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Obama compares Palestine's situation to slavery in U.S. and apartheid in S. Africa
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THE NC Herd Fan Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Obama compares Palestine's situation to slavery in U.S. and apartheid in S. Afric
(06-04-2009 01:17 PM)BlazerFan11 Wrote:  
Quote:Palestinians must abandon violence. Resistance through violence and killing is wrong and it does not succeed. For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation. But it was not violence that won full and equal rights. It was a peaceful and determined insistence upon the ideals at the center of America’s founding. This same story can be told by people from South Africa to South Asia; from Eastern Europe to Indonesia.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/06/04...-in-cairo/

Lot's of LIES or INACCURACIES in his speech.

Quote:For centuries, black people in America suffered the lash of the whip as slaves and the humiliation of segregation.

The U.S. became a nation in 1776 slavery was abolished in 1865 not quiet a century racial segregation ended in 1954 so not even two centuries, yet he made it sound like a millennium.

Same on him for once again doing his best to make the U.S. look evil.

He said God intended for Christians, Muslims and Jews to live in Peace in Israel, not exactly true according to the Bible.
06-04-2009 06:13 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Obama compares Palestine's situation to slavery in U.S. and apartheid in S. Africa
(06-04-2009 05:35 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The ironic--and sad--thing about the Carter connection is that Jimmy was the one guy who got handed the opportunity to solve the situation on a silver platter, and blew it.

Henry Kissinger had pushed Israel and Egypt to the brink of peaceful agreement under the Ford administration. It took Carter three years to close the deal. At the time, Israel had possession of the Sinai, which it returned to Egypt after Camp David. That would have been the perfect time for Carter to carve out an area much bigger and more habitable than Gaza to give to the Palestinians. If he'd been any good, he could have driven that home. And things would be vastly different today.

But pretty much like everything else he touched, Carter blew it.

Oh well, the country survived Carter, maybe we can survive Obama. But we were in a lot better shape when Carter came to power than we are today.

How do you know Carter could have done that then? Were you in the meeting rooms with them? Israel wouldn't have gone for it any more then, than they do now. We would have had to impose a settlement on the Israelis for that to happen. And we could still do that now.

Some people just don't want to admit that the Palestinians have valid grievances, because a percentage of them have turned to terrorism. And the thing is, when they're peaceful and try to negotiate, they don't get anything out of it (because Israel has no reason to give up anything), so at some point, they turn violent to try to get their way using that method. They have a non-viable territory to live in. It's a recipe for violence.
06-04-2009 06:21 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Obama compares Palestine's situation to slavery in U.S. and apartheid in S. Africa
It's pretty well documented that Carter didn't even try to address the Palestinian situation.
And I don't think anyone would argue that this was not the point where the US had the maximum leverage it will ever have.

Actually, the solution I have in mind wouldn't have required much--if any--concessions from Israel.
The logical place to carve out a Palestinian homeland would have been the Sinai, and that would have taken concessions from Egypt.
Since Egypt was the one getting territory back, and since we got their agreement by stacking money on the table until they said "yes," I think it was clearly doable.
Nobody will know for sure, and you're entitled to a different opinion, but I think you're ignoring what we do know if you go there.

This is what Americans don't understand about the Israeli-Palestinian problem.
It's the elephant in the room that suits nobody's political agenda.
There is no workable solution based on dividing up the current footprint of Israel.
Give the Palestinians enough room to live, and Israel is left too skinny to be able to defend itself.
Give Israel secure borders, and there's not enough room left for the Palestinians to live.
The only solutions without bringing additional territory into the mix are for the Israelis to kill all the Palestinians, or for the Palestinians to kill all the Jews, with the winner taking over the entire area.
I don't think either of those appeals.

The Sinai solution appeals to me because 1) it is consistent with the ancestral homeland of the true Palestinians (those descended from the Biblical Philistines, so there is some logic behind it, and 2) for enough money, I think you couldget Egypt to do it.
How much money? More than it would have taken in 1979.
I think one reason that Carter has pushed the Palestinian cause as much as he has is some degree of guilt about what he didn't do at Camp David.

The Palestinians are terrorists because they are desperate.
Give them enough land that they have a chance to survive, and Israel becomes desperate.
And Israel has nukes, lots of them, and a much more aggressive position about using them than we do.

Te plight of the Palestinians is lamentable and they deserve better.
Being the pariahs of the Arab world doesn't help.
If that were not the case, perhaps the Arab world would have solved things by now.
But expecting Israel to make enough concessions unilaterally to solve this thing is simply unrealistic.
(This post was last modified: 06-04-2009 07:47 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
06-04-2009 07:44 PM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Obama compares Palestine's situation to slavery in U.S. and apartheid in S. Africa
(06-04-2009 07:44 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  It's pretty well documented that Carter didn't even try to address the Palestinian situation.
And I don't think anyone would argue that this was not the point where the US had the maximum leverage it will ever have.

Actually, the solution I have in mind wouldn't have required much--if any--concessions from Israel.
The logical place to carve out a Palestinian homeland would have been the Sinai, and that would have taken concessions from Egypt.
Since Egypt was the one getting territory back, and since we got their agreement by stacking money on the table until they said "yes," I think it was clearly doable.
Nobody will know for sure, and you're entitled to a different opinion, but I think you're ignoring what we do know if you go there.

This is what Americans don't understand about the Israeli-Palestinian problem.
It's the elephant in the room that suits nobody's political agenda.
There is no workable solution based on dividing up the current footprint of Israel.
Give the Palestinians enough room to live, and Israel is left too skinny to be able to defend itself.
Give Israel secure borders, and there's not enough room left for the Palestinians to live.
The only solutions without bringing additional territory into the mix are for the Israelis to kill all the Palestinians, or for the Palestinians to kill all the Jews, with the winner taking over the entire area.
I don't think either of those appeals.

The Sinai solution appeals to me because 1) it is consistent with the ancestral homeland of the true Palestinians (those descended from the Biblical Philistines, so there is some logic behind it, and 2) for enough money, I think you couldget Egypt to do it.
How much money? More than it would have taken in 1979.
I think one reason that Carter has pushed the Palestinian cause as much as he has is some degree of guilt about what he didn't do at Camp David.

The Palestinians are terrorists because they are desperate.
Give them enough land that they have a chance to survive, and Israel becomes desperate.
And Israel has nukes, lots of them, and a much more aggressive position about using them than we do.

Te plight of the Palestinians is lamentable and they deserve better.
Being the pariahs of the Arab world doesn't help.
If that were not the case, perhaps the Arab world would have solved things by now.
But expecting Israel to make enough concessions unilaterally to solve this thing is simply unrealistic.

The only thing you need to know about the current conflict is one thing. The Arab states need to acknowledge Israel's right to exist. UN Resolution 242. There can be no peace without that. PERIOD
06-04-2009 08:44 PM
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smn1256 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Obama compares Palestine's situation to slavery in U.S. and apartheid in S. Africa
As Obama himself would say, this trip is above his pay grade. He's only been monarch for a few months and he's sticking his nose into something that no one before him has fixed and probably never will be fixed for decades to come. Before he tackled something of this magnitude he should have waited a year or two until he washed off all the noob-green paint that's on him.
06-04-2009 09:08 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Obama compares Palestine's situation to slavery in U.S. and apartheid in S. Africa
(06-04-2009 08:44 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  The only thing you need to know about the current conflict is one thing. The Arab states need to acknowledge Israel's right to exist. UN Resolution 242. There can be no peace without that. PERIOD

Actually, I think that's one of three things without which there can be no peace:
1. Solution to the Palestinian problem (you've read my idea).
2. Solution to the Jerusalem problem (I like Tom Clancy's).
3. Recognition of Israel's right to exist (you are going to have to put something on the table for the Arabs; the right answers to 1 and 2 might be enough to get that done)
06-04-2009 09:16 PM
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Post: #27
RE: Obama compares Palestine's situation to slavery in U.S. and apartheid in S. Africa
Obama's message to Israel:

"**** you Jews! Allahu Akbar!".
06-04-2009 09:20 PM
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Post: #28
RE: Obama compares Palestine's situation to slavery in U.S. and apartheid in S. Africa
(06-04-2009 07:44 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  It's pretty well documented that Carter didn't even try to address the Palestinian situation.
And I don't think anyone would argue that this was not the point where the US had the maximum leverage it will ever have.

Actually, the solution I have in mind wouldn't have required much--if any--concessions from Israel.
The logical place to carve out a Palestinian homeland would have been the Sinai, and that would have taken concessions from Egypt.
Since Egypt was the one getting territory back, and since we got their agreement by stacking money on the table until they said "yes," I think it was clearly doable.
Nobody will know for sure, and you're entitled to a different opinion, but I think you're ignoring what we do know if you go there.

This is what Americans don't understand about the Israeli-Palestinian problem.
It's the elephant in the room that suits nobody's political agenda.
There is no workable solution based on dividing up the current footprint of Israel.
Give the Palestinians enough room to live, and Israel is left too skinny to be able to defend itself.
Give Israel secure borders, and there's not enough room left for the Palestinians to live.
The only solutions without bringing additional territory into the mix are for the Israelis to kill all the Palestinians, or for the Palestinians to kill all the Jews, with the winner taking over the entire area.
I don't think either of those appeals.

The Sinai solution appeals to me because 1) it is consistent with the ancestral homeland of the true Palestinians (those descended from the Biblical Philistines, so there is some logic behind it, and 2) for enough money, I think you couldget Egypt to do it.
How much money? More than it would have taken in 1979.
I think one reason that Carter has pushed the Palestinian cause as much as he has is some degree of guilt about what he didn't do at Camp David.

The Palestinians are terrorists because they are desperate.
Give them enough land that they have a chance to survive, and Israel becomes desperate.
And Israel has nukes, lots of them, and a much more aggressive position about using them than we do.

Te plight of the Palestinians is lamentable and they deserve better.
Being the pariahs of the Arab world doesn't help.
If that were not the case, perhaps the Arab world would have solved things by now.
But expecting Israel to make enough concessions unilaterally to solve this thing is simply unrealistic.

You are correct, but the Palestinians want East Jerusalem.

Unless that is a $750 billion bargining chip.
06-05-2009 06:51 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Obama compares Palestine's situation to slavery in U.S. and apartheid in S. Afric
(06-05-2009 06:51 AM)WMD Owl Wrote:  
(06-04-2009 07:44 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  It's pretty well documented that Carter didn't even try to address the Palestinian situation.
And I don't think anyone would argue that this was not the point where the US had the maximum leverage it will ever have.

Actually, the solution I have in mind wouldn't have required much--if any--concessions from Israel.
The logical place to carve out a Palestinian homeland would have been the Sinai, and that would have taken concessions from Egypt.
Since Egypt was the one getting territory back, and since we got their agreement by stacking money on the table until they said "yes," I think it was clearly doable.
Nobody will know for sure, and you're entitled to a different opinion, but I think you're ignoring what we do know if you go there.

This is what Americans don't understand about the Israeli-Palestinian problem.
It's the elephant in the room that suits nobody's political agenda.
There is no workable solution based on dividing up the current footprint of Israel.
Give the Palestinians enough room to live, and Israel is left too skinny to be able to defend itself.
Give Israel secure borders, and there's not enough room left for the Palestinians to live.
The only solutions without bringing additional territory into the mix are for the Israelis to kill all the Palestinians, or for the Palestinians to kill all the Jews, with the winner taking over the entire area.
I don't think either of those appeals.

The Sinai solution appeals to me because 1) it is consistent with the ancestral homeland of the true Palestinians (those descended from the Biblical Philistines, so there is some logic behind it, and 2) for enough money, I think you couldget Egypt to do it.
How much money? More than it would have taken in 1979.
I think one reason that Carter has pushed the Palestinian cause as much as he has is some degree of guilt about what he didn't do at Camp David.

The Palestinians are terrorists because they are desperate.
Give them enough land that they have a chance to survive, and Israel becomes desperate.
And Israel has nukes, lots of them, and a much more aggressive position about using them than we do.

Te plight of the Palestinians is lamentable and they deserve better.
Being the pariahs of the Arab world doesn't help.
If that were not the case, perhaps the Arab world would have solved things by now.
But expecting Israel to make enough concessions unilaterally to solve this thing is simply unrealistic.

You are correct, but the Palestinians want East Jerusalem.

Unless that is a $750 billion bargining chip.

I think that's the right price range. And it's cheap at that.
06-05-2009 07:26 AM
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Post: #30
RE: Obama compares Palestine's situation to slavery in U.S. and apartheid in S. Africa
the Palestinian situtation has turned into something that is alot more about Middle East Despot Politics than anything else. To stay in power, they need a boogey man to blame their people's problems on to keep a hold on power. That would be Israel(the jews) and the USA of course.


Carter is the definition of an Useful Idiot
06-05-2009 08:16 AM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Obama compares Palestine's situation to slavery in U.S. and apartheid in S. Africa
Israel will NEVER give up Jerusalem or any part of it. The Palestinians belong in Syria, Jordan or Lebanon. They tried to take over those states at one time or another and were exiled from there. They don't want the Palestinians any more than Israel.
06-05-2009 08:31 AM
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