That's not to be hateful towards them (actually their fans are quite nice, and I like their BBall style of play a great deal), but they can't be happy in the Sun Belt. What's the word on this? Is there a holdup or what is the deal?

Agreed.. Bump?

They are looking around for a new conference home; I think they have until 2012.

I'd say Denver's probably in good shape to get that spot in the Summit. I'd be surprised if they're not in negotiations with the Summit and the Summit's top target.

I think once North Dakota gets their nickname situation resolved and is announced as the 11th school in the Summit (replacing Centenary), we'll see some movement on the 12th school in the Summit.

I think Denver would love to be in the WCC, WAC, MWC or MVC if an opportunity presented itself, but none of those seem at all likely at this point.

Then you have the Big Sky and Summit, which seem a little more possible, but most of the schools in those conferences are no more attractive in Denver than the Sun Belt schools are.

So, we wait....

(08-18-2009 08:12 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  I think once North Dakota gets their nickname situation resolved and is announced as the 11th school in the Summit (replacing Centenary), we'll see some movement on the 12th school in the Summit.

Unless Chicago State is invited back to the Summit (and I don't know how likely that might be), it looks like the battle for the final spot will be waged between Denver and Utah Valley. Geographically the Summit's not much of a better fit for Denver with teams in Indiana and Michigan, but there are at least some western teams, including the Dakota teams with whom, I believe - and correct me if I'm wrong - Denver has a hockey rivalry. In Utah Valley's favor, they take Southern Utah off an island. Of course, maybe the Summit's just praying that Southern Utah gets into the Big Sky in the near future so they don't have any teams that far west, so they may not want to add another western team.

Utah Valley sponsors 13 of the 17 sports sponsored by the Summit including baseball.
Denver sponsors 11 of the 17 sports sponsored by the Summit.

Or better yet, start football.

Denver definitely has the money to do so, and very competitive in most other sports.

Summit wouldnt be too bad for Denver geographically wise. 4 Dakotas, Southern Utah, KC and Tulsa are fairly close to Denver. If you schedule right during the OOC time it could end up attractive.

(08-19-2009 10:43 AM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  Or better yet, start football.

Denver definitely has the money to do so, and very competitive in most other sports.

Agree. I actually don't understand why Denver hasn't offered football, at least at the FCS level. They'd be an attractive school I think, but I guess they prefer to focus on hockey.

The school is absolutely loaded. They have plenty of $$$$ for both hockey and football.

(08-19-2009 10:22 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(08-19-2009 10:43 AM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  Or better yet, start football.

Denver definitely has the money to do so, and very competitive in most other sports.

Agree. I actually don't understand why Denver hasn't offered football, at least at the FCS level. They'd be an attractive school I think, but I guess they prefer to focus on hockey.

(08-19-2009 10:22 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(08-19-2009 10:43 AM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  Or better yet, start football.

Denver definitely has the money to do so, and very competitive in most other sports.

Agree. I actually don't understand why Denver hasn't offered football, at least at the FCS level. They'd be an attractive school I think, but I guess they prefer to focus on hockey.

DU just coaxed the acclaimed Princeton lacrosse coach to head the Pioneer's lacrosse program. Denver clearly aspires to be the first western national power in that sport: joining Syracuse, Virginia, N Carolina, Princeton, Hopkins, etc. High school kids in metro Denver are crazy about lacrosse: lacrosse can do more for DU than FCS football ever could.

Denver had D-I football from 1886 to 1961, and had a 30,000-seat stadium on campus until 1971, when it was torn down. There were even three bowl appreances (Sun Bowl, Alamo Bowl and Pineapple Bowl) in the late 40s. The program was discontinued because it was losing $100,000 a year in 1961 dollars, which would be millions in today's money. At the same time, a new AFL football team in the early 60s named the Denver Broncos siphoned off most of the local football fan base.

At the same time, DU's hockey team became National Champs in 1958, 60 and 61 which made it easier for the administration to drop football at the time. Hockey is now the flagship sport at Denver, and the school is a seven time NCAA champion.

Today, there is no administrative push for football, as most people around DU think it would be almost impossible for DU to be truly competitive for several reasons.

1) CASH: While DU is well endowed, The money that it takes to be truly competitive at a D-I level in football is pretty staggering, and BCS level is simply never going to happen. DU tends to do those sports that it has a chance to be successful doing.

2) No Stadium: No room for an on-campus facility. The current campus is maxed out and is in a neighborhood of the city that would likely fight against a stadium being constructed.

3) Little Local Love for the school:DU would like not draw more than 10,000 fans. There is little local affinity for the school, as it is small (5,000 undergrads) private, and draws much of its student body from out of state. Colorado is also full of transplant fans who tend to follow the teams they left behind.

4) Oversaturated: The market is so oversaturated here - there are about 8 proteams (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS, MLL, CHL, etc) plus four other larger D-I public universities within an hour - CU, CSU, Northern Colorado and Air Force all struggle to fill their own stadiums, and these are all public schools. Two hours away is Wyoming, which also struggles to fill seats.

5) Recruiting: DU is not in a great football recruiting area. Few Colorado kids make it to D-I, and to be successful in football, you need to be able to get good in state kids, plus reach out elsewhere. DU would be picking third at best in for Colorado kids, and this area is not Florida or Texas in producing top talent.

(08-20-2009 04:19 PM)puck swami Wrote:  Denver had D-I football from 1886 to 1961, and had a 30,000-seat stadium on campus until 1971, when it was torn down. There were even three bowl appreances (Sun Bowl, Alamo Bowl and Pineapple Bowl) in the late 40s.

So what you're saying is that despite not having football for nearly 50 years... The Pioneers are tied for second in the Sun Belt (with MTSU and Troy) in bowl appearances?

Interesting...

Puck, excellent analysis.

The explosion of professional football really changed the landscape of college football.
Tulane while never a "power" faded after the Saints arrived and have been ranked once since 1973 in the final polls.
SMU ranked 7 times until 1968 has been five times since, the last two years before the death penalty.
TCU was ranked 8 times in the final poll until the Cowboys arrived. After a top 10 finish in 1959 didn't crack the final polls again until 2000 and have done quite well since.
Miami rated 7 times until the Dolphins arrived went on a 13 year drought before re-emerging.

It isn't impossible but it isn't easy either for private colleges to draw football support. It helps to have good circumstances too such as in LA where there is football interest but for the most part had NFL competition that ranged from good but underachieving to bad.

It really doesn't matter what conference you are in - when you get out into the wide open spaces of the west, the distances are going to be considerable. But the vastness of the SBC is rivalled only by the WAC. Wonder if we could get a swap: Denver for LaTech? (Won't happen - just a joke)

[quote/]

So what you're saying is that despite not having football for nearly 50 years... The Pioneers are tied for second in the Sun Belt (with MTSU and Troy) in bowl appearances?

Interesting...
[/quote]

Yep.

1946 Sun Bowl in El Paso - New Mexico 34, Denver 24
1947 Alamo Bowl in San Antonio - Hardin Simmons 20, Denver 0
1951 Pineapple Bowl in Honolulu- Hawaii 28, Denver 27

Here's a look at our ex-Stadium....

http://www.du.edu/magazine/archive/2006/04/History.html

Once the nickname issue is resolved at North Dakota, look for them to be added to the Summit, and then Denver makes a whole lot of sense as the league's 12th member. North Dakota is Denver's biggest rival in hockey and that should carry over somewhat to other sports as well.

The other thing is that the Summit's geography is not done shrinking yet. At some point, enough realignment is going to happen to get Southern Utah into the Big Sky, which is why Utah Valley really has no shot at the league now. The replacement will be located more to the East.

(08-20-2009 10:55 PM)Krocker Krapp Wrote:  Once the nickname issue is resolved at North Dakota, look for them to be added to the Summit, and then Denver makes a whole lot of sense as the league's 12th member. North Dakota is Denver's biggest rival in hockey and that should carry over somewhat to other sports as well.

The other thing is that the Summit's geography is not done shrinking yet. At some point, enough realignment is going to happen to get Southern Utah into the Big Sky, which is why Utah Valley really has no shot at the league now. The replacement will be located more to the East.

Krocker is probably right on here, save for one small detail. North Dakota is Denver's second major hockey rival, after Colorado College, a D-III school that was been playing hockey at the highest (D-I) level for 70 years. Denver and and CC are the only private schools in the WCHA and are 70 miles apart. However, Denver and North Dakota rivalry is also very strong recently, as Denver has knocked some great UND out of the NCAAs and in WCHA tournaments in recent years.

Unless some other scenario league shakes out, I could see DU moving to the Summit.