Doc- ETSU is there by choice. Their OWN CHOICE!

For all the talk about "The So Con was mean to us for kicking us out," it defies something that EVERY PREVIOUS ATHLETIC DIRECTOR KNEW ABOUT THE CONFERENCE AFFILIATION- that if ETSU did drop football, they'd be kicked out of the So Con.

Why do you think football was kept around for so long? The idea to drop football at ETSU has been around since the 1980s.

WHen I was a student there I did a speech about ETSU football- the professor mentioned how earlier students did a speech recommending the program's closure- where I spoke extensively with the then-AD- Dr. Janice Shelton- who told me emphatically that the So Con would kick them out if she dropped the sport.

For them to say "We didn't know!" is either a lie or an admission of total and complete incompetence.

ETSU chose to drop football. ETSU chose to violate the by-laws of the Southern Conference. ETSU chose to join the A-Sun.

Furthermore, the administration now says how great it is they are in the A-Sun, in the status quo.

After all, ETSU won seven regular season titles last year!

Now, I don't know. I might say that 1991, when the basketball team was the 17th best in the nation according to the AP, was superior to when they were 125th or whatever in 2007. I don't know how to compare a tennis championship in the A-Sun against finishing third in the nation in golf and eighth in Division I-AA in football in 1996. I don't even know if finishing, say, 4th in the So Con is akin to finishing first in the A-Sun, or how you can brag on total conference championships when ETSU now has more teams than it ever has.

I dream of the day ETSU can make the Final Four in basketball, David Mullins dreams about the day the tennis team wins back-to-back A-Sun tennis titles.

That's the choice ETSU has made.

PittsburghBucs Wrote:Doc- ETSU is there by choice. Their OWN CHOICE!

For all the talk about "The So Con was mean to us for kicking us out," it defies something that EVERY PREVIOUS ATHLETIC DIRECTOR KNEW ABOUT THE CONFERENCE AFFILIATION- that if ETSU did drop football, they'd be kicked out of the So Con.

I don't disagree with you at all. I believe there may have been an arrogance at ETSU that led to a thougth that the SoCon would not dare kick out their premier basketball, tennis and golf school. Obviously that was a wrong calculation. A bad assumption.

Remember lipstick on a pig doesn't do much for it's appearance.:squidward:

Just curious, but Davidson is in the SoCon right? And they don't play football in the SoCon?

To be honest I don't follow the SoCon at all and think it is about as lowly as the A-Sun, but any explanation will be appreciated.

Personally, I don't think ETSU is doing that much worse to be in the A-Sun - the SoCon isn't that great. This is just my opinion.

Davidson is in the pre-season Top 25. They've turned the corner -- and they are giving the SoCon the ability to be a two bid league. It's an opportunity that we'll have to wait and see if it actually happens.

ETSU was kicked out of the SoCon for not having football? If so then how can Davidson be in the SoCon when they don't play football in the league?

Just curious?

CWG Wrote:ETSU was kicked out of the SoCon for not having football? If so then how can Davidson be in the SoCon when they don't play football in the league?

Just curious?

Davidson and UNCG were ADMITTED to the SoCon without football.

They didn't change their football status once admitted to the SoCon.

The SoCon's mens basketball RPI for last season was 21, probably considered a true mid-major conference. The A-Sun's mens basketball RPI was 29, a low major conference with only two conferences in the nation with RPIs lower than the A-Sun.

We've discussed over and over the reasons fans believe that ETSU is so much worse in the A-Sun, but suffice it to say that almost all SoCon schools were closer to ETSU than the CLOSEST A-Sun schools (Georgia Southern being the exception).

That coupled with the much lower A-Sun men's basketball RPI pretty much sums up why many if not most ETSU fans are not happy at all to be in the A-Sun.

Men's basketball is the only visible sport at ETSU and playing that visible sport in a low-major conference is an issue for ETSU fans.

BTW if Davidson has turned the corner in basketball, it is difficult for ETSU fans also. Before being booted from the SoCon, ETSU had swept Davidson in the last year of their conference play. Agan, reinforces to fans that ETSU is worse off in the A-Sun.

BucDoctor Wrote:

CWG Wrote:ETSU was kicked out of the SoCon for not having football? If so then how can Davidson be in the SoCon when they don't play football in the league?

Just curious?

Davidson and UNCG were ADMITTED to the SoCon without football.

They didn't change their football status once admitted to the SoCon.

The SoCon's mens basketball RPI for last season was 21, probably considered a true mid-major conference. The A-Sun's mens basketball RPI was 29, a low major conference with only two conferences in the nation with RPIs lower than the A-Sun.

We've discussed over and over the reasons fans believe that ETSU is so much worse in the A-Sun, but suffice it to say that almost all SoCon schools were closer to ETSU than the CLOSEST A-Sun schools (Georgia Southern being the exception).

That coupled with the much lower A-Sun men's basketball RPI pretty much sums up why many if not most ETSU fans are not happy at all to be in the A-Sun.

Men's basketball is the only visible sport at ETSU and playing that visible sport in a low-major conference is an issue for ETSU fans.

BTW if Davidson has turned the corner in basketball, it is difficult for ETSU fans also. Before being booted from the SoCon, ETSU had swept Davidson in the last year of their conference play. Agan, reinforces to fans that ETSU is worse off in the A-Sun.

Thanks for the information, but I'm still not impressed with the SoCon.

CWG Wrote:

BucDoctor Wrote:

CWG Wrote:ETSU was kicked out of the SoCon for not having football? If so then how can Davidson be in the SoCon when they don't play football in the league?

Just curious?

Davidson and UNCG were ADMITTED to the SoCon without football.

They didn't change their football status once admitted to the SoCon.

The SoCon's mens basketball RPI for last season was 21, probably considered a true mid-major conference. The A-Sun's mens basketball RPI was 29, a low major conference with only two conferences in the nation with RPIs lower than the A-Sun.

We've discussed over and over the reasons fans believe that ETSU is so much worse in the A-Sun, but suffice it to say that almost all SoCon schools were closer to ETSU than the CLOSEST A-Sun schools (Georgia Southern being the exception).

That coupled with the much lower A-Sun men's basketball RPI pretty much sums up why many if not most ETSU fans are not happy at all to be in the A-Sun.

Men's basketball is the only visible sport at ETSU and playing that visible sport in a low-major conference is an issue for ETSU fans.

BTW if Davidson has turned the corner in basketball, it is difficult for ETSU fans also. Before being booted from the SoCon, ETSU had swept Davidson in the last year of their conference play. Agan, reinforces to fans that ETSU is worse off in the A-Sun.

Thanks for the information, but I'm still not impressed with the SoCon.

I should also add that the move to one of the worst mens basketball conferences in the country came on the heels of statements from ETSU administrators that, with the demise of football, basketball would become the premier sport at ETSU.

BTW, if you're not impressed with the SoCon (ranked 8 slots ahead of the A-Sun), exactly how should we view the A-Sun, a conference ranked in the bottom 10% of men's basketball conferences?

Again, see how ETSU fans have a difficult time seeing this as an improvement for men's basketball?

I've said enough, now back to discussing A-Sun football.

BucDoctor Wrote:

CWG Wrote:

BucDoctor Wrote:

CWG Wrote:ETSU was kicked out of the SoCon for not having football? If so then how can Davidson be in the SoCon when they don't play football in the league?

Just curious?

Davidson and UNCG were ADMITTED to the SoCon without football.

They didn't change their football status once admitted to the SoCon.

The SoCon's mens basketball RPI for last season was 21, probably considered a true mid-major conference. The A-Sun's mens basketball RPI was 29, a low major conference with only two conferences in the nation with RPIs lower than the A-Sun.

We've discussed over and over the reasons fans believe that ETSU is so much worse in the A-Sun, but suffice it to say that almost all SoCon schools were closer to ETSU than the CLOSEST A-Sun schools (Georgia Southern being the exception).

That coupled with the much lower A-Sun men's basketball RPI pretty much sums up why many if not most ETSU fans are not happy at all to be in the A-Sun.

Men's basketball is the only visible sport at ETSU and playing that visible sport in a low-major conference is an issue for ETSU fans.

BTW if Davidson has turned the corner in basketball, it is difficult for ETSU fans also. Before being booted from the SoCon, ETSU had swept Davidson in the last year of their conference play. Agan, reinforces to fans that ETSU is worse off in the A-Sun.

Thanks for the information, but I'm still not impressed with the SoCon.

I should also add that the move to one of the worst mens basketball conferences in the country came on the heels of statements from ETSU administrators that, with the demise of football, basketball would become the premier sport at ETSU.

BTW, if you're not impressed with the SoCon (ranked 8 slots ahead of the A-Sun), exactly how should we view the A-Sun, a conference ranked in the bottom 10% of men's basketball conferences?

Again, see how ETSU fans have a difficult time seeing this as an improvement for men's basketball?

I've said enough, now back to discussing A-Sun football.

Well you see my undergrad degree is from an SEC school (my MBA and JD are from Mercer), so the SoCon has always been somewhat of a laughing stock for people who went to Georgia. I'm certainly not saying the A-Sun is any better; I'm just saying the difference is negligible --> they both SUCK!

As far as your gripes and frustrations it sounds like you have more of a problem with the administration at ETSU than the A-Sun. It actually sounds like the A-Sun did ETSU a favor by taking them.

Well, I wish you the best of luck, but the SoCon, while "better" (in your words) than the A-Sun, is certainly not an ultimate goal to strive for.

Regardless of the success in Division I-AA football, the SoCon would be (and really still is) unknown without Davidson's Elite Eight trip!

Face it! the SoCon SUCKS! It is not a GREAT conference! (yes, the A-Sun sucks too!)

I agree in principle with CWG here, the SoCon is a decent little league as far as it goes and probably a little better than the A-Sun in basketball but seems like the ETSU folk on their board remember it as if it were the ACC. Guess absence really does make the heart grow fonder.

I will say though that the POTENTIAL for the SoCon to really come back on the map exists b/c of the twin efforts of Davidson hoops and App State football. Those SoCon logos on their chests are prominent in every photo you see from the Michigan game. We had similar potential back in November when Gardner-Webb, Mercer, etc. took all those early scalps, unfortunately nothing really came of it. Belmont could perhaps have done something like what Davidson did if they coulda gotten by Duke...but they didn't.

HatterFan Wrote:I agree in principle with CWG here, the SoCon is a decent little league as far as it goes and probably a little better than the A-Sun in basketball but seems like the ETSU folk on their board remember it as if it were the ACC. Guess absence really does make the heart grow fonder.

I will say though that the POTENTIAL for the SoCon to really come back on the map exists b/c of the twin efforts of Davidson hoops and App State football. Those SoCon logos on their chests are prominent in every photo you see from the Michigan game. We had similar potential back in November when Gardner-Webb, Mercer, etc. took all those early scalps, unfortunately nothing really came of it. Belmont could perhaps have done something like what Davidson did if they coulda gotten by Duke...but they didn't.

No one can refute that the A-Sun is in the bottom 10% of NCAA D1 Men's Basketball conferences. No one said the SoCon was the ACC, but it is 8 slots better than the A-Sun in men's basketball :), and I've said before that is the ONLY visible sport at ETSU. To not recognize the weakness of the A-Sun is sticking our heads in the sand.

ETSU fans also have a real issue with the geography, the footprint of the A-Sun. ETSU just doesn't fit that footprint. Do you folks realize how easy it is to drive from Johnson City to Furman, Wofford, Charleston, Citadel, App State, Chattanooga, Davidson, Western Carolina, and UNCG?

Do we all wish the A-Sun was better, certainly. Is it likely to get better...remains to be seen. I don't see how it can become better if it continues to be the conference everyone in the South joins so they can move up, or the conference everyone in the South joins because no one else will take them (ETSU).

Again, no intent to hijack the thread, but back to my original point, I just cannot see ETSU playing football in the A-Sun for very long. The A-Sun is a terrible fit for ETSU, the travel costs are tremendous.

Note to CWG, Georgia was a charter member of the SoCon as was Auburn, Alabama, Clemson, Georgia Tech, and Kentucky. The SoCon birthed both the SEC and ACC. It is the fifth oldest D1 conference in the NCAA.

I agree with most everything you guys have posted (the SoCon is better than A-Sun, but nowhere near the ACC). Personally, I am skeptical of the A-Sun’s leadership. I live in Macon and I wouldn’t even know the conference was based here if I didn’t follow Mercer so closely.

The conference has done a very poor job marketing itself and the leadership seems somewhat satisfied with the status quo. The commissioner seems like a nice enough guy, but also seems very unmotivated and unresponsive. I have e-mailed the commissioner several suggestions to which I have received either a canned response or, in most cases, no response. In my opinion, the A-Sun is a Division I conference that is run like a Division III conference. I believe with the right leadership the A-Sun could be where the SoCon is in 5 to 10 years (maybe less).

If you guys are interested e-mail the commissioner; maybe you will have better luck than I. Ted Gumbart’s e-mail is: tgumbart@atlanticsun.org

BucDoctor, I understand ETSU's geography issues and I think the SoCon did itself a disservice when it kicked you out or "encouraged ETSU to find other options" or however it went down.

I'm also not sure what it is CWG wants Gumbart to do re: football. Can't just wake up in the morning as a president or chancellor and say "hey, guy, let's start a football team today." Nor can the A-Sun commish just demand that 9 schools add a certain sport when I imagine few of them have the money to do so. I have a hard time even envisioning Stetson and football in the same sentence for a long while. Again though, maybe the new president in fall 2009 will have something to say about that...and maybe he/she won't.

HatterFan, have you noticed how many schools have left the A-Sun in the past few years because the A-Sun doesn't sponsor football? Well Central Florida, Florida International, Samford, Gardner Webb - just to name a few - have all left. Your ignorance illustrates the problem with the A-Sun conference. There are already two or three schools in the conference that have football with several more (Mercer, Kennesaw, etc...) discussing the prospect. The commissioner and many of the schools in the A-Sun (especially Stetson and Mercer) are too satisfied with the status quo and this is what pisses me off! Gumbart needs to move the conference forward and at least give football a serious look.

I don't know where you get that i wanted him to "just wake up in the morning and say 'hey, guy let's start a football team today.'" If that is what you think that you are really detached from what has been going on in the conference.

BTW - the conference doesn't revolve around Stetson! I don't think it would be necessary for Stetson to sponsor football for the conference to support the sport.

You forgot Ga. Southern and Florida Atlantic.

CWG Wrote:HatterFan, have you noticed how many schools have left the A-Sun in the past few years because the A-Sun doesn't sponsor football? Well Central Florida, Florida International, Samford, Gardner Webb - just to name a few - have all left. Your ignorance illustrates the problem with the A-Sun conference. There are already two or three schools in the conference that have football with several more (Mercer, Kennesaw, etc...) discussing the prospect. The commissioner and many of the schools in the A-Sun (especially Stetson and Mercer) are too satisfied with the status quo and this is what pisses me off! Gumbart needs to move the conference forward and at least give football a serious look.

I don't know where you get that i wanted him to "just wake up in the morning and say 'hey, guy let's start a football team today.'" If that is what you think that you are really detached from what has been going on in the conference.

BTW - the conference doesn't revolve around Stetson! I don't think it would be necessary for Stetson to sponsor football for the conference to support the sport.

Chrissakes, calm down. Never said anything about the league revolving around Stetson, just giving an example based on the school I know; I can't very well give USC Upstate's thinking on the matter for example. You do specifically complain that Stetson and Mercer are too satisfied with the status quo...I don't know about Mercer but quite frankly the status quo is all we can afford right now and all we have been able to afford for quite some time now.

Football isn't Gumbart's call. It has zero to do with him, it's all on the presidents and trustees of individual institutions. TV deals, OOC basketball scheduling policies, etc. is to be laid at the feet of the conference, but not football. If enough schools eventually start football on their own then they can go to the A-Sun and say "hey, let's do this thing, let's play under the league banner."

When I hear of schools like St. Peter's (NJ) and La Salle that were small private schools that used non-scholly football to keep male students enrolled at full price and they give up the sport; makes me wonder if non-scholarship football with no playoff access, a 10-game exhibition schedule, is really worth it.

HatterFan Wrote:

CWG Wrote:HatterFan, have you noticed how many schools have left the A-Sun in the past few years because the A-Sun doesn't sponsor football? Well Central Florida, Florida International, Samford, Gardner Webb - just to name a few - have all left. Your ignorance illustrates the problem with the A-Sun conference. There are already two or three schools in the conference that have football with several more (Mercer, Kennesaw, etc...) discussing the prospect. The commissioner and many of the schools in the A-Sun (especially Stetson and Mercer) are too satisfied with the status quo and this is what pisses me off! Gumbart needs to move the conference forward and at least give football a serious look.

I don't know where you get that i wanted him to "just wake up in the morning and say 'hey, guy let's start a football team today.'" If that is what you think that you are really detached from what has been going on in the conference.

BTW - the conference doesn't revolve around Stetson! I don't think it would be necessary for Stetson to sponsor football for the conference to support the sport.

Chrissakes, calm down. Never said anything about the league revolving around Stetson, just giving an example based on the school I know; I can't very well give USC Upstate's thinking on the matter for example. You do specifically complain that Stetson and Mercer are too satisfied with the status quo...I don't know about Mercer but quite frankly the status quo is all we can afford right now and all we have been able to afford for quite some time now.

Football isn't Gumbart's call. It has zero to do with him, it's all on the presidents and trustees of individual institutions. TV deals, OOC basketball scheduling policies, etc. is to be laid at the feet of the conference, but not football. If enough schools eventually start football on their own then they can go to the A-Sun and say "hey, let's do this thing, let's play under the league banner."

When I hear of schools like St. Peter's (NJ) and La Salle that were small private schools that used non-scholly football to keep male students enrolled at full price and they give up the sport; makes me wonder if non-scholarship football with no playoff access, a 10-game exhibition schedule, is really worth it.

I think we have enough schools interested for the conference to seriously consider supporting football. If there were more support from the conference, other teams would consider.

I am sorry to hear that Stetson is broke, but that is not the conference's problem. If the conference is not moving forward then it is moving behind. If certain schools cannot afford to compete at the Division I level then maybe they should consider playing Division II.

However, I do not believe the conference should force all schools to play football; I just think there should be support for the teams that do want to play. And this, my friend, is Gumbart's call!

CWG... just a little note. Mercer has been showing signs that they want to win, and not just tread water. They have built a new arena... they have put a coach in place that can win in baseball... they have fired Slonaker in basketball and payed more for a better coach.

If they didn't care we wouldn't pay all this extra money for these things.

More than just keeping the 'status quo'

MercerFan Wrote:CWG... just a little note. Mercer has been showing signs that they want to win, and not just tread water. They have built a new arena... they have put a coach in place that can win in baseball... they have fired Slonaker in basketball and payed more for a better coach.

If they didn't care we wouldn't pay all this extra money for these things.

More than just keeping the 'status quo'

MercerFan,

Once Again, Slonaker was not "fired"! He was allowed to work out the end of his contract, his contract was just not renewed.

Mercer had a losing record in both Men and Women's basketball and baseball this year. I'm not sure what signs that you have seen that show you that Mercer is turning the corner, but I am not impressed. A new arena does not prove that Mercer is not satisfied with the status quo.

Have you been to any Mercer basketball games? With the exception of the Alabama game, the UC is ALWAYS empty. What is the Athletic Dept doing about this? I'll tell you what, NOTHING! What good is a "new arena" if you don't take steps to fill it up?

Mercer will never leave the A-Sun conference, no matter how bad it gets; this is another sign that Mercer IS satisfied with the status quo.

While I do admire your optimism, I cannot be that oblivious to the truth.

CWG,

1) He was fired. It was just a polite way to do it. His entire staff is gone. They had no reason to give the team to an assistant for a few games. But you are correct, he wasn't technically 'fired'. So I'll leave my opinion of it alone since we won't agree on that!

2) Yes I've been to tons of basketball games. I hate how the arena is so empty. A big blame for that can be Slonakers inability to win. Look up the last time we beat Belmont. You'll be shocked. I think it's something like 4 years ago? It's insane.

3) I should have been more clear... I didn't mean we were full throttle trying to improve at Mercer. I just meant we weren't standing still. We're going about 5 or 10 MPH. haha.... We're trying, just baby steps. Our new President has pulled a lot of strings already (womens basketball and mens basketball). He can't do it overnight. We just need to keep the pressure on as fans.