Not trying to knock the academics in the MAC, but I just don't understand the importance of academics in an athletic conference. I understand phrases like "peer group" and "bench marks" thrown around and I understand that it is all about perception. But being in a conference with Denver does nothing for the perception of my WKU degree. Likewise if WKU joined the Ivy League, I have to think it would be a step backwards in athletics.


I want good sports competition. Throwing academics into the conversation frankly smacks of elitism, and really isn't relevant in any meaningful way (i.e. rpi, good competition on the field or court or in $$$).

Mind you I am NOT saying that academics aren't important in general, only that I refuse to be put down by people that say "my school has a med school... my school has a law school" etc, etc. Unless you have a law degree or a med degree what difference does that make? Are you telling me a c student from harvard is a better person or even employee than an A student from WKU? Maybe, maybe not. I just resent this attitude of superiority because you are somehow grouped with superior people (by school of choice or by confernece). My education is my education and stands on its own merits, and I am not and refuse to be ashamed of it somehow.

Hope this doesn't come across as harsh or as sour grapes.

Soapbox dismount.

(06-19-2009 05:01 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  Not trying to knock the academics in the MAC, but I just don't understand the importance of academics in an athletic conference. I understand phrases like "peer group" and "bench marks" thrown around and I understand that it is all about perception. But being in a conference with Denver does nothing for the perception of my WKU degree. Likewise if WKU joined the Ivy League, I have to think it would be a step backwards in athletics.


I want good sports competition. Throwing academics into the conversation frankly smacks of elitism, and really isn't relevant in any meaningful way (i.e. rpi, good competition on the field or court or in $$$).

Mind you I am NOT saying that academics aren't important in general, only that I refuse to be put down by people that say "my school has a med school... my school has a law school" etc, etc. Unless you have a law degree or a med degree what difference does that make? Are you telling me a c student from harvard is a better person or even employee than an A student from WKU? Maybe, maybe not. I just resent this attitude of superiority because you are somehow grouped with superior people (by school of choice or by confernece). My education is my education and stands on its own merits, and I am not and refuse to be ashamed of it somehow.

Hope this doesn't come across as harsh or as sour grapes.

Soapbox dismount.

Good post !!!

Until the NCAA actually enforces attendance rules, nothing will happen.

I'm going to be honest guys. If C-USA were to split I think it would end up being C-USA West + Memphis and So Miss. I'm sorry, but I don't think C-USA would go fishing in the Sun Belt for schools. I think the sun belt has a lot of potential but, I just don't feel like there is enough of a reason to justify dropping what we have now.

If 8 schools from C-USA bolted, then UAB, ECU, UCF, and Marshall would be left without an automatic bid for basketball. Either all 4 would have to join a new conference, or split another conference by inviting 6 schools who have played in that conference together for at least five years. If Conference USA did the latter, it'd probably be the entire East Division of the Sun Belt or bust:

WKU
MTSU
UAB
Troy
USA
FAU
FIU
UCF
ECU
Marshall

The remainder of the Sun Belt would then probably add anyone upgrading to FBS from the state of Texas (Texas State, UTSA, Lamar, etc.) and encourage Denver, UNO, and UALR to stay around long enough to keep the automatic bid for basketball secure.

More likely, though, UAB, ECU, UCF, and Marshall would just be begging to get in somewhere.

fellas, we're looking at this all the wrong way! If (when) C-USA collapsed/split, then WE would be in the power seat. Why should Sun Belt schools accept offers to join reminants of the old Conference USA east teams when we can stand strong? The Sun Belt is one of the best geographically layed out conferences in the country. The SEC is better, but we are set up very well. C-USA is a very good mid-major conference, but they are very spread out. I figure eventually travel costs and losses to BCS conferences will weaken them to the point they need to look to us for new membership. But, why would we want to join the "leftovers?" When they fall apart we could take the two we want and move up to 12. Then the Sun Belt would be the top mid-major out there...assuming the Mountain West achieves BCS status.

We are the youngest football conference in the FBS. Our potential is very high, so let's stick together and be proud. Our time will come.

I wouldn't want to lose anyone we currently have on the roster. I'd like to add Southern Miss, but I don't want to lose a single school. We do very well for ourselves as is.

A lot of it would come down to bowl tie-ins, TV contracts, etc. It's just going to depend on where those are and how they're set up once the shoe drops. One of the things holding Conference USA together right now is C-USA's generous amount of bowl tie-ins; if the conference were to split, there's no guarantee that there will be anything for the new conference.

(06-19-2009 05:01 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  Not trying to knock the academics in the MAC, but I just don't understand the importance of academics in an athletic conference. I understand phrases like "peer group" and "bench marks" thrown around and I understand that it is all about perception. But being in a conference with Denver does nothing for the perception of my WKU degree. Likewise if WKU joined the Ivy League, I have to think it would be a step backwards in athletics.


I want good sports competition. Throwing academics into the conversation frankly smacks of elitism, and really isn't relevant in any meaningful way (i.e. rpi, good competition on the field or court or in $$$).

Mind you I am NOT saying that academics aren't important in general, only that I refuse to be put down by people that say "my school has a med school... my school has a law school" etc, etc. Unless you have a law degree or a med degree what difference does that make? Are you telling me a c student from harvard is a better person or even employee than an A student from WKU? Maybe, maybe not. I just resent this attitude of superiority because you are somehow grouped with superior people (by school of choice or by confernece). My education is my education and stands on its own merits, and I am not and refuse to be ashamed of it somehow.

Hope this doesn't come across as harsh or as sour grapes.

Soapbox dismount.

I understand your thoughts. I think many MAC schools like to look at academics and champion the fact that we are the most successful 1-A conference in graduating their student-athletes. Unlike other conferences, MAC schools very rarely take risks on students with academic issues. You won't see many JUCO's. I've been following NIU since 2003, during that time under Joe Novak we only brought in one JUCO recruit. We have brought in a few more under Jerry Kill since.

I'm not sure why WKU wasn't invited to the MAC. Some of the reasons listed were their academic profile, small market, lack of football facilities at the time, etc. I was told that for a new school to be added every MAC AD has to vote in favor of it.

well every school has their methods. TROY recruits heavily in the JUCO ranks, it has been a cornerstone of our success. As a small school in an area with several major FBS programs, it is difficult to recruit top-rated highschool prospects. We get some, but we do find it necessary to bring in playmakers from the JUCO leagues. We do NOT bring in kids who show they are unable to make it academically, which has enabled us to continue the practice.

But, to each his own. Some kids take longer to develop and go the Junior College route. I don't see why they should be punished for that. Those who just can't cut it end their career in JUCO, those who just needed a little more time, but prove to be capable get their second chance. Omar Haugabook is a great example of the latter. Now he is a legend among our fanbase. Great guy, about to head up north and play in the CFL.

(06-21-2009 05:41 AM)canewton Wrote:  I'm going to be honest guys. If C-USA were to split I think it would end up being C-USA West + Memphis and So Miss. I'm sorry, but I don't think C-USA would go fishing in the Sun Belt for schools. I think the sun belt has a lot of potential but, I just don't feel like there is enough of a reason to justify dropping what we have now.

If Memphis leave for reason other than Big East membership it will be to get away from SMU/Rice etc.

Why exactly do you think they want to get away from SMU/Rice so bad? Is it because you don't think they're very good at basketball? Because in comparison to the Sunbelt, Memphis is far better off in C-USA in terms of rpi:

C-USA:

9.......Memphis
52.....UAB
56.....Tulsa
82.....UTEP
91.....Houston
159...So Miss
163...UCF
170...Marshall
188...Tulane
221...Rice
227...East Carolina
271...SMU


Sunbelt:

41....WKU
93....UALR
130..North Texas
141..Troy
147..USA
168..MTSU
220..Florida International
224..Denver
241..Arkansas State
266..ULa-LA
281..New Orleans
285..ULa-Monroe
312..Florida Atlantic

So the Sunbelt has 3 teams ranked lower than SMU, and 6 lower than Rice. Atleast Rice and SMU have shown they're willing to dump millions into their programs.

http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/weeklyrpi/...Brpi1.html

First, everyone in C-USA gets an RPI boost from playing Memphis. They really lift the RPI.

Second, when SMU hosted Memphis, one of the elite teams in the nation, there were nearly 4,000 empty seats and 6,000 empty seats the year before when Rice hosted them.

Third, private schools and public schools have very different philosophies and ideas about athletics. As an example when 12 games for football was under consideration, 8 C-USA schools favored it and 4 were opposed. They have different viewpoints on how much over-signing is acceptable as well as how many, if any, partial qualifiers and non-qualifiers should be admitted.

I think we all realize Memphis would jump at a chance to join the Big East, but to suggest they would leave for any other conference is something of a joke. We can talk about how SMU and Rice have attendance problems, but there are plenty of Sunbelt programs with attendance problems. We can talk about how SMU and Rice won't admit the problematic students, but that's not the reason they're bad. There are plenty of programs that admit these problematic students that still have bad basketball teams.

If Memphis wants to join an all sports conference, they realistically have two choices: C-USA and Sunbelt. If you were Memphis which would you choose?

If someone has the time, I'd love to see an attendance comparison between the SBC and CUSA.

(06-23-2009 02:04 PM)canewton Wrote:  I think we all realize Memphis would jump at a chance to join the Big East, but to suggest they would leave for any other conference is something of a joke. We can talk about how SMU and Rice have attendance problems, but there are plenty of Sunbelt programs with attendance problems. We can talk about how SMU and Rice won't admit the problematic students, but that's not the reason they're bad. There are plenty of programs that admit these problematic students that still have bad basketball teams.

If Memphis wants to join an all sports conference, they realistically have two choices: C-USA and Sunbelt. If you were Memphis which would you choose?

No the joke is thinking its all rosey and that there are not hotel bar conversations among AD's looking to shuffle alignments to their advantage.

Only a fool would think the current 12 team arrangement of C-USA is the highest and best alignment that can be accomplished within the region.