The height debate aside, I am still waiting for an explanation on how the team was winning and beat Gtown twice and ND and then beat WVU....IF...they didnt respect him. So the loss of respect and not wanting to play for Cronin came AFTER arguably the BIGGEST WIN of the season...a gutty performance beating the Mountaineers. Again, makes perfect sense.

Lute Olson hardly strikes fear in anyone. Beilein? Lou Carnesecca? John Wooden? Thad Matta? Pitino great example above. Eddie Sutton sure was imposing.

If height was an issue why would the kids even agree to come here and play for him?

(03-13-2009 03:25 PM)DelhiBearcat Wrote:  

(03-13-2009 03:13 PM)levydl Wrote:  So would Yancy Gates fear Rick Pitino, who's all of 5'10"?

No. He'd respect his hall of fame resume.

I can't believe some of you guys are so nieve that you don't know everyone is human. Humans make judgements based on physical appearance. When Cronin walks out of a house on a recruiting trip you don't think an aunt looks over at the family and says "He sure was a little fella".

I remember Huggins once saying when asked about receiving technicals, "When the little guys yell and hop around over there everyone thinks it's cute". The cameras love to show Cronin getting worked up with his bottom lip sticking out...it's cute.

I do not think anyone is nieve. Everyone can agree that some do make judgments on any of a number of perceptions. However, those reasons or perceptions, on which the judgment is made, are very telling of one's intelligence level, biases, and ego. Typically, someone who is mature, intelligent and confident in themselves has little time to make a decisions based on physical attributes.

My Main Man!!!!

(03-13-2009 03:25 PM)DelhiBearcat Wrote:  

(03-13-2009 03:13 PM)levydl Wrote:  So would Yancy Gates fear Rick Pitino, who's all of 5'10"?

No. He'd respect his hall of fame resume.

I can't believe some of you guys are so nieve that you don't know everyone is human. Humans make judgements based on physical appearance. When Cronin walks out of a house on a recruiting trip you don't think an aunt looks over at the family and says "He sure was a little fella".

I remember Huggins once saying when asked about receiving technicals, "When the little guys yell and hop around over there everyone thinks it's cute". The cameras love to show Cronin getting worked up with his bottom lip sticking out...it's cute.

He didn't start with a hall of fame resume. Pitino had to earn his player's respect before he could become a hall of fame coach.

I'm sure recruits have questioned Mick because he's so short. I just don't think the guys that signed up to play for him now don't respect him because he's short. If it's true that they don't respect him, I seriously doubt that has anything to do with it.

(03-13-2009 01:51 PM)50Cent Wrote:  Many on here blame coach and say Cronin doesnt lead....but most sports teams arent led by their coach. They are led by a player or group of players. Sparky Anderson didnt run the Reds...he let Rose and Morgan and Perez and Bench run them. Phil Jackson didnt run the Bulls....Jordan did. Phil Jackson hasnt run the Lakers...Shaq did and now Kobe does. Ray Lewis runs the Ravens.

As was mentioned before, there's a huge difference between college and professional sports.

I think some of the players lack respect for Cronin and/or don't always believe what he's saying. That isn't a problem for a Bob Knight, Bob Huggins, Jim Calhoun, Rick Pitino, etc. They can simply point to their accomplishments and say "My way works, so it's my way or get the hell out of my gym". Each of those guys has a reputation and puts fear in the eyes of the incoming recruits. They each generate respect immediately because they had built it up over time. Obviously each had the same issues of earning their players respect back when they lacked experience.

Cronin hasn't yet accomplished things that well established coaches have, so it's going to take some time (and WINS) to prove himself. He's not an imposing figure (that doesn't mean height) and didn't play college basketball, so I think it's a little more difficult for him. Does that mean Cronin won't become a good coach? Hell no, I think he could become a great coach. The more experience, the better he'll become. If you win, everything fixes itself. Until he's a proven winner, he's going to have people questioning whether or not he knows what he's doing, and that includes players.

The one thing I wish Cronin would do is to be more emotional and "trigger happy". When a player has a defensive lapse during a game, pull him out and loudly tell him how he screwed up. Then, send him back in the game a minute later. I don't see that alot from Cronin and wish I'd see it more often.

Well, I don't know what the players like or dislike. I would tend to guess a lot of kids that age don't like discipline. I do know coach needs to find a way to get maximum hustle from the kids, whether they like him or not. The last four games were all lack of effort (mental as much as physical).

I've read a lot and heard several of John Wooden's former players speak of their time with him at UCLA when they won their 10 championships in the 1960s and 1970s. Several thought the man was nuts at the time because one of the first things he would teach a team before their first practice was how to properly put their socks and shoes on.

Some of their other "life lessons" stories with Wooden make you laugh, but the same theme emerged in that they all wondered what they had gotten themselves into by coming to UCLA.

I guess the point here would be kids are kids, and my bet would be there are a couple questionable apples in the bunch. The key is in the solution.

Looking forward to next year, hopefully with some fast breaks thrown in...

(03-13-2009 03:33 PM)50Cent Wrote:  Lute Olson hardly strikes fear in anyone. Beilein? Lou Carnesecca? John Wooden? Thad Matta? Pitino great example above. Eddie Sutton sure was imposing.

If height was an issue why would the kids even agree to come here and play for him?

I'm pretty sure all those guys played college basketball. Maybe not Carnesecca...not sure...of course you are talking about an era when respect meant something with him.

Playing time in the Big East would probably be a factor in deciding to come here.

I don't think you guys get what I'm saying. I'm not saying these guys are consciously saying, "I'm not going to listen to him...he's short". I'm just saying how the human mind works. A large presence yelling at you is more intimidating than a smaller presence yelling at you. A well respected or legendary coach yelling at you is more intimidating than some guy most of these players had never even heard of before he got the Cincinnati job.

Experience brings you respect...Presence brings you fear...which does Cronin have?

(03-13-2009 03:34 PM)bearcatmill Wrote:  I do not think anyone is nieve. Everyone can agree that some do make judgments on any of a number of perceptions. However, those reasons or perceptions, on which the judgment is made, are very telling of one's intelligence level, biases, and ego. Typically, someone who is mature, intelligent and confident in themselves has little time to make a decisions based on physical attributes.

Again...we're talking about high school and college kids, the majority of which, aren't going to school on academic scholarships.

(03-13-2009 03:38 PM)THE BearcatBrent Wrote:  

My Main Man!!!!

take that, jake "the snake" roberts!

I will give you maturity. I will give you ego too. Many 18 year old basketball players think they are God's gift to the game. However, a great percentage of high school and college kids are intelligent, irregardless whether they are on an academic scholarship.

and let us not forget:

That 3 time all-american hung out with some big dudes!

play the game argument now?

how is mike leach doing as a football coach (texas tech)....guess his players didnt respect him cause he didnt play college football.

mick did play the game in high school and had it not been for a blown out knee probably would have played at a lower level. grew up around the game his whole life. huggins must have thought plenty of his ability as an assistant and so did pitino. as far as coaching, 2 ncaa bids shows he can get to the big dance.

next.

(03-13-2009 05:24 PM)50Cent Wrote:  play the game argument now?

By now I guess you mean my 1st post in the thread.

Quote:how is mike leach doing as a football coach (texas tech)....guess his players didnt respect him cause he didnt play college football.

I don't really follow college football that closely other than UC, so I'm not fimiliar with the presence he brings. Is there a lot of talk about his teams quiting on him as well?

Quote:huggins must have thought plenty of his ability as an assistant and so did pitino.

Well you're half right. Huggins did. Pitino would have probably called security to have him removed from his office if he showed up in Lexington saying "Hi Coach Pitino...I'm an assistant at Woodward". Pitino wasn't as interested until he was the head recruiter at his biggest in conference rival.

Quote:as far as coaching, 2 ncaa bids shows he can get to the big dance.

Gotta love those mid-major automatic bids

Quote:next.

God I hope not.

Anybody ever seen Mike Fratello?

Could get a job working with Dorothy and the Tin Man...

I think MC is a young coach who is still developing...like any other profession...

My biggest fear is that he is not going into recruiting with all the advantages other schools have, especially in the BE...

Anyone wanting him gone has never suggested a better alternative...

I think the reason that the team faded down the stretch has a lot more to do than a respect issue. After beating wvu the pressure was on to make the tourney, the team is flat out weak mentally. after the debacle at the cuse the team again came out fairly weak and usf hung with them. then uc gets a 5-7 point lead and the pressure is on, and as a mentally weak team they paniced and blew the game. Same issue with seton hall and depaul. This bearcat era will never be the same as the previous one, so comparisons to huggins teams really have no relevance to this respect question, other then the unversity's name. As soon as the pressure turns on this team fades away. Absolutely zero mental toughness. Against wvu, notre dame, and g'town we were the under dog and the pressure wasn't on us to win and therefore we won those games. Every must win game this season, save wvu, the bearcats crumbled under pressure and lost. Even Vaughn said that this team loves to play under the radar. The real question is how to toughen these kids up, winning cures a lot of things and respect is defenetly one of them

(03-13-2009 05:48 PM)NVExel Wrote:  Anybody ever seen Mike Fratello?

Could get a job working with Dorothy and the Tin Man...

I think MC is a young coach who is still developing...like any other profession...

My biggest fear is that he is not going into recruiting with all the advantages other schools have, especially in the BE...

Anyone wanting him gone has never suggested a better alternative...

Mike Fratello is a pro coach. Guys who don't do their job in the league don't have a job in the league, so players are expected to act professionally.

I would agree with the rest of what you said other than I think being able to offer immediate playing time in the Big East is a recruiting advantage.

(03-13-2009 03:46 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(03-13-2009 01:51 PM)50Cent Wrote:  Many on here blame coach and say Cronin doesnt lead....but most sports teams arent led by their coach. They are led by a player or group of players. Sparky Anderson didnt run the Reds...he let Rose and Morgan and Perez and Bench run them. Phil Jackson didnt run the Bulls....Jordan did. Phil Jackson hasnt run the Lakers...Shaq did and now Kobe does. Ray Lewis runs the Ravens.

As was mentioned before, there's a huge difference between college and professional sports.

I think some of the players lack respect for Cronin and/or don't always believe what he's saying. That isn't a problem for a Bob Knight, Bob Huggins, Jim Calhoun, Rick Pitino, etc. They can simply point to their accomplishments and say "My way works, so it's my way or get the hell out of my gym". Each of those guys has a reputation and puts fear in the eyes of the incoming recruits. They each generate respect immediately because they had built it up over time. Obviously each had the same issues of earning their players respect back when they lacked experience.

Cronin hasn't yet accomplished things that well established coaches have, so it's going to take some time (and WINS) to prove himself. He's not an imposing figure (that doesn't mean height) and didn't play college basketball, so I think it's a little more difficult for him. Does that mean Cronin won't become a good coach? Hell no, I think he could become a great coach. The more experience, the better he'll become. If you win, everything fixes itself. Until he's a proven winner, he's going to have people questioning whether or not he knows what he's doing, and that includes players.

The one thing I wish Cronin would do is to be more emotional and "trigger happy". When a player has a defensive lapse during a game, pull him out and loudly tell him how he screwed up. Then, send him back in the game a minute later. I don't see that alot from Cronin and wish I'd see it more often.

I guess you and I watched different UC teams this year. Aside from Deonta Vaughn, the second anyone screwed up on defense, they were immediately pulled from the game. Nearly all of the subbing done this season was based on defensive lapses. I think that might be the bigger issue- two sets of rules on the team- 1 for Deonta and one for everyone else. Everyone else had to play defense of they were immediately pulled. Deonta definitely did not bring full intensity on defense at all times, and was not pulled for it....just throwing the idea out there.

(03-13-2009 06:47 PM)DP3113 Wrote:  I guess you and I watched different UC teams this year. Aside from Deonta Vaughn, the second anyone screwed up on defense, they were immediately pulled from the game. Nearly all of the subbing done this season was based on defensive lapses. I think that might be the bigger issue- two sets of rules on the team- 1 for Deonta and one for everyone else. Everyone else had to play defense of they were immediately pulled. Deonta definitely did not bring full intensity on defense at all times, and was not pulled for it....just throwing the idea out there.

Vaughn's the guy that had the most defensive lapses. I recall plenty of times where I was yelling at the television for Cronin to take out (insert player here) due to a poor defensive play, rebounding error, etc. I didn't see it happen near as often as I would have liked.

(03-13-2009 12:01 PM)DelhiBearcat Wrote:  That was one of my main concerns all along. Let's face facts...these kids are all under the impression they are God's gift to basketball, and Mick Cronin is a foot shorter than most of them and has never played a second of college basketball. He's in a situation where respect has to be earned, it's not just given to him like a former star or a big 6-5 presence yelling in your face. I doubt any player fears him...and that's a factor.

A player can FEAR a coach when a coach can bench them or suspend them for not practicing hard or having an attitude problem. I think that can be FEARFUL for some players.