US forces are withdrawing from cities in Iraq.

In less than three months cyberdamos forecasts tribal and religious factions will return to what has been their behavior and history - killing one another.

Anyone hoping for the birth of democracy in a land living in the middle ages is likely delusional.

(06-30-2009 09:22 PM)cyberdawg Wrote:  US forces are withdrawing from cities in Iraq.

In less than three months cyberdamos forecasts tribal and religious factions will return to what has been their behavior and history - killing one another.

Anyone hoping for the birth of democracy in a land living in the middle ages is likely delusional.

Sorry to tell you this Cybes but before we went in both sides were living together in relative "peace" in Iraq. Many "interreligious"(not sure if that is a word) marriages, friendships and just public mixing without problems. Our occupation caused part of the problem of division.

(07-01-2009 01:41 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(06-30-2009 09:22 PM)cyberdawg Wrote:  US forces are withdrawing from cities in Iraq.

In less than three months cyberdamos forecasts tribal and religious factions will return to what has been their behavior and history - killing one another.

Anyone hoping for the birth of democracy in a land living in the middle ages is likely delusional.

Sorry to tell you this Cybes but before we went in both sides were living together in relative "peace" in Iraq. Many "interreligious"(not sure if that is a word) marriages, friendships and just public mixing without problems. Our occupation caused part of the problem of division.

So the Kurds, Shites and Sunni's were living in peace? Ask the Kurds who were regularly gased by Sadam and the Sunnis. The Sunnis killed anyone that got in their way.

(07-01-2009 07:02 AM)klake87 Wrote:  

(07-01-2009 01:41 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(06-30-2009 09:22 PM)cyberdawg Wrote:  US forces are withdrawing from cities in Iraq.

In less than three months cyberdamos forecasts tribal and religious factions will return to what has been their behavior and history - killing one another.

Anyone hoping for the birth of democracy in a land living in the middle ages is likely delusional.

Sorry to tell you this Cybes but before we went in both sides were living together in relative "peace" in Iraq. Many "interreligious"(not sure if that is a word) marriages, friendships and just public mixing without problems. Our occupation caused part of the problem of division.

So the Kurds, Shites and Sunni's were living in peace? Ask the Kurds who were regularly gased by Sadam and the Sunnis. The Sunnis killed anyone that got in their way.

Absolutely true. RobertN is living in his typical beyond-left la-la world from where he cannot see reality. The Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds (large and small) have always been at each other's throats...and always will be. That is, until they can get a common enemy to fight. Then when they are done playing their killing games against their enemy, they will go back to cutting each other's heads off. Nice "people" to invite to your next social affair, eh?

(07-01-2009 07:53 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  

(07-01-2009 07:02 AM)klake87 Wrote:  

(07-01-2009 01:41 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(06-30-2009 09:22 PM)cyberdawg Wrote:  US forces are withdrawing from cities in Iraq.

In less than three months cyberdamos forecasts tribal and religious factions will return to what has been their behavior and history - killing one another.

Anyone hoping for the birth of democracy in a land living in the middle ages is likely delusional.

Sorry to tell you this Cybes but before we went in both sides were living together in relative "peace" in Iraq. Many "interreligious"(not sure if that is a word) marriages, friendships and just public mixing without problems. Our occupation caused part of the problem of division.

So the Kurds, Shites and Sunni's were living in peace? Ask the Kurds who were regularly gased by Sadam and the Sunnis. The Sunnis killed anyone that got in their way.

Absolutely true. RobertN is living in his typical beyond-left la-la world from where he cannot see reality. The Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds (large and small) have always been at each other's throats...and always will be. That is, until they can get a common enemy to fight. Then when they are done playing their killing games against their enemy, they will go back to cutting each other's heads off. Nice "people" to invite to your next social affair, eh?

Sometimes I don't respond to RobertN's comments because they are so insane. The interesting thing with Iraq is that security is now done by their own people and they are killing their own people. The U.S. military is not the only target of these attacks. It is a sad and scary world we live in.

All the more reason to leave once and for all. Why get in the middle between rival groups that are bent on being hostile to one another. Help what Christians and Jews are left in the country to get out and resettle. Move the rest of US troops to Afghanistan to take out Bin Laden which is what should have been done 8 years ago to begin with.

(07-01-2009 01:41 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(06-30-2009 09:22 PM)cyberdawg Wrote:  US forces are withdrawing from cities in Iraq.

In less than three months cyberdamos forecasts tribal and religious factions will return to what has been their behavior and history - killing one another.

Anyone hoping for the birth of democracy in a land living in the middle ages is likely delusional.

Sorry to tell you this Cybes but before we went in both sides were living together in relative "peace" in Iraq. Many "interreligious"(not sure if that is a word) marriages, friendships and just public mixing without problems. Our occupation caused part of the problem of division.

Wow Robert. Cannot believe you think that.

(07-02-2009 04:12 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  

(07-01-2009 01:41 AM)RobertN Wrote:  

(06-30-2009 09:22 PM)cyberdawg Wrote:  US forces are withdrawing from cities in Iraq.

In less than three months cyberdamos forecasts tribal and religious factions will return to what has been their behavior and history - killing one another.

Anyone hoping for the birth of democracy in a land living in the middle ages is likely delusional.

Sorry to tell you this Cybes but before we went in both sides were living together in relative "peace" in Iraq. Many "interreligious"(not sure if that is a word) marriages, friendships and just public mixing without problems. Our occupation caused part of the problem of division.

Wow Robert. Cannot believe you think that.

Most of the rest of us can't either, MD. Robert is so far to the left that he cannot see the center with binoculars. He blames the US for most of the world's wrongs rather than the Muslim extremists. He never cites the true cause, and he has a warped belief that the US is the world's big bad bully. He never criticizes the Muslims, only the US. While I understand that it's a typical ultra-left position and that Robert is also defending a Muslim member of his family, his view of reality is so distorted that it's scary.

I know that Robert is a nice guy with a big heart, and I really like the guy. We just need to work on getting him a good-paying job so that he can enter the American mainstream and espouse the virtues of capitalism. And while we're helping Robert, if we can help him get laid, I'm sure that will help his demeanor, too!

Robert.

The "reason" why factions in Iraq were living in "peace" is the iron fisted terrorism practiced by S. Hussein.

Same was true when Tito died and Yugoslavia reverted to the animosities among ethic/religious factions including my ancestors who still talk about what happened hundreds of years ago.

(07-02-2009 08:39 PM)cyberdawg Wrote:  Robert.

The "reason" why factions in Iraq were living in "peace" is the iron fisted terrorism practiced by S. Hussein.

Same was true when Tito died and Yugoslavia reverted to the animosities among ethic/religious factions including my ancestors who still talk about what happened hundreds of years ago.

...Exactly..... Peace to some people means it is NOT reported in American media, but THOUSANDS were slaughtered under Saddam.

Iraq has had free elections since we have been there and do not fool yourself the Persians living across the river under the tyrannical Mullahs have noticed. Our President defined that sham of an election as "robust debate".

Obama very wisely has stayed away from saying much about Iran, all the better when that country collapses and no objective observe can blame any of it on the US. Perhaps US airplanes can do some recon work near the Iranian-Russian border from the Russian and Krygystanian airbases the US Airforce can now operate from.

(07-05-2009 07:32 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  Obama very wisely has stayed away from saying much about Iran, all the better when that country collapses and no objective observe can blame any of it on the US. Perhaps US airplanes can do some recon work near the Iranian-Russian border from the Russian and Krygystanian airbases the US Airforce can now operate from.

Given that mindset, Reagan should have never said "tear down this wall."

The Amazing Cyberdamos admits to his faulty forecast.

It's taken alot less than 3 months for hell to erupt again in Iraq.

http://www.daily-chronicle.com/articles/.../index.xm/

wait the scrolling to top stories: Violence in Iraq

(07-08-2009 11:25 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(07-05-2009 07:32 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  Obama very wisely has stayed away from saying much about Iran, all the better when that country collapses and no objective observe can blame any of it on the US. Perhaps US airplanes can do some recon work near the Iranian-Russian border from the Russian and Krygystanian airbases the US Airforce can now operate from.

Given that mindset, Reagan should have never said "tear down this wall."

The Project for a New American Century types give Reagan far too much credit for eastern Europe leaving the grip of the Soviet Union. It had far more with the USSR no longer having the resources to prop up poorer nations like Slovakia, Bulgaria and Romania plus all the diplomatic and PR work Pope John Paul II put in along Solidarity and other trade unions that brought the change.

Lenin was once quoted asking how many divisions the Pope had, Gorbachev learned the answer to that question.

The dislike for America that exists in the Arab world never did among the eastern European populace under Soviet domination. Many Poles, Czechs and East Germans had family in the US and had an idea of what they were missing w/o democracy. Letting Iraq topple under it's own weight naturally and then offering support to a new regime is a way to keep the US out of any more entanglements than we already have.

(07-10-2009 12:56 AM)onlinepole Wrote:  The Project for a New American Century types give Reagan far too much credit for eastern Europe leaving the grip of the Soviet Union. It had far more with the USSR no longer having the resources to prop up poorer nations like Slovakia, Bulgaria and Romania plus all the diplomatic and PR work Pope John Paul II put in along Solidarity and other trade unions that brought the change.

The dislike for America that exists in the Arab world never did among the eastern European populace under Soviet domination. Many Poles, Czechs and East Germans had family in the US and had an idea of what they were missing w/o democracy. Letting Iraq topple under it's own weight naturally and then offering support to a new regime is a way to keep the US out of any more entanglements than we already have.

Russia didn't have the resources to prop up poorer nations because they were trying to match our military buildup. And, if you are a reader of history, you'd know our clandestine forces did a lot of work with the Pope behind the scenes to support the democracy movement in Poland.

You honestly believe that if Jimmy Carter was re-elected in 1980, the USSR would have fallen without Reagan? That is ridiculous. He was another "we just have to talk it out" like the current guy.

As a loyal dem, I suppose you were vocal in your opposition to Bill Clinton's planned invasion of Haiti to reinstall Aristide (we had planes in the air when they were called back due to the military junta agreeing to give up), the bombing of Serbia, etc. Let the regimes fall on their own. Sure.

(07-10-2009 07:48 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(07-10-2009 12:56 AM)onlinepole Wrote:  The Project for a New American Century types give Reagan far too much credit for eastern Europe leaving the grip of the Soviet Union. It had far more with the USSR no longer having the resources to prop up poorer nations like Slovakia, Bulgaria and Romania plus all the diplomatic and PR work Pope John Paul II put in along Solidarity and other trade unions that brought the change.

The dislike for America that exists in the Arab world never did among the eastern European populace under Soviet domination. Many Poles, Czechs and East Germans had family in the US and had an idea of what they were missing w/o democracy. Letting Iraq topple under it's own weight naturally and then offering support to a new regime is a way to keep the US out of any more entanglements than we already have.

Russia didn't have the resources to prop up poorer nations because they were trying to match our military buildup. And, if you are a reader of history, you'd know our clandestine forces did a lot of work with the Pope behind the scenes to support the democracy movement in Poland.

You honestly believe that if Jimmy Carter was re-elected in 1980, the USSR would have fallen without Reagan? That is ridiculous. He was another "we just have to talk it out" like the current guy.

As a loyal dem, I suppose you were vocal in your opposition to Bill Clinton's planned invasion of Haiti to reinstall Aristide (we had planes in the air when they were called back due to the military junta agreeing to give up), the bombing of Serbia, etc. Let the regimes fall on their own. Sure.

Without a doubt in my mind, Jimmy Carter was the worst president during my lifetime. The peanut farmer still opens his mouth when he should keep it shut. He should just go out in his boat (preferably in shark-infested waters) and lust after other women just like the good old days.

(07-10-2009 07:48 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(07-10-2009 12:56 AM)onlinepole Wrote:  The Project for a New American Century types give Reagan far too much credit for eastern Europe leaving the grip of the Soviet Union. It had far more with the USSR no longer having the resources to prop up poorer nations like Slovakia, Bulgaria and Romania plus all the diplomatic and PR work Pope John Paul II put in along Solidarity and other trade unions that brought the change.

The dislike for America that exists in the Arab world never did among the eastern European populace under Soviet domination. Many Poles, Czechs and East Germans had family in the US and had an idea of what they were missing w/o democracy. Letting Iraq topple under it's own weight naturally and then offering support to a new regime is a way to keep the US out of any more entanglements than we already have.

Russia didn't have the resources to prop up poorer nations because they were trying to match our military buildup. And, if you are a reader of history, you'd know our clandestine forces did a lot of work with the Pope behind the scenes to support the democracy movement in Poland.

You honestly believe that if Jimmy Carter was re-elected in 1980, the USSR would have fallen without Reagan? That is ridiculous. He was another "we just have to talk it out" like the current guy.

As a loyal dem, I suppose you were vocal in your opposition to Bill Clinton's planned invasion of Haiti to reinstall Aristide (we had planes in the air when they were called back due to the military junta agreeing to give up), the bombing of Serbia, etc. Let the regimes fall on their own. Sure.

100% right on Russia ..they could not meet Reagen's ante.....and today Putin still HATES our defensive weapons especially the ones that would defend the very freedom Reagan and the west fought so hard to win. He would like to have the option to walk into Poland like he did Georgia.

and BTW, .....Hati and Serbia never fired on American troops, never locked down on American aircraft, never violated their treaty, never killed & terrorized Americans and never attempted to assassinate an American President.

(07-10-2009 12:56 AM)onlinepole Wrote:  

(07-08-2009 11:25 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(07-05-2009 07:32 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  Obama very wisely has stayed away from saying much about Iran, all the better when that country collapses and no objective observe can blame any of it on the US. Perhaps US airplanes can do some recon work near the Iranian-Russian border from the Russian and Krygystanian airbases the US Airforce can now operate from.

Given that mindset, Reagan should have never said "tear down this wall."

The Project for a New American Century types give Reagan far too much credit for eastern Europe leaving the grip of the Soviet Union. It had far more with the USSR no longer having the resources to prop up poorer nations like Slovakia, Bulgaria and Romania plus all the diplomatic and PR work Pope John Paul II put in along Solidarity and other trade unions that brought the change.

Lenin was once quoted asking how many divisions the Pope had, Gorbachev learned the answer to that question.

The dislike for America that exists in the Arab world never did among the eastern European populace under Soviet domination. Many Poles, Czechs and East Germans had family in the US and had an idea of what they were missing w/o democracy. Letting Iraq topple under it's own weight naturally and then offering support to a new regime is a way to keep the US out of any more entanglements than we already have.

Stalin said that about the pope and his divisions.

In any case, Im in the camp that thinks that the soviet system was not meant to compete with 1st world countries such as the United States. We always say that the soviet system was worse than ours....of course it was, Czarist Russia was a Feudalistic state. No system, including capitalism, can bring a country from feudalism to a first world power within a century. The soviet union did not follow Karl Marx's plan of socialism coming to power, and Lenin knew this.

So the point of all of this is that Reagan didnt bring down the Soviets. They brought down themselves because they had to take extreme measures in order to try to compete with the Americans. That said, if the USSR had declared peace in the cold war, they may well have won. They should have realized that they couldn't compete with the richest country in the world.

Most interesting how a thread about Iraq and a questionable US foreign policy & military strategy morphs into dialogue about collapse of soviet union and Jimmy Carter lusting... as if we haven't.

(07-10-2009 09:32 PM)cyberdawg Wrote:  Most interesting how a thread about Iraq and a questionable US foreign policy & military strategy morphs into dialogue about collapse of soviet union and Jimmy Carter lusting... as if we haven't.

Right. Back on topic. I found the fact that the topic poster thinks that Arabs are just meant for killing each other highly discriminatory if not totally racist. Whos doing most of the killing in Iraq? 92,000 dead (http://www.iraqbodycount.org) and that's at the bottom of the estimates. Arabs lived in relative peace for centuries compared to christian Europe who was killing jews in pogroms and slaughtering Muslims by the thousands during the crusades. The world is older than ones lifetime. I love how conservatives freak out over Obama being elected president, because in another country our two parties would be one.