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RDA Trojan Offline
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Post: #21
RE: FB: House panel passes college football playoff bill
(12-10-2009 01:37 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  Fellas, The worst bowl matchups garner more viewers than most mid-season TV games. You'll still want to go to a bowl game, there will still be a city wanting you to come visit, bowls will still exist.

That's because most of the time, there are only a few games played every day during bowl season. Here's how it breaks down:

Dec 19th - two games. One at 4:30 EST and one at 8:00 EST. The end of the first might interfere for a very short while with the start of the next one.

Dec 20th, 22nd, 23rd, 24th - one game on each day, each in primetime.

Dec 26th, three games. 1:00, 4:30, 8:00. Again, 3.5 hours apart, practically no interference.

Dec 27th - 28th, one game each day. 8:00 and 5:00.

Dec 29th - Two games. 4:30, 8:00 (Seeing a pattern here yet?)

Dec 30th - same as above, 2 games, same times.

Dec 31st - 5 games. ESPN games are Noon, 3:30, 7:30. CBS Game is 2:00, NFL network game is at 6:00.

January 1st - 5 games. ESPN game at 11 AM. ABC games at 1:00 and 4:30 (Capital One and Rose). CBS game at 1:00 (Gator). Fox game at 8:30 (Sugar)

January 2nd - 5 games. ESPN2 at Noon (Int'l). ESPN games at 2:00 (PJ.com bowl) 5:30 (Liberty) and 9:00 (Alamo). Fox game at 2:00 (Cotton)

January 4th - Fiesta on Fox - Primetime.

January 5th - Orange on Fox - Primetime.

January 6th - GMAC at 7:00 - ESPN

January 7th - BCS at 8:00 on ABC.

So there is a little overlap on the games on NYE, NYD, and January 2nd. Other than that, there is no reason someone couldn't watch every last bowl game in its entirety. That is why ratings are much higher.
12-10-2009 03:57 PM
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RaiderATO Offline
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Post: #22
RE: FB: House panel passes college football playoff bill
I understand that there is little competition. Which is one of the reasons that bowl games will not be disbanded by a playoff. The bowl games make money for someone, or they wouldn't be played.
12-10-2009 04:56 PM
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Post: #23
RE: FB: House panel passes college football playoff bill
(12-10-2009 03:45 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  BTW, not a thesis.

It's how it happened.

Your 'thesis' is that TCU will 'spend more money' than Iowa and that is why they are a better (or just as good a) choice as Iowa when you said "They grabbed TCU as the best available that would sell tickets".

Now unless the Fiesta is a rousing success for Tempe and the community, your 'thesis' will be proved wrong.

Again, I don't want to lose the point of this discussion here. You argue that TCU and Boise are the best match-up that the BCS/Fiesta/Tempe could have wanted out of their lot. I argue that the picks were made in some type of quid pro quo manner which allows AQ's to maintain the status quo and diminish the accomplishments of the non-AQ's. You seem to underpin your arguement with the point that TCU was a better choice for those concerned than Iowa and I disagree with this. The results will be reported after the game is played.

There's a lot on the line now for the non-AQ's. Trust me, I'm hoping for a big turn-out from the two teams and everyone walking away impressed. But if the 'fix is in' and the results aren't as positive as the BCS would like...watch out for the 'I told you so's' coming from the power players and a big step backward for the non-AQ's.
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2009 10:26 AM by FIUFan.)
12-11-2009 09:53 AM
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chrisattsu Offline
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Post: #24
RE: FB: House panel passes college football playoff bill
(12-10-2009 03:42 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  There are only 17,500 seats to fill by a Fiesta team. Could Iowa sell more than 17,500 if available? Yep, but they aren't.

Believe me. Fiesta has no interest in scratching the Orange's back. In the bowl community of the four BCS games, Fiesta and Sugar are the only two that get along very well unless its to try to smack the Rose around, a dislike, distaste and distrust of the Rose is the only thing all three share in common.

The Orange despises the Fiesta because the Fiesta hijacked the Big 12 from them and successfully manuvered the ACC as the permanent team there, outflanking the Orange's attempt to send ACC to Fiesta to preserve their traditional alliance.

What do you mean by this statement? The Flagship of the Hawkeye State can fill a stadium. TCU's alumni have money, so many will travel, but their fanbase is smaller than Iowa. Iowa purchased 47,000 tickets the 2003 Orange Bowl against USC.

"Iowa has the distinction of having the most fans of any non-Florida team in Orange Bowl history," said Larry Gautier, Orange Bowl official. -- http://www.qctimes.com/sports/football/c...3bb77.html

Considering that U of Phx Stadium holds 64,000+, I have a feeling the Hawkeyes would have sold just fine. Especially considering that Iowa has a large Alumni Chapter in Arizona. http://www.iowalum.com/arizona/ (and TCU does not)
12-11-2009 11:18 AM
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stebo Offline
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Post: #25
RE: FB: House panel passes college football playoff bill
(12-10-2009 03:45 PM)paco Wrote:  
(12-10-2009 03:12 PM)stebo Wrote:  
(12-10-2009 01:39 PM)NCowl Wrote:  
(12-10-2009 01:22 PM)stebo Wrote:  We need to remind the country that we are all BCS teams and that this should not be "that" big of a deal.

But we are all not BCS, that is the problem, us non-AQ teams do not get an equal share or an equal shot, and that is the way the BCS wants it. That is the whole problem.

Actually, we are. All Div I conferences are now BCS conferences. While we do not have "equal" access to the games in the form of an auto-bid, we have equal access to the other Div I schools because if we are the top ranked team above #12 - we get an auto bid. This has been the case for a few years now... when the contract was renegotiated. The Belt is a member of the BCS, just the same as CUSA and the Big 12. We just do not get an auto bid.

From what I understand - the only two schools that are not BCS schools are Army and Navy... Notre Dame has thier own agreement but Army and Navy do not have conferences that are members of the BCS.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Army and Navy are treated like Notre Dame, except they receive a much
smaller check, have no auto bid--they qualify like the other Non-AQ's.

Huh, I believe you - I just cannot find anywhere on the internet that states it. Do you have a link?
12-11-2009 11:54 AM
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Post: #26
RE: FB: House panel passes college football playoff bill
(12-11-2009 11:54 AM)stebo Wrote:  Huh, I believe you - I just cannot find anywhere on the internet that states it. Do you have a link?

Here you go:

BCS Governance
The BCS is managed by the commissioners of the 11 NCAA Division I-A conferences, the director of athletics at the University of Notre Dame, and representatives of the bowl organizations. The conferences are Atlantic Coast, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, Conference USA, Mid-American, Mountain West, Sun Belt, Pacific 10, Southeastern and Western Athletic.

The conference commissioners and the Notre Dame athletics director make decisions regarding all BCS issues, in consultation with an athletics directors advisory group and subject to the approval of a presidential oversight committee whose members represent all 119 Division 1-A programs.

A conference commissioner serves as BCS coordinator. For the 2008 and 2009 regular seasons, the coordinator is John Swofford, commissioner of the Atlantic Coast Conference.


Read toward the bottom of this link to find what you're asking aobut. http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/bcs_explained.html
12-11-2009 01:51 PM
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RaiderATO Offline
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Post: #27
RE: FB: House panel passes college football playoff bill
The Fiesta bowl gives each team 17,500 to sell. All of the rest are distributed through sponsors and local sales. Iowa would not have any more representatives there than TCU/Boise.

TCU/Boise is OBVIOUSLY the best matchup for Fiesta because we are STILL talking about it more than ANY OTHER BOWL GAME.

There is no FIX going on. Fiesta wouldn't have chosen these teams if it weren't the best matchup for them. Why would Fiesta want to lower its brand below Orange/Sugar/Rose etc.? That's just stupid.
12-11-2009 01:55 PM
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FIUFan Offline
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Post: #28
RE: FB: House panel passes college football playoff bill
(12-11-2009 01:55 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  Why would Fiesta want to lower its brand below Orange/Sugar/Rose etc.? That's just stupid.

I htink you're missing the bigger picture here Raider. The Fiesta takes one for the team this year (i.e. send Iowa to the Orange) plus there are no embarrassing losses for the AQ's and we can have College Football part duex next year. You know, seeding the non-AQ's outside the top-20 so there's no chance of them reaching the National Championship game.

What does a TCU or Boise win in the Fiesta prove now? Nothing. What does TCU rolling Iowa or Boise beating Ga. Tech prove? a. Everything.

'Let's match 'em up and hope the 100 year flood (i.e. the next best AQ team having two losses) doesn't occur next year.'

Also note that this is the last year the non-AQ's don't have a vote at the BCS table (no watchdog). Next year they'll have a lot more say but this year the old boys were up to their usual tricks.
12-11-2009 02:18 PM
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RaiderATO Offline
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Post: #29
RE: FB: House panel passes college football playoff bill
There is no "team" to take a hit for. The BCS games don't want to help another one out. They want to become the game that everyone watches. They want the other teams to get unfavorable matchups.

There is no more of a conspiracy this year than any other. Remove your aluminum foil hat and open your eyes.

Fiesta/Orange/Rose/Sugar don't care if their game "proves" anything. They just want the most exciting matchup. They work like any other bowl game.

And in my eyes, Orange/Rose/Sugar picked some crappy matchups that I'm not interested in seeing. I would have been interested in both games with TCU and Boise. But now I just get one game that I'm really interested in because Fiesta took BOTH exciting teams, leaving the other games without an interesting matchup. Genius, Fiesta! Genius!
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2009 02:30 PM by RaiderATO.)
12-11-2009 02:27 PM
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Post: #30
RE: FB: House panel passes college football playoff bill
(12-11-2009 02:27 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  There is no "team" to take a hit for. The BCS games don't want to help another one out. They want to become the game that everyone watches. They want the other teams to get unfavorable matchups.

There is no more of a conspiracy this year than any other. Remove your aluminum foil hat and open your eyes.

Fiesta/Orange/Rose/Sugar don't care if their game "proves" anything. They just want the most exciting matchup. They work like any other bowl game.

And in my eyes, Orange/Rose/Sugar picked some crappy matchups that I'm not interested in seeing. I would have been interested in both games with TCU and Boise. But now I just get one game that I'm really interested in because Fiesta took BOTH exciting teams, leaving the other games without an interesting matchup. Genius, Fiesta! Genius!

What's an "aluminum foil hat"? How do you make one?
12-11-2009 02:32 PM
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paco Offline
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Post: #31
RE: FB: House panel passes college football playoff bill
(12-11-2009 11:54 AM)stebo Wrote:  
(12-10-2009 03:45 PM)paco Wrote:  
(12-10-2009 03:12 PM)stebo Wrote:  
(12-10-2009 01:39 PM)NCowl Wrote:  
(12-10-2009 01:22 PM)stebo Wrote:  We need to remind the country that we are all BCS teams and that this should not be "that" big of a deal.

But we are all not BCS, that is the problem, us non-AQ teams do not get an equal share or an equal shot, and that is the way the BCS wants it. That is the whole problem.

Actually, we are. All Div I conferences are now BCS conferences. While we do not have "equal" access to the games in the form of an auto-bid, we have equal access to the other Div I schools because if we are the top ranked team above #12 - we get an auto bid. This has been the case for a few years now... when the contract was renegotiated. The Belt is a member of the BCS, just the same as CUSA and the Big 12. We just do not get an auto bid.

From what I understand - the only two schools that are not BCS schools are Army and Navy... Notre Dame has thier own agreement but Army and Navy do not have conferences that are members of the BCS.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Army and Navy are treated like Notre Dame, except they receive a much
smaller check, have no auto bid--they qualify like the other Non-AQ's.

Huh, I believe you - I just cannot find anywhere on the internet that states it. Do you have a link?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The BCS web-site shows revenue for 08/09 to be:
Notre Dame....1.3 million.
Army/Navy......0.2 million. $100,000 dollars each.
ND, Army, Navy get these amounts for being BCS members.

ND gets 4.5 million dollars for a BCS bowl game. I didn't
see it written down---but I'm thinking Army/Navy would also
receive 4.5 million for a BCS bowl game.
BCS Revenue
12-11-2009 03:16 PM
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Post: #32
RE: FB: House panel passes college football playoff bill
(12-11-2009 02:27 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  There is no "team" to take a hit for. The BCS games don't want to help another one out. They want to become the game that everyone watches. They want the other teams to get unfavorable matchups.

There is no more of a conspiracy this year than any other. Remove your aluminum foil hat and open your eyes.

Fiesta/Orange/Rose/Sugar don't care if their game "proves" anything. They just want the most exciting matchup. They work like any other bowl game.

And in my eyes, Orange/Rose/Sugar picked some crappy matchups that I'm not interested in seeing. I would have been interested in both games with TCU and Boise. But now I just get one game that I'm really interested in because Fiesta took BOTH exciting teams, leaving the other games without an interesting matchup. Genius, Fiesta! Genius!

Here you go, found this on the MWC board...seems the bloggers are addressing my theory a heckuvalot more than the 'head in the sand' theory.


BCS Quarantines TCU, Boise in 'Separate But Equal' Bowl

12/07/2009 10:50 PM ET By Clay Travis

If you needed a sign that the BCS muckety-mucks are beginning to tremble behind the Big Six castle walls, a Fiesta Bowl matchup between Boise State and TCU is the latest evidence that something is rotten in Denmark.

I've written before about Congress's antitrust investigations and the fig-leaf design of the BCS entity -- it's not actually named -- that makes everyone gnash their teeth at the end of the season. The Fiesta Bowl matchup between Mountain West and WAC teams is the latest in a string of panicked moves that demonstrate true BCS fear.

First, the BCS named a new leader, then, and you can't even make this stuff up, they added Ari Fleisher, formerly the White House spokesperson for George W. Bush, to help with public relations. Next the BCS added a Twitter page that reads, strangely, as if the Iranian government joined Twitter. Finally, in perhaps the biggest snafu of all, they created a Web site called, wait for it, playoffproblem.com.

All of these moves reflected an inability to comprehend the rapidly shifting sands of social media in the modern era. So this isn't a column about why there should be a playoff -- those have been done plenty of times in the past. This is a column about the BCS's inability to prevent a playoff from happening. In fact, each of these moves has provided further evidence that the BCS will crumble before all is said and done. Why? Because each of these decisions is an attempt at pacification. And pacifiers only work for babies.

Let's begin with the web site which does for the BCS what MTV's Jersey Shore does for the state of New Jersey. That is, it confirms that all of your worst impressions about the state and the system are actually true. Don't believe me, read this language taken directly from the front page of the site:

"Just try to create an eight-team playoff based on latest rankings (December 6th). Should two-loss Oregon (10-2, #7) and Ohio State (10-2, #8) get in but not the other FOUR teams with two losses: Georgia Tech (11-2, #9), Iowa (10A2, #10), Penn State (10-2, #13), BYU (10-2, #14)? If you think the BCS is controversial, try sorting that out. A playoff would guarantee bigger problems, more controversy, more disappointed teams and more frustrated fans."

Read that last sentence again.

Seriously, read it again.

Let's break it down argument style. Keeping in mind, of course, that this is the BCS's official position on why there is no playoff.

Per their Web site, playoffproblem.com, which, by the way, looks as if was designed by eighth graders for a school assignment, the BCS anti-playoff rationale relies on four key points:

A playoff would:

A.) "guarantee bigger problems"

Such as?

If your son or daughter came up to you and said, "I have to get a new car or we're guaranteeing bigger problems," you'd laugh at them, right?

You'd be insulted that they thought so little of your intellect that merely saying, "guarantee bigger problems" would make you consider their situation anew.

Well, the BCS doesn't respect your intellect. That is their argument.

B.) "more controversy"

Again, if you take words that exist with a negative connotation, such as controversy, and put the word "more" in front of them, you aren't really making a constructive argument. You just sound like a lame politician used a charged word to elicit a reaction.

For instance, who is in favor of more robbery? More abortion?

Put simply, tossing the word more in front of a word like controversy is the last refuge of scoundrels.

C.) "more disappointed teams"

Here we go again with the use of the word more. This time it's paired with another negative word.

Who in the world could be in favor of more disappointment?

I'll tell you.

Proponents of genocide and playoffs.

As evidence for their argument, the BCS has once again, brought the strong intellectual capital. They capitalized FOUR in the paragraph, "the other FOUR teams with two losses." Presumably, these would be the disappointed teams, those that are narrowly left out of a playoff. Even if, you know, the teams that are left out include three teams that didn't win their conference and one, Georgia Tech, that not even Tech fans would defend in the wake of the Georgia loss.

Since they want to play the argument via capitalizing words game, I'll play along. Only, I'll raise them one all caps number.

FIVE.

As in: There are FIVE undefeated teams this season. That means THREE teams that haven't lost a game have nothing to play for.

d. "more frustrated fans"

Really?

Would the teams that are left out of the playoff really be more frustrated than they are now? Would teams like Boise State and TCU, who will never get a chance to play for a championship, really be more frustrated by this outcome?

Which brings me to this, matching Boise State and TCU proves that the BCS is running scared.

Why?

Because putting both these teams together eliminates any chance that the non-big six teams could run their record to 5-1 in BCS games. A record, mind you, that would be better than any other single big six conference's record in BCS games on a percentage basis. And a record that would crush the ACC's 2-9 overall performance in twice as many games.

Already Utah has twice proven they can stand toe-to-toe with the big conference teams. So has Boise State in their memorable Fiesta Bowl victory over Oklahoma. Only Hawaii has been embarrassed. And ask Ohio State or Oklahoma if you think Hawaii is the only team with embarrassing losses in the BCS.

Matching either of these teams against big six conference foes would have put the BCS on trial, offering up ready-made proof, yet again, that non-big six teams can contend for the title and beat erstwhile favorites. Would it strike at the firmament of the BCS if both Boise State and TCU finished undefeated behind the winner of Alabama-Texas with wins over big six teams?

Definitely.

Putting them together in a game? Now no matter what happens these teams can't prove they belonged at the big boys table and one of them gets knocked off. With a nod to Dan Wetzel at Yahoo, the BCS has set up their own Plessy v. Ferguson matchup, separate but equal.

What a joke.

At this point, it's probably time to explain how this game happened. Of course, the BCS manipulators are probably hoping that we don't actually call them on what they did, intentionally bring about this game to be certain that the big six powers weren't challenged. How can we be certain of how the teams were picked? By the posted rules governing how the teams were selected.

Here's the story, when Alabama and Texas qualified for the national championship game, the Sugar and Fiesta bowls lost their tie-in teams, Alabama from the SEC and Texas from the Big 12, respectively. This mean that the Sugar and Fiesta bowls received first pick to replace those teams. The Sugar selected Florida, another SEC team. That left the Fiesta, given there was no other Big 12 team available, with a completely open selection.

They could take Cincinnati, they could take Iowa, they could take any team that was selectable. That means they got the team of their choice.

They took TCU.

Next pick went to the Orange Bowl as "the bowl played on the date nearest to the National Championship Game." The Orange Bowl selected Iowa.

Now it was the Fiesta Bowl's pick once again. Amazingly, the Fiesta Bowl had their pick of matchups. They took Boise State.

Voila, the two non-big six teams had, remarkably, been drafted to play against each other.

The Sugar Bowl then took their only remaining choice, Cincinnati, an automatic qualifier from the only conference, the Big East, without a definite tie to the bowl structure.

As if this weren't enough, the BCS cartel rules then permitted the bowls to consider other factors that might make these matchups more or less desirable. Among those considerations, "C. whether the same two teams will play against each other in a bowl game for two consecutive years; and D. whether alternative pairings may have greater or lesser appeal to college football fans as measured by expected ticket sales for the bowls and by expected television interest, and the consequent financial impact on Fox and the bowls."

Boise State and TCU also played last year.

But that's no big deal, the BCS fix was in.


Now when Congress reexamines the bowl structure, the BCS will trot out the bloody flag of the Fiesta Bowl 2010 and assert that the playing field is entirely equal. Even if you and I both know it isn't. But when Boise State-TCU turns into the second-highest rated bowl game of the season, an awful lot of football fans will be voting with their eyes. And once more, another brick on the BCS castle will come tumbling off the parapets. Because no matter how cynical the BCS suits are, we can all see right through them, they're the entity without a name that isn't wearing any clothes.

Right now all the BCS can do is keep attempting to defend a broken system and stave off all attacks. But with every defense of the system, their own position weakens, because you and I are smart enough to see that there's no basis whatsoever for that defense. Ultimately, the BCS can't win the modern era's war of ideas because their idea is plain wrong. And if you can't win the war of ideas in a 21st century media environment, you're as good as dead.

Coming soon the BCS's own Joshua, the evolving social media landscape that democritizes criticism and makes mass protest possible, is going to blow his horn. And on that day, the mealy-mouthed defenses of a broken system will magically cease as the BCS walls come crumbling down.

Until then, the BCS is foredoomed to failure.

It's a dead plan walking.
(This post was last modified: 12-11-2009 03:47 PM by FIUFan.)
12-11-2009 03:38 PM
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RaiderATO Offline
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Post: #33
RE: FB: House panel passes college football playoff bill
Ugh. Or you could argue that they chose the teams that would create the most interesting matchup and get the most pre-game conversation.

Boise gave them a classic game that will always be remembered. Why not try for another one with Boise and TCU this time? They could have left Boise out altogether. There was nothing making any bowl choose them. If they wanted to unite and stand together then they would have left Boise out of a BCS game completely.
12-11-2009 04:30 PM
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paco Offline
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Post: #34
RE: FB: House panel passes college football playoff bill
Apparently the Washington Post doesn't care for the BCS either.BCS Article
12-11-2009 05:04 PM
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Post: #35
RE: FB: House panel passes college football playoff bill
(12-11-2009 04:30 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  Ugh. Or you could argue that they chose the teams that would create the most interesting matchup and get the most pre-game conversation.

Boise gave them a classic game that will always be remembered. Why not try for another one with Boise and TCU this time? They could have left Boise out altogether. There was nothing making any bowl choose them. If they wanted to unite and stand together then they would have left Boise out of a BCS game completely.

Yeah. Leave the #6 team out instead of who? Your whole arguement rests on pre-game conversation and 90% of that is that the non-AQ's are getting screwed...pretty thin.
12-12-2009 04:13 PM
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RaiderATO Offline
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Post: #36
RE: FB: House panel passes college football playoff bill
And your whole argument rests on conspiracy theories and a Fiesta wanting to lose millions of dollars to pat its buddies on the back.

In reality, they will get millions of MORE dollars and these other bowls are not their buddies.

My argument is based on fact. They wanted these two teams. They did not have to choose either of them. Fiesta could have chosen Cincinnati, or Iowa. But they wanted TCU. Then they could have chosen Cincinnati. But they wanted Boise St.
12-12-2009 06:01 PM
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A chip, a chair, and a chance
Quote:Do away with that and Troy is the only team going to the post season this year... and would get stuck playing the #1 seed the first week. No thank you.

Dream a little bigger my Mean Green Friend. It's not going to be a given that the Sunbelt Champ will always be the number 16 seed. If it is based somehow on overall conference rankings, we could easily slide up past the MAC soon and be in striking distance of the WAC and CUSA. If a commitee assigns the seeds based on the individual teams, even better. A double digit win Sunbelt team could leap frog several of the non-AQ conference champs and maybe even one of the at-large teams. The impossible starts to become the improbable then it becomes the inevitable.

And on a side note, as much as it pains me to say it, I think my team (Troy) beating Alabama would still be in the impossible category, but with a televised game, an in-state rival that refuses to acknowledge our existence, and (hopefully) refs from a neutral conference, we'd give 'em all the hell the wanted. Then next year, maybe our conference champ gets a little more respect and we might move up a seed or two.

You can win a poker game with just one chip, but you've got to get a seat at the table first.
(This post was last modified: 12-12-2009 07:28 PM by littlebittyschool.)
12-12-2009 07:25 PM
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FIUFan Offline
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Posts: 4,498
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I Root For: FIU
Location: Coral Gables, FL
Post: #38
RE: FB: House panel passes college football playoff bill
"In reality, they will get millions of MORE dollars and these other bowls are not their buddies."

We'll see. I hope you're right.
12-12-2009 07:32 PM
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