirt freshmen that we have now are his first real class and I'd like the chance to see what they can do with a year under their belts.

I think it's about time that we show Gene Cross the same level of class that he's been showing us. We may not like the results yet but I'll guarantee this. He had no real idea how rough this rebuilding job was going to be when he accepted our offer.

I still don't understand how Joplin destroyed or "bankrupted" this program. Was he recruiting strictly gang members? Maybe we had a few academic bumps but I don't buy the strategy that Cross came into town with nothing on the roster. Though Cross is not fully responsible for the lack of success in less than two years, it's not like I see much positives in his ability to recruit and coach.

(01-11-2010 07:10 AM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  I still don't understand how Joplin destroyed or "bankrupted" this program. Was he recruiting strictly gang members?

it has nothing to do with gang members. How about the fact that we have NO senior class and few upperclassmen? We should still have a core of experienced scorers for Cross to work with but we don't. Take stock of what Joplin left us with then ask yourself if this is all on Coach Cross.

Why DOES O'brien get a free pass?

I think Pono's comment is relevant. He's the boss. He runs the show. Is he teflon AD or what?

Comments? Both major sports are losing and all problems have occured under his tenure yet he gets a title increase and contract extension. Simply addressing the problems should not get MOB off the hook.

It seems that MOB is virtually never criticised yet everything occurs under his supposed watchful eyes.

Go ROCKETS!

it has nothing to do with gang members. How about the fact that we have NO senior class and few upperclassmen? We should still have a core of experienced scorers for Cross to work with but we don't. Take stock of what Joplin left us with then ask yourself if this is all on Coach Cross.
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I believe Joplin left Amos, Tubbs, and Johnson among others. All three,IMO, were better than anyone on the current rooster. For some reason Cross could not get them to play the way he wanted, and sacrificed the season. I believe a good coach must utilize the talent he has, not force them into a game they are not capable of playing.

Also, I think UT always met NCAA academic requirements under Joplin, and we never lost scholarships. I thought Stan's teams had a pretty good graduation rate. Am I wrong?

(01-11-2010 07:10 AM)Rocket_Fanatic Wrote:  

(01-11-2010 12:28 AM)Photodan Wrote:  Nick, I'd like to see you try to completely build a D1-A basketball program from the ground up. We need to face the fact that Stan, while a good guy, bankrupted this team and Coach Cross had to recruit his first class VERY hastily. The freshmen and redshirt freshmen that we have now are his first real class and I'd like the chance to see what they can do with a year under their belts.

I think it's about time that we show Gene Cross the same level of class that he's been showing us. We may not like the results yet but I'll guarantee this. He had no real idea how rough this rebuilding job was going to be when he accepted our offer.

I still don't understand how Joplin destroyed or "bankrupted" this program. Was he recruiting strictly gang members? Maybe we had a few academic bumps but I don't buy the strategy that Cross came into town with nothing on the roster. Though Cross is not fully responsible for the lack of success in less than two years, it's not like I see much positives in his ability to recruit and coach.

Bankrupt may be a strong term, IMO. He did leave four seniors and a couple big men better suited to role players. Once the seniors were gone the cupboard was largely bare-nevertheless, as someone mentioned, two of those seniors were very good and there was enough talent that we should have won 12-15 games last year, especially being in the weak MAC West. I believe Cross will turn a corner because I have to beleive it or I'll go nuts. It bothers me that I care this much-its just basketball. OMG, what did I just say?

If Cross were fired who would take a team with no rides left and marginal talent all made of freshmen and sophmores. face it we are stuck with Cross at least 1 more year and with a possible APR hit finding a coach could be a problem, APR's are harder to recruit over with a 13 ride limit to begin with.

(01-11-2010 08:23 AM)rockytop Wrote:  I believe Joplin left Amos, Tubbs, and Johnson among others. All three,IMO, were better than anyone on the current rooster. For some reason Cross could not get them to play the way he wanted, and sacrificed the season. I believe a good coach must utilize the talent he has, not force them into a game they are not capable of playing.

Also, I think UT always met NCAA academic requirements under Joplin, and we never lost scholarships. I thought Stan's teams had a pretty good graduation rate. Am I wrong?

Talent-wise, Amos, Kent, and Johnson were far & away better than anything we've seen this season. How is it that talent was incapable of playing Cross' style of ball? If not talent, it's got to be lack of brains or stubborness. I don't think it's lack of brains. Kent was a beast one-on-one and could score off the dribble from anywhere. Couldn't set up and shoot a jumper to save his soul though. Amos played hard all the time...and much of it out of control. Last year I saw him lose as many balls in the paint as he shot...and he rarely passed when he got in the paint. Johnson was hurt all year.

I wrote an opinion piece after the Alabama game for Rocket Digest that hasn't been posted yet (maybe that's a good thing lol) but the first thing in the piece applies here as well: it was one game. Toledo played a very good 2nd half against a pretty decent Alabama team. Couldn't buy a basket or make a free throw, but otherwise a solid game. Those two things were evident again vs. CMU, coupled with lousy defense. We're all sick of losing and they look terrible doing it (I had to listen to this one) but they really ARE still very young. Every visiting coach that's come here has commented that the program looks like it's going in the right direction. Every one of them. And they all say it's youth. Now I'm not going to buy into that as gospel...often just coach speak for the opposition...but it's a recurring theme so I'm believing there's something to it.

It's not easy, but I'm choosing to remain patient. For now.

(01-11-2010 10:28 AM)Karl Wrote:  Every visiting coach that's come here has commented that the program looks like it's going in the right direction.

I agree 100%. The program is going in the right direction for every single visiting coach that comes here to play!