If anyone cares. Look at the DU link Reb posted. Totally different from the WND rhetoric. That WND site needs to police itself or should be shut down. Cultivating hate.

Murderers of abortion doctors are outnumbered by the people murdered by abortion doctors and Muzzie radicals. You say 6 during Clinton, now add another one, 7. Shall I bring up the numbers of partial-birth abortions? People killed by Muzzie radicals? There is no comparison.

(06-03-2009 09:06 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  If anyone cares. Look at the DU link Reb posted. Totally different from the WND rhetoric. That WND site needs to police itself or should be shut down. Cultivating hate.

Needs to be shut down? Wow, you're quite the fuckin' Nazi, aren't ya?

not the same, though no good excuse like as I said, the killing of Tiller Vigilante style is wrong.

If the country would outlaw abortion and then give the Tiller's the Death Penalty it would be justified and ok.


Tiller killed 10's of Thousands, many Partial-Birth abortions. Innoncent Human Life

the US Soldiers were not guilty of anything.....and were taken down for political and religious reasons by an Ideology that wants to topple the United States and institute Sharia Law.

While Tiller should not have been murdered, there is a distinction as far as the direction of the Moral Compasses here.

Read it..... It's the definition of cultivating hate. Did you even bother to look or read the quotes I have up there? I got to page 3 out of 326 posts. Wake UP!!! Nothing on the DU compares. Maybe you like living in a country that celebrates YES CELEBRATES the murder of a guy in church. Have you ever thought for a moment that Dr. Tiller brought relief to families. He didn't take cases on a whim. There are plenty of families out there with fetuses that are not viable. Educate yourself. People don't abort in the third trimester on a whim. The majority of the time there is a medical reason for it. Risking the life of a woman becuase she doesn't carry a viable fetus for bible thumpers sake doesn't make sense. Dr. Tiller paid the ultimate price. Many on WND celebrate it. Look at the posts. Find anything comparable on YOUR DU link. No. Only remorse for the two fallen soldiers. Apples and Oranges

I'm not the biggest anti-abortion guy out there, I really don't have a problem with it so long as there isn't a heartbeat. However, partial-birth abortion is wrong as HELL and anyone who supports it is a lowlife piece of ****. It boggles my f'n mind how the same GDamn idiots who support it, OPPOSE the damn death penalty for murderers.

Also, when in the HELL did this become a religious argument, libs? How about right and f'n wrong? I thought you idiots said religion isn't the only way to obtain morals?

No Nazi is our boy Vox....................

(06-03-2009 09:17 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Read it..... It's the definition of cultivating hate. Did you even bother to look or read the quotes I have up there? I got to page 3 out of 326 posts. Wake UP!!! Nothing on the DU compares. Maybe you like living in a country that celebrates YES CELEBRATES the murder of a guy in church. Have you ever thought for a moment that Dr. Tiller brought relief to families. He didn't take cases on a whim. There are plenty of families out there with fetuses that are not viable. Educate yourself. People don't abort in the third trimester on a whim. The majority of the time there is a medical reason for it. Risking the life of a woman becuase she doesn't carry a viable fetus for bible thumpers sake doesn't make sense. Dr. Tiller paid the ultimate price. Many on WND celebrate it. Look at the posts. Find anything comparable on YOUR DU link. No. Only remorse for the two fallen soldiers. Apples and Oranges

The guy should be prosecuted, but I won't shed one f'n tear over that piece of trash.

As I've stated, Tiller shouldn't have been killed, HOWEVER I understand completely and sympathize with those that support it, etc. It represents an Act of True Justice, the lack of True Justice is also why so many Vigilante movies have been coming out of Hollywood in recent years.

and now to direct this to what I will say is related topic:
Mafia Movies my favorite.

Why have these been so popular, and especially in the last 30 plus years since issues like Roe for example?
Goodnight, America: What loving the mob really means

Quote:But, as Will pointed out yesterday in his interview with David Chase, the creator of The Sopranos, there's a counter-argument. We find something in mob movies that we are sorely lacking in our culture and our art: a strict moral code. Or in Tony Soprano's case, a strict immoral code, but a code nonetheless.

"Could it be," asked Will, "that part of the appeal of this show is that Tony Soprano, terrible husband, loutish father, bad citizen…in some sense insists on the distinction between right and wrong?"

Of course, the distinction of "right and wrong" adhered to in The Sopranos is not our distinction, but at least it's a distinction, something sorely missing almost everywhere else in elite culture. Rats and snitches get theirs. In the world of The Sopranos there's a difference between having a reason and having an excuse. Tony always says "there have to be consequences" when people deviate from the code. In the relativistic swamp of American life, that distinction is at best mightily blurred.

This surely explains part of The Sopranos popularity. Americans have always liked movies and books about men who play by their own rules. Westerns, cop movies, and virtually every mob movie can trace much of their appeal to our fascination with the inflexibility of codes of honor, even when we disagree with the first principles of that code. Sure, there's something a bit disturbing about the fact that Americans — particularly chattering-class liberals who live by the New York Times's "Arts and Leisure" section — need to satisfy their craving for moral discipline by watching a television series about murderers.

But whadya gonna do? It's damn good TV.

Quote:THE GODFATHER AND AMERICA
The American fascination with Tony Soprano or Don Corleone is often explained by saying something like, "America loves a rogue." But that's simplistic in the extreme. There's a lot more going on here than the Bada Bing at the Bada Bing club.

About five years ago, Paul Rahe, the author of the acclaimed Republics Ancient and Modern: Classical Republicanism and the American Revolution, penned an essay, "Don Vito Corleone, Friendship, and the American Regime." With the possible exception of Paul Cantor's essay on The Simpsons, it's the best essay on the significance of a movie or TV show I've ever read.

In it, he dissects the opening scene of The Godfather where the undertaker, Amerigo Bonasera, asks the Godfather for justice (I am borrowing heavily from Rahe's synopsis).

"I raised my daughter in the American fashion," Bonsera says in the Mario Puzo book that inspired the movie. "I believe in America. America has made my fortune. I gave my daughter her freedom and yet taught her never to dishonor her family."

Alas, the daughter found an American boyfriend who tried to rape her. "She resisted. She kept her honor." The boyfriend and another boy beat her viciously in retaliation.

"I went to the police like a good American," he says. But, despite being arrested and convicted, the boys receive a suspended sentence from a lenient judge. "They went free that very day. I stood in the courtroom like a fool and those bastards smiled at me. And then I said to my wife: 'We must go to Don Corleone for justice."

Then, Corleone breaks the silence to ask, "Why did you go to the police? Why didn't you come to me at the beginning of this affair?"

Bonasera dodges the question and asks, "What do you want of me? Tell me what you wish. But do what I beg you to do." He whispers in the Don's ear that he wants the boys killed.

The Don says, "You are being carried away." Then the undertaker says, flatly, "I will pay you anything you ask."

This infuriates Don Corleone. In a voice Puzo describes as "cold death," the Don answers:

"We have known each other many years, you and I, but until this day you never came to me for counsel or help. I can't remember the last time you invited me to your house for coffee though my wife is godmother to your only child. Let us be frank. You spurned my friendship. You feared to be in my debt."

The undertaker mutters, "I didn't want to get into trouble." Don Corleone interrupts him with a wave of his hand.

"No, don't speak. You found America a paradise. You had a good trade, you made a good living, you thought the world a harmless place where you could take your pleasures as you willed. You never armed yourself with true friends. After all, the police guarded you, there were courts of law, you and yours could come to no harm. You did not need Don Corleone. Very well. My feelings were wounded but I am not the sort of person who thrusts his friendship on those who do not value it — on those who think me of little account."

The Don smiles derisively, "Now you come to me and ask, 'Don Corleone give me justice.' And you do not ask with respect. You do not offer me friendship. You come into my home on the bridal day of my daughter and you ask me to do murder and you say" — here the Don's voice becomes scornful mimicry — "'I will pay you anything.' No, No, I am not offended, but what have I ever done to make you treat me so disrespectfully?"

The undertaker responds, "America has been good to me. I wanted to be a good citizen. I wanted my child to be American."

The Don applauds sardonically and says: "Well spoken. Very fine. Then you have nothing to complain about. The judge has ruled. America has ruled. Bring your daughter flowers and a box of candy when you go visit her in the hospital. That will comfort her. Be content. After all, this is not a serious affair, the boys were young, high-spirited, and one of them is the son of a powerful politician…so give me your word that you will put aside this madness. It is not American. Forgive. Forget. Life is full of misfortunes."

The two argue about the nature of justice versus vengeance. And once again the undertaker asks, "How much shall I pay you?"

The Don, furious, turns his back on Bonasera and asks, "Why do you fear to give your first allegiance to me?" He lectures the undertaker about the delays and corruption of the American system.

"You go to the law courts and wait for months. You spend money on lawyers who know full well you are to be made a fool of. You accept judgement from a judge who sells himself like the worst whore in the streets …[But] if you had come to me for justice those scum who ruined your daughter would be weeping bitter tears this day. If by some misfortune an honest man like yourself made enemies, they would become my enemies…and then, believe me, they would fear you."

The undertaker finally understands and pleads: "Be my friend. I accept."

This is the very first scene in the movie (though the dialogue is truncated for the big screen) for a reason. Francis Ford Coppola and Puzo understood the need to show the alternate moral universe of the mafia. Rahe points out that it's no coincidence that the undertaker's name is Amerigo Bonasera, which translates into "Goodnight America."
.........

Of course, people aren't rejecting America when they watch The Sopranos or The Godfather. But who can argue that a certain degree of the mob's appeal, particularly in the 1990s, stems from a certain alienation not just with the relativism of American popular culture, but with the very definition of justice in America today?

Couldn't say it any better

HOWEVER I understand completely and sympathize with those that support it.....................

so you completely understand and sympathize with MURDERING A DR. IN CHURCH!!!!!! Have you gone mad..... Jeez Louise GG.

I said I understand their thought process, they are seeking true Justice.

Going Vigilante because the Civil Magistrate isn't doing its job is wrong and stupid, but the point is I understand the temptation.

There is no justification for the Jihadist nutballs, only the postmodern Illogical world of relativism can justify it and in the process expose the myth of neutrality.

A quick question for the room. What if the mother's life was in danger and she was carrying a fetus with a genetic disorder? Who has blood on their hands???? Do YOU at least comprhend that side of the argument. You do realize Dr. Tiller saw that kind of patient. I'm not saying that was his only clientele, but he DID bring relief to families in horrible circumstances. No one.... I mean no one goes out, puts on their best dress for an abortion. It's a difficult difficult decision that THE G DAMN GOVT. has no business in. You live your *** **** life how you see fit. Leave me the hell out of it.

Machiavelli, You totally misrepresented how the people over at WND feel about Tiller's death. Your biased liberalism is a sight to behold. Anything to justify your thinking. And on the left, they are still not talking about William Long

A VIEW TO A KILL
What's your reaction to the murder of abortionist George Tiller?

http://forums.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=4...wResults=1

What's your reaction to the murder of abortionist George Tiller? (5296 votes)

Murdering any human being is wrong, period 26% (1357)

It's just a tragic end to a tragic epic 23% (1233)

Bad news for the pro-life movement because the government will crack down more than ever before 13% (714)

I can understand how some might justify the murder, but it's still wrong 12% (661)

I cheer the fact that this serial baby killer has been brought to justice 12% (623)

A horrific crime proving some pro-lifers are indeed terrorists 3% (147)

The shooting suspect is a righteous hero for the unborn 3% (147)

Other 3% (139)

Sorting out this murder is one of the hardest moral dilemmas 3% (138)

Tiller's killer deserves to be killed himself 1% (52)

The women who went to Tiller did so voluntarily, so he's not 100% at fault for his actions 1% (46)

Good news for the pro-life movement because the murder sends a signal to other abortionists 1% (39)

You know three or four years ago I could sympathize with some of the pro-lifers. I would of thrown the pro-choicers off the wagon to get my guy elected. I remember posting that. I was hoping Bush would appoint the pro lifers to the bench get Roe vs. Wade overturned so the politics could be played in my favor. There were alot of pro choice Repubs that enjoyed the benefits of the political calculus. ( ******** Redacted it was a little out there*************)

(06-03-2009 09:42 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  carrying a fetus with a genetic disorder? Who has blood on their hands????

she's carrying a Human Life, the blood is on the killers hands if its aborted


What do you want? Go around and exterminate all the Retards and others with disabilities or something? Or no, but only if they are still in the womb and unprotected by the law?


All I have to say at this point is this:
fst fwd to around 4:00

(06-03-2009 09:37 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  so you completely understand and sympathize with MURDERING A DR. IN CHURCH!!!!!! Have you gone mad..... Jeez Louise GG.

There's the answer Mach.

I was going to take the poll. I didn't want the whack jobs getting my e-mail though. I couldn't see the results of the poll and I'm glad you posted them, but ....................I just went through the posts I didn't misrepresent shyt. G damn it you can find the g damn posts yourself.

(06-03-2009 09:50 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Now... the g dman mther fckers who celebrate the murder of a Dr. in church. I'd fckin saw your bodies in half with a butter knife.

I want to take a chain saw to the man that killed William Long.

(06-03-2009 09:54 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(06-03-2009 09:50 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Now... the g dman mther fckers who celebrate the murder of a Dr. in church. I'd fckin saw your bodies in half with a butter knife.

I want to take a chain saw to the man that killed William Long.

People like Mach want to give them due process in the United States. See, to those fruitbats, the only ones that deserve to be tortured, are Americans who they disagree with. All I can say is, bring it f'ers. I have a Glock Model 36 loaded with Black Talons.....among other "toys".

Partial birth abortions victims get their limbs sawed in half often times, little wonder some WND poster projected that Injustice onto TIller in seeking "Justice"


<refraining from posting pics>