same old same old.

Be thankful none of the victims are your family or friends.

After reading the press release about this incident I want to know how this guy was able to shoot people in 3 seperate incidents in different communities and not get caught till the 3rd incident? Law enforcement must be lax down their. Obviously conceal and carry didn't help these unfortunate individuals who were attacked. Just a sickening tragedy.

The pastor in s Il had no chance.

Must churchgoers pack heat during services to be safe?

(03-11-2009 09:36 AM)cyberdawg Wrote:  The pastor in s Il had no chance.

Must churchgoers pack heat during services to be safe?

no, the churchgoers were safe, the pastor wasnt.

(03-10-2009 10:46 PM)onlinepole Wrote:  After reading the press release about this incident I want to know how this guy was able to shoot people in 3 seperate incidents in different communities and not get caught till the 3rd incident? Law enforcement must be lax down their. Obviously conceal and carry didn't help these unfortunate individuals who were attacked. Just a sickening tragedy.

If it was rural and isolated, noone would have heard the shots and probably not called the po po. Plus some of those rural counties may not have a bunch of people in squads to respond that quickly. Really a tough situation.

I work in a heavily crime-infested area. Once or twice per week, my employer sends out crime alerts. It's always muggings and armed robbery. If I were allowed to conceal and carry, I would - and I would feel a hell of a lot safer. Then again, if I were accosted, I would use my gun, and I'd probably be the one to get in trouble.

(03-11-2009 09:36 AM)cyberdawg Wrote:  The pastor in s Il had no chance.

Must churchgoers pack heat during services to be safe?

... Ask Peter......

(03-11-2009 02:41 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  I work in a heavily crime-infested area. Once or twice per week, my employer sends out crime alerts. It's always muggings and armed robbery. If I were allowed to conceal and carry, I would - and I would feel a hell of a lot safer. Then again, if I were accosted, I would use my gun, and I'd probably be the one to get in trouble.

I'm right there with you. I've taken all the legal steps in order to be able to possess a gun, but for some reason, the state of Illinois refuses to pass a conceal and carry law. That being said, there are many places where I do not feel a gun should carried, but if some lunatic busts into my congregation on a Sunday morning while I'm sitting in church and starts unloading on people, I'd pull my gun and take them out. I think in the world we live in today, people should be able to protect themselves. I'm not saying that anyone carrying a gun should be allowed to shoot someone, but there has to be a time when a responsible gun carrier, who has gone through the proper steps and has been deemed legal to carry a gun, should be able to protect themselves and the innocent around them.

That being said, if a conceal and carry law is ever passed in Illinois, getting a gun and FOID card should be a more difficult process. Then if you are deemed responsible through that process, then carry your gun legally, and use it responsibly.

Packing a concealed weapon will deter a NUT from a rampage?

You are applying logic to irrational minds not logical.

(03-11-2009 03:25 PM)cyberdawg Wrote:  Packing a conceaeld weapon will deter a NUT from a rampage?

Your are applying logic to minds not logical.

It won't necessarily deter the nut, but that's not the point here. Carrying and using a weapon will protect ME and possibly other innocents. It certainly gives me a much better chance of surviving an attack than had I not been carrying a weapon. And, who knows? Maybe the knowlege of people carrying guns to protect themselves just WILL deter that nutbag.

Most nutz often choose to end their own life anyways for they have no reverence for life - including their own. They are often seeking to end their own miserable life and take others with them.

I dont agree nor disagree with the assessment of being better able to protect oneself from street crime & home invasions with a concealed weapon.

Those circumstances are NOT typically ones involving mass murder of innocents by nutjobs.

Can you begin to imagine a Cubs-Yankees world series or Bears- Packers in playoffs scenario in which most drunken fans from opposing teams packed heat in tailgate parking lots after a close game ends?

Booze, sports fanaticism and guns is not a good combination.

(03-11-2009 03:56 PM)cyberdawg Wrote:  Can you begin to imagine a Cubs-Yankees world series or Bears- Packers in playoffs scenario in which most drunken fans from opposing teams packed heat in tailgate parking lots after a close game ends?

Booze, sports fanaticism and guns is not a good combination.

You should better educate yourself on conceal and carry laws before spouting off this type alarmism. Many states have conceal and carry laws, alcohol sales and sports teams without the blood bath you've imagined.

Everytime you post something like this, remind yourself that Illinois has some of the most restrictive firearms laws in the USA - laws that did nothing to stop the NIU shooting.

Remember Cybes, few of us conceal and carry advocates want to be a hero. We want to protect ourselves and our families first, and in order for me to protect myself and family against certain crimes, a concealed firearm is an option.

Personal choice is a HUGE part of the American psyche. Owning a firearm is a personal choice. Getting a conceal and carry permit is a personal choice.

Finally, remember as well that statistics from all sides of the arguement show that a very small percentage of firearm owners commit crimes, and an even smaller percentage of conceal and carry permit owners commit crimes.

Guns are never the problem. Crazies with guns are the problem. You won't stop the nuts, but damnit don't legislate me into a sheep among wolves.

(03-11-2009 03:25 PM)cyberdawg Wrote:  Packing a concealed weapon will deter a NUT from a rampage?

You are applying logic to irrational minds not logical.

Actually, I would say your logic here is flawed - you have absolutely NO WAY of knowing how many crazies have been detered by the thought of getting into a shootout armed citizenry.

NO WAY.

what about all the ones not deterred?

what's really scary is that I have a conceal and carry permit (lifetime...thanks indiana!)

(03-11-2009 03:25 PM)cyberdawg Wrote:  Packing a concealed weapon will deter a NUT from a rampage?

You are applying logic to irrational minds not logical.

it may not deter it, but it can certainly shorten it.

(03-11-2009 05:32 PM)cyberdawg Wrote:  what about all the ones not deterred?

What about all the ones committed with guns while guns are "illegal" in this state? Look at all the gun crimes committed in Chicago alone, while Dickey Daley spouts off on how terrible guns are. Are the current laws stopping the idiots and gang bangers from getting guns and committing crimes? No. What the laws are doing is preventing innocent people from getting the means to protect themselves and their families.

The conceal and carry law will not make it easier for the idiots to buy guns. They will still get their guns the same way they always have. The new law would allow us law-abiding citizens to help maintain our right to live in peace and security.

I had never been a gun advocate in the past. But, the astronomical rise in crimes committed with guns has changed my mind. It is all around me. Why should we not be allowed to protect ourselves? If and when confronted by an idiot pointing a gun at you and indicating that he is going to kill you, what do you plan on doing - talk nicely to him and tell him to pretty please not to shoot you? My option is to have a my hand on a gun and make him regret that he ever saw me.