Quote:Palestinians must abandon violence. Resistance through violence and killing is wrong and it does not succeed. For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation. But it was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America’s founding. This same story can be told by people from South Africa to South Asia; from Eastern Europe to Indonesia.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/06/04...-in-cairo/

the modern Narrative is that Israel is doing to the Palestinians what the Nazi's did to the Jews.

it takes an amazing amount of propoganda to pull that off, but they've been successful with it.

I just shake my head in disbelief.

(06-04-2009 01:27 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I just shake my head in disbelief.

Yeah, I do that too when Obama speaks.

I'm not bothered by that quote. There are limits to every analogy. If Obama's listeners step over the line of reason, that's on them, not him.

We've all been told to respect the approach of Ghandi, MLK, or perhaps Tetramachus. Obama invokes nothing more.

He's trying to draw a Moral Equivalence, for whatever reason, between Hamas/Palestine and Slavery in USA and South Africa. Thus, the Palestinians are Oppressed people, and their Oppressor must be Israel.

According to the new conventional wisdom, Israel has become tyrannical, forgetting their own experience with the Nazis, and they have become what they once fled from. In this new narrative, the Palestinian people have been provoked into choosing a leadership that is on the fighting, radical end of things, but this is understandable, root causes(err. "Blowback" or whatever)...

Not long ago though for Hamas was outlining their demands. What is a main thing they want? border crossings into Israel opened so that inhabitants of Gaza can get into Israel freely. ??? How does that fit with the narrative? When Jews escaped from the Nazis, did they form enclaves outside the Nazi borders, demanding to be let back in? Of course not, because the Nazi's really were Nazi's, and Israel really isn't what the modern Narrative suggest.

In germany there was real, true tyranny, not just agitprop tyranny projected for the cameras by Hezzbollywood and the International Left and other moral equivalentist.

(06-04-2009 01:33 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(06-04-2009 01:27 PM)RobertN Wrote:  I just shake my head in disbelief.

Yeah, I do that too when Obama speaks.

I used to do that every time GWB spoke.

(06-04-2009 01:44 PM)GGniner Wrote:  He's trying to draw a Moral Equivalence, for whatever reason, between Hamas/Palestine and Slavery in USA and South Africa. Thus, the Palestinians are Oppressed people, and their Oppressor must be Israel.

That's one interpretation.

Quote:According to the new conventional wisdom, Israel has become tyrannical, forgetting their own experience with the Nazis, and they have become what they once fled from. In this new narrative, the Palestinian people have been provoked into choosing a leadership that is on the fighting, radical end of things, but this is understandable, root causes(err. "Blowback" or whatever)...

Not long ago though for Hamas was outlining their demands. What is a main thing they want? border crossings into Israel opened so that inhabitants of Gaza can get into Israel freely. ??? How does that fit with the narrative? When Jews escaped from the Nazis, did they form enclaves outside the Nazi borders, demanding to be let back in? Of course not, because the Nazi's really were Nazi's, and Israel really isn't what the modern Narrative suggest.

In germany there was real, true tyranny, not just agitprop tyranny projected for the cameras by Hezzbollywood and the International Left and other moral equivalentist.

Agreed, which is why such a comparison is absurd. However, Obama championing peaceful resistance requires no such comparison. He simply said, "peaceful methods work better."

(06-04-2009 01:37 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  I'm not bothered by that quote. There are limits to every analogy. If Obama's listeners step over the line of reason, that's on them, not him.

We've all been told to respect the approach of Ghandi, MLK, or perhaps Tetramachus. Obama invokes nothing more.

I agree.

While it wouldn't shock me to find out Obama believes the extreme you can't take it away from that quote.

it was carefully worded, but I think that is how the anti-Israel haters will interpret it. Probably on purpose, as that is what they want to hear.

The irony in this is that Mein Kampf is a top seller in Palestine to this day, Saddam hussein looked to Hitler as his political idol and was paying Hamas Suicide bombers $20k openly to their families. Hamas and Hezzbollah and other like minded groups associated with this mess, are ideologically opposed to peaceful protest.

(06-04-2009 01:21 PM)GGniner Wrote:  the modern Narrative is that Israel is doing to the Palestinians what the Nazi's did to the Jews.

it takes an amazing amount of propoganda to pull that off, but they've been successful with it.

I've never heard that Narrative. Where have you seen that.

Just off the cuff, I thought that comparison could not be made because aren't the Muslims Holocaust deniers.

(06-04-2009 02:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(06-04-2009 01:21 PM)GGniner Wrote:  the modern Narrative is that Israel is doing to the Palestinians what the Nazi's did to the Jews.

it takes an amazing amount of propoganda to pull that off, but they've been successful with it.

I've never heard that Narrative. Where have you seen that.

Just off the cuff, I thought that comparison could not be made because aren't the Muslims Holocaust deniers.

the Media, here, Europe and Al-Jazeera and in Academia. Most don't flat out call Israel the new 'nazi's' they just imply it, others say what they mean.

Rueters and other Media were very complicit in doing this during the Hezzbollah war and the recent Hamas conflict in how they report things and not report in many cases. They went as far as Photoshopping pics to make Israel look bad and evil, reporting things like Israel blowing up a school or something without telling you that Hamas of Hezzbollah was firing at Israel from that location to provoke that response all for Propoganda purposes.

There was also this part of the speech.

Quote:Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust. ….Six million Jews were killed – more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today.….

On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people – Muslims and Christians – have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than sixty years they have endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations – large and small – that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: the situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable.

I took it as drop the violence against innocents. Quit blowing people up with bombs strapped to your body. Take the MLK route. Peaceful protests.

.

Maybe Obamagog could put in a good word with the Murderous Kenyan Government that his FAMILY still runs and get the Palestinians some land inside Kenya for a Homeland since they are still searching for one.

I mean if you are going to shoot off your mouth about the Civil Rights Movement and Slavery in the U.S. when you were living your life in OTHER COUNTRIES as a Muslim, then Put Up or STFU.

Move all their shoe tossing, rock throwing, rocket launching asses to Kenya there Barry .... and then you won't have to apologize for the United States not kissing Hamas and Hezbollah's Ass every 5 seconds while you leave Israel out to dry.

This is Jimmy Carters HALF-BLACK Twin Brother and I mean a perfect pimple from Jimmy's sorry old ass too.

Al Gore invented the Internet - - Barack Hussein Obama Won the Civil Rights Movement Single Handedly ..... it just doesn't get any better than that folks !!!!!

.

(06-04-2009 02:35 PM)GGniner Wrote:  There was also this part of the speech.

Quote:Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust. ….Six million Jews were killed – more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today.….

On the other hand, it is also undeniable that the Palestinian people – Muslims and Christians – have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than sixty years they have endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations – large and small – that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: the situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable.

That can be interpreted in a variety of ways, including a call out to both sides saying I acknowledge your respective histories.

If I were to offer a criticism, I'd say that Obama is telling everyone "just get along." He's offered nothing of substance in terms of a plan.

I know it's hard to believe that Obama could be w/o substance, that he could shirk off the entire planning and negotiating processes, but I'm calling it as I see it!

SOAF - almost forgot, and shouldn't have, Jimmy Carter.

that fool wrote a book with the Title comparing the situation to Apartheid.

(06-04-2009 03:42 PM)GGniner Wrote:  SOAF - almost forgot, and shouldn't have, Jimmy Carter.

that fool wrote a book with the Title comparing the situation to Apartheid.

Now that you mention it, it is right out of the Jimmy Carter Book. What was it called. hmmmmm. "How to be a monumental failure, and wrong about everything, and totally irrelevant." I could go on but .....

The ironic--and sad--thing about the Carter connection is that Jimmy was the one guy who got handed the opportunity to solve the situation on a silver platter, and blew it.

Henry Kissinger had pushed Israel and Egypt to the brink of peaceful agreement under the Ford administration. It took Carter three years to close the deal. At the time, Israel had possession of the Sinai, which it returned to Egypt after Camp David. That would have been the perfect time for Carter to carve out an area much bigger and more habitable than Gaza to give to the Palestinians. If he'd been any good, he could have driven that home. And things would be vastly different today.

But pretty much like everything else he touched, Carter blew it.

Oh well, the country survived Carter, maybe we can survive Obama. But we were in a lot better shape when Carter came to power than we are today.

The comparison of the Holocaust to the suffering of the Palestinians dislocation is not going to ring true to a lot of Israeli. The Jewish people have never recovered from the murder of 6 million Jews.