As the northernmost member of C-USA, Marshall is a Rust Belt school trying to compete in a Sun Belt league - and I don't mean the conference of Troy, Arkansas State and Western Kentucky (where, by the way, the average AD still makes about $55,000 annually more than Marcum does).

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Marshall moving to CUSA was a bad move. They need to try and get back in the MAC.

Moving to C-USA should not have been a bad move, but the timing was terrible. If the Herd can get their act together and compete for the C-USA crown, then their finances will be in better shape in C-USA than they would be in the MAC even with the added travel costs.

I would advise against hiring Hamrick, though.

The current economy is going to start showing the flaws that really every conference other than the MWC and MAC suffer from.

The MWC is about as close to geographically compact as you can get out west. The MAC stretches a lot further now with Buffalo but they and to a lesser degree NIU are the outliers and the divisions minimize that impact.

The WAC has a big hole in the middle where the MWC schools used to be.

C-USA's western division plugs in nicely, relatively compact except for UTEP. The east is more far flung and that is a big part of why ECU's athletic director wants a fix, its why you've seen some complaining out Marshall way.

The Sun Belt likewise stretches out and is inefficient as well. A big difference in the Sun Belt and C-USA is in C-USA beyond the obvious look at a map issue is a problem of philosophy. You have the public/private difference and you have the problem that right now the biggest cash producer for the conference is Memphis, a school that actively opposed adding SMU/Rice/Tulsa and advocated strongly to not replace TCU.

You don't want a cash cow mad. BYU's frustration over the divisional format of WAC16 made it possible to divide that league. It took political tactics to keep UT/TAMU in the SWC in the winter of 1989/90 and when the dynamic changed they finally escaped. Louisville blew up the Metro's plan to add football because it didn't protect their interest enough (South Carolina and Florida State still would have left) and as a result Big East football was able to get off the ground. Until that moment, Va.Tech was locked into Metro football and Temple had pledged to join for football because they feared the Big East gaining an advantage over the Big 10.

If the economy continues to stagger, there are serious challenges facing us all. Oil is creeping up and rising fuel prices will likely dampen the speed of economy recovery while raising the cost of doing business in athletics. Upcoming television deals will see no increase or fall for many leagues due to the soft ad market.

It is not inconceivable that the nearly 40 year long trend of Division I growing and the 20 year long trend of I-A/FCS growing could be replaced not just with a period of stagnation but a period of schools having to give up athletics or find a less expensive way to participate in athletics. If it is a slow recovery the odds increase.

It is not unprecedented. From 1986 to 1995, five I-A programs dumped football. Three of those were triggered by a budget crisis in California. The state slashed funding to universities and to keep the doors open auxillary revenue (profits from housing, bookstore, vending machine, meeting room rentals, cafeteria) that had been used to fund athletics had to be diverted to academics to avoid cutting even more faculty and services.

Schools in a larger system will have to be especially wary. See UAB and Jimbo Fisher. See UNO being pushed to cut athletics by the LSU board.

Marshall is perfect example for why winning is not as important as other factors when considering a conference “upgrade”, in order to be competitive in a league (over the long term) you have to spend about the same as others in conference. Marshall budget is 3-4 million less then most in conference. Memphis and UCF lead the conference the past 2 years that I have #s with around 33-34 million each, with UCF actually spending more per sport since they have 16 sports to Memphis’s 19 sports.

Fanbase size, size of school , Market and Merchandise sells are actually more important then winning. Hopefully Marshall will find a AD who while more expensive can tap into more revenue streams bc in the end Marshall needs to spend more to be more competitive in CUSA. Marshall has a decent fanbase but they are not energized and hopefully a new AD will get new coach who will win more and will energize the fanbase thus increasing revenue. It comes down to the saying you have to spend money to make money, hopefully Marshall will turn it around but the MAC might be a better place for them bc the MAC schools have smaller budgets which might allow Marshall to be more competitive.

(06-07-2009 05:20 PM)Sideshow2313 Wrote:  It comes down to the saying you have to spend money to make money, hopefully Marshall will turn it around but the MAC might be a better place for them bc the MAC schools have smaller budgets which might allow Marshall to be more competitive.

Marshall wasn't even that competitive while they were in the MAC and their academics (one of the reasons why WKU was not invited) never fit the MAC profile.

Marshall was known for its football program. As we all know now, many of their wins in the MAC came while also cheating. Marshall was kicked out of the MAC the first time for multiple NCAA violations. Outside of softball and football, Marshall was pretty much at the bottom of the MAC in most sports.

The overall competitiveness of their athletic department is very weak. Football was their claim to fame and now they don't even have that.

First 4 years in the MAC: 43-9
Next 4: 36-14
Next 4 (C-USA): 16-31

Of course the last two years of the MAC era they were 14-10. They had a great six year in the MAC and started falling apart.

(06-07-2009 09:06 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  First 4 years in the MAC: 43-9
Next 4: 36-14
Next 4 (C-USA): 16-31

Of course the last two years of the MAC era they were 14-10. They had a great six year in the MAC and started falling apart.

Yeah, but as we all know now Marshall was cheating during the 90's.

Now look at their records in the MAC for all other sports....not good, at all.

how were they cheating?

Didn't they go downhill after Moss left?

(06-08-2009 07:36 AM)Trojan Delta Chi Wrote:  how were they cheating?

Where have you been?

Marshall booster gives non-qualifiers jobs -- http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/10939317

Academic fraud -- http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/loc...xtras.html

I never heard about it either.

(06-08-2009 04:28 PM)Fanof49ASU Wrote:  I never heard about it either.

Fair enough, maybe us MAC fans know this all too well because we would all have to deal with the Marshall gloating about how they were so much better than the MAC. Then we all found out they were cheating...again! Marshall would also take a lot of guys with academic and character issues (someone above mentioned Randy Moss).

I thought their downward spiral started after Troy beat'em (D Wares coming out party) there.

(06-08-2009 05:17 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(06-08-2009 04:28 PM)Fanof49ASU Wrote:  I never heard about it either.

Fair enough, maybe us MAC fans know this all too well because we would all have to deal with the Marshall gloating about how they were so much better than the MAC. Then we all found out they were cheating...again! Marshall would also take a lot of guys with academic and character issues (someone above mentioned Randy Moss).

I wonder, did Marshall fans talk back then about how they 'owned' the MAC?

(06-09-2009 01:46 PM)SpaceRaider Wrote:  I wonder, did Marshall fans talk back then about how they 'owned' the MAC?

(06-09-2009 01:46 PM)SpaceRaider Wrote:  

(06-08-2009 05:17 PM)epasnoopy Wrote:  

(06-08-2009 04:28 PM)Fanof49ASU Wrote:  I never heard about it either.

Fair enough, maybe us MAC fans know this all too well because we would all have to deal with the Marshall gloating about how they were so much better than the MAC. Then we all found out they were cheating...again! Marshall would also take a lot of guys with academic and character issues (someone above mentioned Randy Moss).

I wonder, did Marshall fans talk back then about how they 'owned' the MAC?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq4xacqL8N8