(09-15-2009 05:01 PM)Peligro! Wrote:  Your assumtion here is that UTSA will bring in literally -0- money or LESS mean revenue than than the current Sunbelt schools...Now you may know what this number is, but if you have it I would love to forecast some UTSA numbers to see how they compare.

Any new team in the conference will take a share of basketball credits from the NCAA, and any new team will be one more competitor for the conference's one bowl game and one NCAA tournament bid.

Therefore any prospective new member must in some way generate revenue for the existing members to offset those shares in order for those members to voluntarily want to invite a new member.

There are a finite number of ways that UTSA could do that.

#1. You could go to a major bowl game or better yet... win one. Maybe you know deep down in your heart that UTSA would do this but outside of UTSA people will be rightly skeptical. Why do you think that UTSA has a better chance of this than any program that is already years or decades ahead of UTSA that is already in the Belt?

#2. The name recognition / quality of your program generates fan interest that draws more fans to games. Outside of UNT who might want an instate rival, this is not going to happen.

#3. UTSA travels well and buys tickets to our home games. Again, outside of UNT are you really going to tell me that UTSA would buy any significant amount of tickets from anyone in the conference?

#4. Get at large bids or win NCAA tournament basketball games. This would earn additional credits from the NCAA that would provide a revenue stream paid out to every conference member over a 6 year span. If you're not doing that now... why should we think you would in the Sunbelt?

#5. Sell 10's and 10's of thousands of tickets for a Sunbelt championship game. Not sure that any other teams would get a share of that to start with, but in order for this one to kick in you would first have to win the regular season championship (assuming a regular season gets home field model). Well, I'm not sure that UTSA taking the championship away from the rest of us is all that enticing.

#6. TV revenue. UTSA is so appealing to cable and broadcast networks that said networks are willing to pay UTSA large sums of money for television rights, which UTSA is willing to split with the rest of the conference. This is not likely and even if it is possible it would not happen for years or even decades.


I can't think of another possible way that UTSA could make any money for the rest of us. And as such, yes. I am assuming that UTSA would bring ZERO additional money to the conference (if not negative revenue). Ergo, there is very little reason to invite UTSA or anyone else really (possilble exception of Missouri State).

(09-16-2009 03:27 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  

(09-16-2009 09:03 AM)FIUFan Wrote:  As much as I love USA as a strong member of the Belt in all sports they participate in; won't the addition of them set the Sun Belt back yet another 10 years as we try to claw our way up to the other non-AQ conferences?

These schools you're speaking of are already conference members. If they offer an SBC sponsored sport, they must play in the SBC. But, it's a benefit more than a detriment.

Since we've gotten to 9 FB teams, worst case these new teams would create an easy win for the top half of the conference. Which could allow more bowl eligible teams. Leading to a better perception. The fewer "out of our league" teams the SBC plays, the better it will appear.

They're not siphoning off many more funds, and they're already contributing to the league in other areas. It's completely different than adding an entirely new school to the league. And I think everyone anticipates a big benefit from USA, like was seen in FIU, FAU when they were added (although the circumstances weren't the same).

Good points, I agree with them all. That's why I asked the question... to get it out there.

Well, that didn't take long. USA managed to get an article in the paper (at least the on-line version) the same day as concerns were brought up on this board. Clearly that community is reading this board.

http://www.sunherald.com/sports/story/1609575.html

(09-16-2009 07:46 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(09-15-2009 05:01 PM)Peligro! Wrote:  Your assumtion here is that UTSA will bring in literally -0- money or LESS mean revenue than than the current Sunbelt schools...Now you may know what this number is, but if you have it I would love to forecast some UTSA numbers to see how they compare.

Any new team in the conference will take a share of basketball credits from the NCAA, and any new team will be one more competitor for the conference's one bowl game and one NCAA tournament bid.

Therefore any prospective new member must in some way generate revenue for the existing members to offset those shares in order for those members to voluntarily want to invite a new member.

There are a finite number of ways that UTSA could do that.

#1. You could go to a major bowl game or better yet... win one. Maybe you know deep down in your heart that UTSA would do this but outside of UTSA people will be rightly skeptical. Why do you think that UTSA has a better chance of this than any program that is already years or decades ahead of UTSA that is already in the Belt?

#2. The name recognition / quality of your program generates fan interest that draws more fans to games. Outside of UNT who might want an instate rival, this is not going to happen.

#3. UTSA travels well and buys tickets to our home games. Again, outside of UNT are you really going to tell me that UTSA would buy any significant amount of tickets from anyone in the conference?

#4. Get at large bids or win NCAA tournament basketball games. This would earn additional credits from the NCAA that would provide a revenue stream paid out to every conference member over a 6 year span. If you're not doing that now... why should we think you would in the Sunbelt?

#5. Sell 10's and 10's of thousands of tickets for a Sunbelt championship game. Not sure that any other teams would get a share of that to start with, but in order for this one to kick in you would first have to win the regular season championship (assuming a regular season gets home field model). Well, I'm not sure that UTSA taking the championship away from the rest of us is all that enticing.

#6. TV revenue. UTSA is so appealing to cable and broadcast networks that said networks are willing to pay UTSA large sums of money for television rights, which UTSA is willing to split with the rest of the conference. This is not likely and even if it is possible it would not happen for years or even decades.


I can't think of another possible way that UTSA could make any money for the rest of us. And as such, yes. I am assuming that UTSA would bring ZERO additional money to the conference (if not negative revenue). Ergo, there is very little reason to invite UTSA or anyone else really (possilble exception of Missouri State).

Great points, except for the ZERO money part and the 'negative revenue'...whatever that is. Oh yeah and me saying we would 'win' a major bowl??? I am pretty sure I made no such comment. Obviously our first years playing are going to be rough.

I do beleive you could play a conf championship here and pull in 'tens of thousands' of people. I dont know how that works, but Texas loves football and if we can pull 35k in the dome for the highschool all american game we can certainly get a few people in for high calibre (well you know what I mean) FBS football.

Yeah we might cause a little negative cash flow from the start, but we all know that would subside. I guess we will all just have to wait and see. Even if we don't join the sunbelt I do indeed look forward to plent of out of conference match ups. We are in the same footprint so we'll see you around for sure.

Good luck Jags, I think everything will work out for you guys, it seems like everything is already lined up!

(09-18-2009 11:55 AM)Peligro! Wrote:  Good luck Jags, I think everything will work out for you guys, it seems like everything is already lined up!

Thanks, Peligro! I look forward to our 2011 & 2012 home and home series (2011 in San Antonio, 2012 at Ladd-Peebles)

(09-18-2009 11:55 AM)Peligro! Wrote:  Yeah we might cause a little negative cash flow from the start, but we all know that would subside.

In order for that to "subside" UTSA would have to do one or more of the 6 things listed above. The whole point of my post is that I think adding teams would probably lose money for the existing Sunbelt schools.

I might grant you that it is possible for UTSA to draw tens of thousands of fans for a championship game in San Antonio, but again... in order for that to happen you have to win the conference instead of the current teams winning the confernce. How is that a good deal for us?

(09-18-2009 05:08 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(09-18-2009 11:55 AM)Peligro! Wrote:  Yeah we might cause a little negative cash flow from the start, but we all know that would subside.

In order for that to "subside" UTSA would have to do one or more of the 6 things listed above. The whole point of my post is that I think adding teams would probably lose money for the existing Sunbelt schools.

I might grant you that it is possible for UTSA to draw tens of thousands of fans for a championship game in San Antonio, but again... in order for that to happen you have to win the conference instead of the current teams winning the confernce. How is that a good deal for us?

I doubt seriously that a Belt championship game in San Antonio would draw near enough to fill the Alamo Dome.

(09-18-2009 11:55 AM)Peligro! Wrote:  Oh yeah and me saying we would 'win' a major bowl??? I am pretty sure I made no such comment. Obviously our first years playing are going to be rough.

I didn't mean to imply that you had said that although I understand how you took it that way. What I meant was that one of the ways that UTSA could make money for the rest of the conference is by going to or winning a major bowl but that doing so is unlikely.

The whole point of my post is that there are only so many ways that new teams can possibly make money for the current Sunbelt teams and that all of the ways that they can are very unlikely.

If I was UTSA, I would be getting my basketball program up while football is getting started. No Texas school really stands out as a mid-major program, the chance is there to do something that would really enhance your program.

(09-18-2009 06:46 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  If I was UTSA, I would be getting my basketball program up while football is getting started. No Texas school really stands out as a mid-major program, the chance is there to do something that would really enhance your program.

Bingo.

(09-18-2009 06:16 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(09-18-2009 11:55 AM)Peligro! Wrote:  Oh yeah and me saying we would 'win' a major bowl??? I am pretty sure I made no such comment. Obviously our first years playing are going to be rough.

I didn't mean to imply that you had said that although I understand how you took it that way. What I meant was that one of the ways that UTSA could make money for the rest of the conference is by going to or winning a major bowl but that doing so is unlikely.

The whole point of my post is that there are only so many ways that new teams can possibly make money for the current Sunbelt teams and that all of the ways that they can are very unlikely.

No doubt, I get it, I am just playing the other side here, plus there don't seem to be any posters anywhere backing up UTSA.

The truth is we have no idea what Larry Coker is putting together, but we can assume the coaching aspect will not be a problem.

Some positives not everyone may know is that our AD is on the NCAA tourney selection committee. (The sunbelt is not currently represented)

We have been to the big dance a total of three times which is more than Troy, FIU, FAU, Ark State, and UNT. We have never won a game, but the same can be said about the aformentioned schools. Obviously we need to work on our program, but the southland just does not attract basketball talent the way other conferences do. And even as is we would be in the middle of the pack in the sunbelt when it comes to tourney appearances.

However it still remains a respectable football conference. (I believe the WKU boys are playing a southland team tomorrow).

And finally the overall visibility every year during the army all american high school game and the new and improved alamobowl (PAc-10 #2 vs big12 #3) wont hurt, IE having the sunbelt logo plastered all over everything.

That is just a handful of reasons to like UTSA, but I feel you guys on not wanting to expand, I just think at the end of the day you will expand and in all reality not for UTSA.

Go Runners Go

Like the Missouri St fan said if an AD at Georgia Southern, UTSA, Texas State, UCA, whoever it is that has thier eyes on Sunbelt membership really wanted to join then they should focus on basketball as counter intuitive as that might seem.

Make sure the facilities are up to par (either rennovate or build, should have stellar practice facilities) up the recruiting budget, up the marketing budget, and make sure you have the right coaching staff in place. If you do those things there is no reason that any of the programs above couldn't build a consistent winner within 5 years and maybe have a shot at an upset in the NCAA. That will turn more heads than anything any program not named Appalachian State could do in FCS football.