(01-20-2009 05:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-20-2009 04:46 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Government is using R&D for the public good. Corps. have only one allegiance. Money. So if a breakthrough is made on taxpayer dime, the taxpayer should reap benefit from the R&D provided to the Corps. products.

Do that and the only thing you'll accomplish is to chase R&D away from the US as fast as manufacturing is now leaving. At least, corporate sponsored R&D. You'll still have the pure science academic R&D, of course.

If a business can't expect to make money doing something, then it has no incentive to do it. For the life of me, I cannot understand why this concept is so difficult to grasp.

Newsflash, where R&D is concerned, there is no haven overseas. Except maybe Israel. And thats the real 411.

(01-20-2009 05:41 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(01-20-2009 05:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-20-2009 04:46 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Government is using R&D for the public good. Corps. have only one allegiance. Money. So if a breakthrough is made on taxpayer dime, the taxpayer should reap benefit from the R&D provided to the Corps. products.

Do that and the only thing you'll accomplish is to chase R&D away from the US as fast as manufacturing is now leaving. At least, corporate sponsored R&D. You'll still have the pure science academic R&D, of course.
If a business can't expect to make money doing something, then it has no incentive to do it. For the life of me, I cannot understand why this concept is so difficult to grasp.

Newsflash, where R&D is concerned, there is no haven overseas. Except maybe Israel. And thats the real 411.

I don't necessarily agree, and in any event I'm quite certain that if significant R&D activities were looking for home, there'd be plenty of places ready to become havens if needed.

More importantly, just how do you think an approach like you are envisioning would work? Why would anyone do any research with government participation at all?

Of course, come to think of it, getting the government out of R&D altogether might not be a bad thing.

(01-20-2009 04:38 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-19-2009 11:54 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I would like to know what YOU would be willing to do to help your country.

What would I do for my country? On top of

Pay current taxes
Not break any laws
Keep a clean, responsible house
Work hard so my company is successful
Volunteer through my neighborhood association
Etc.
Etc.
Etc.

I've done everything right. I have little debt outside of one car payment and a mortgage I put 10% down, I've not been arrested, I pay my taxes on time, I am a good neighbor, volunteer and civic member. I donate a fair amount of my money, both pre tax and post tax, to the United Way and other local charities. I contribute to the economy by purchasing consumer goods, I have adequate savings, I make yearly care packages to our troops overseas, I tip the mailman at Christmas, I don't rake leaves into the street, I buy US made beer and bourbon, and I follow NIU athletics (directional state schools are the epitome of supporting your country / hah!)

Shite, I even shovel my neighbors walkway when she is out of town.

Why is the government asking me to do MORE?

What he said.

I've DONE everything I'm supposed to do, let the damn politicians break out their own f'n checkbooks. They're the ones that caused this ****.

(01-20-2009 05:55 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-20-2009 05:41 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(01-20-2009 05:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-20-2009 04:46 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Government is using R&D for the public good. Corps. have only one allegiance. Money. So if a breakthrough is made on taxpayer dime, the taxpayer should reap benefit from the R&D provided to the Corps. products.

Do that and the only thing you'll accomplish is to chase R&D away from the US as fast as manufacturing is now leaving. At least, corporate sponsored R&D. You'll still have the pure science academic R&D, of course.
If a business can't expect to make money doing something, then it has no incentive to do it. For the life of me, I cannot understand why this concept is so difficult to grasp.

Newsflash, where R&D is concerned, there is no haven overseas. Except maybe Israel. And thats the real 411.

I don't necessarily agree, and in any event I'm quite certain that if significant R&D activities were looking for home, there'd be plenty of places ready to become havens if needed.

More importantly, just how do you think an approach like you are envisioning would work? Why would anyone do any research with government participation at all?

Of course, come to think of it, getting the government out of R&D altogether might not be a bad thing.

Dude, you gotta put down the koolaid....

(01-20-2009 05:55 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Of course, come to think of it, getting the government out of R&D altogether might not be a bad thing.

I have considered that perspective, trying to come in from a very libertarian POV. And even w/ the optimistic assumption that industry will do more R&D if the gov't cedes it, I don't think this is the best course.

By definition in R&D, we don't know what we don't know. You just can't make predictions. You have to do reasearch that you can't make a business case for. Yet, for the good of the commonwealth, some R&D must be done. That is a legitimate role for gov't.

I'd cite the microwave spectroscopy that preceded the maser, by decades, as the quintessential example of such an investment.

(01-20-2009 05:59 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(01-20-2009 05:55 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-20-2009 05:41 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(01-20-2009 05:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-20-2009 04:46 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Government is using R&D for the public good. Corps. have only one allegiance. Money. So if a breakthrough is made on taxpayer dime, the taxpayer should reap benefit from the R&D provided to the Corps. products.

Do that and the only thing you'll accomplish is to chase R&D away from the US as fast as manufacturing is now leaving. At least, corporate sponsored R&D. You'll still have the pure science academic R&D, of course.
If a business can't expect to make money doing something, then it has no incentive to do it. For the life of me, I cannot understand why this concept is so difficult to grasp.

Newsflash, where R&D is concerned, there is no haven overseas. Except maybe Israel. And thats the real 411.

I don't necessarily agree, and in any event I'm quite certain that if significant R&D activities were looking for home, there'd be plenty of places ready to become havens if needed.
More importantly, just how do you think an approach like you are envisioning would work? Why would anyone do any research with government participation at all?
Of course, come to think of it, getting the government out of R&D altogether might not be a bad thing.

Dude, you gotta put down the koolaid....

No koolaid involved.
At least, none on my end.
I repeat my question. Just how do you expect the approach you envision to work? And why would anyone do any R&D under your proposal?

Same reason people climb mountains.

Simple, put down the Koolaid and listen, any development from lets say for example, Nasa or taxpayer funded Medical Research, or state or gov. supported academia research, must pay royalties to go to repay taxpayer's funded research.

(01-20-2009 06:19 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Same reason people climb mountains.
Simple, put down the Koolaid and listen, any development from lets say for example, Nasa or taxpayer funded Medical Research, or state or gov. supported academia research, must pay royalties to go to repay taxpayer's funded research.

You're not serious.

I suppose some small royalty wouldn't be fatal. But any amount even remotely approaching enough to make a measurable dent in our deficit would have a chilling effect on doing any research with government support. This WAS your plan to reduce the defiict, remember?

It'd be cheaper for companies to pay the costs themselves. Commercial viability would be the only determinant whether research got done or not. You said it yourself, money talks with corporate guys.

(01-19-2009 11:54 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I get it when FO talks about stealing wages. I get it when people talk about cutting spending. What I don't get is quadrupling the debt in 8 yrs. What sacrifices are YOU specifically willing to make to get OUR country out of this rut we are in. I would immediately institute a 75 cent tax increase on oil. I would also work one day for my country. Another creative idea I had was pass a law that all bills are suspended for one month. Make it Feb. 2010. All car payments house payments get pushed back one month. That month you pay the govt. half of your bills you keep the rest and spend it. These are so of my ideas. I would like to know what YOU would be willing to do to help your country.

I'd be willing to let the federal government stop all spending on benefits it provides me outside of national defense (only because I can't do that myself).

It is NOT what I am willing to do!!!....Its how much MORE those in power are willing to STEAL from me!!!!...and...They have NO compunction what so ever in doing so. These people will stop at NOTHING to assure that they stay in power and control our lives.

I have NO control over this problem one iota.

I wanna see if I get into trouble with the IRS if I don't pay taxes this year. Afterall, the new treasury secretary didn't pay his for FOUR.

I hope they are as understanding when I say I just didn't know.

I don't think it matters what I'm willing to do to help pay off the debt because it will all come down to what I'm told I'm going to do to help pay off the debt.