egrizzard Wrote:Hold on--TOGC asked to discuss football in an intelligent manner and take a critical look at the state of the program, and ya'll are clowning him? I asked him, and others time and time again to talk about the footall season when it was over.

You know one the difference between Memphs and some big time programs? They dicuss their programs year round--not onl that-we want it moved off the main board? calm down. The man asked for an intelligent conversation--- no one is forcing you to enter the talk.

Yes, I will defend TW. Your strength of schedule arguement doesn't hold water. With the exception of the non conf schedule--we have no control over how strong the other teams are. The sos is subjective for one, and in addition, more a reflection the teams in the conf are getting worse.

The defense has gotten worse,and I can in no way defend that. TW has stated that the defense we had was not good enough to win championships, and that he had to start over. I am not blaming JLD,but if you follow the program closely, you know that JLD an "bubba" were awful, awful recruiters. We are paying the price for that now. I will say the time for that excuse has passed, and I don't wanna hear it anymore and I won't go there again. Is Kravitz the answer? Dunno. If I am in charge, he has got next year to show us. I will also say I see loads of potential on this defense, and a few key players can turn the whole thing around. It all starts with the front 4 on defense--if we can start getting some heat from them, it will make the entire defense look better. Even Champ Bailey can't cover the wr forever.

I also say this is chess, not checkers,and we will be okay.
Answer another question for me. Before the first NO bowl, did you ever imagine we would be this upset over a winning season and a bowl game?I say that is proof that TW has the program ina better place than it was.
Whoever called the football program crumbling---come on. That is a joke, right?

Alright, when a poster I respect asks I'll try to give my answer one more time.

TW may or may not be the guy to lead us to the promised land. But calling for his firing at this point is, at the least counter-productive.

The defense stinks. The special teams are abysmal. The offensive plan is solid. TW has acknowledged all three, publicly. So the head coach is on record as knowing the faults.

Our Grand Strategic Directive is to get into a BCS conference. I do not think our current leadership has this vision, but I do think our head coach does. Our Strategy should be to build an OCS, improve facilities and make us competitive with others fighting for the same thing, such as UCF. I do not think our leadership has this vision either, but our head coach does. I think our Operational objectives should be to win the conference and get invited to a BCS Bowl. I think our current leadership does have this vision and our head coach shares it. I think our Tactics should be to win every single game to achieve our Operational Objectives. I think our current leadership shares this viewpoint, leaving us with the only BUT to the equation: but is our head coach the guy to achieve this tactical objective? Based on his record so far I think it's arguable, but in my opinion the answer is yes.

To do so he must improve on the areas he has said must be improved. The University must give him the ammunition to do the job, for example, an extension, while at the same time protecting itself with a reasonable buyout clause.

To me the significance here is that the head coach is only responsible for two of the four major areas of achievement, the operational and tactical objectives. Even if he does that, wins every game and goes to a BCS game, in the long run will that make our program better without a plan for using that to achieve our long term goal of joining a BCS conference? Only if the leadership plans for such a day and, so far, I have seen no such plans. But I sure hope I'm wrong.

MemphisMike, if you're going to use the "he's better than what we've had in the past" argument, then you should be honest and compare him to all the other coaches in Tiger history and not just the ones after Spook Murphy.

If you want to compare short term success, the team has gone downhill since 2003. The winning percentage, the Sagarin rankings, the defensive production, the attendance at home games, etc. have declined since then. Instead of using the DeAngelo/Danny years as a springboard, the program has regressed.

As for the bowl situation, we've already addressed how the bowl system is no longer a valid criteria for success. When 64 out of 120 teams make a bowl (assuming they've won 6 out of 12 games), it cheapens the bowl experience.

When USM fires Jeff Bower for not winning enough, the arms race has escalated. With Houston Nutt replacing Coach O and the recent success of Croom down in Starkville, the Memphis job has just gotten a lot tougher. We need someone who can raise us above the rest, and I'm not convinced that Tommy is that man. He hasn't even risen to a division title in seven years, much less a conference title. We're 2-6 OOC over the last two years, including 0-6 against Division 1A teams.

Seven years is much longer than most coaches get these days. "Wait till next year" is getting much harder to tolerate each time I hear it.

RandyMc Wrote:

the other Greg Childers Wrote:Why are people hesitant to take an honest look at the program?

Who is not honest? Some think Tommy West is fully capable of leading the program to its potential. Some don't. Months ago, it was discussed. Nothing has changed along that time. You fire the coach...............done that many times before. You upgrade facilities, budgets, etc...................not done that so much. Why not do that? You have tried the other.

It makes no sense to fire the coach when the underlying program is not changed.

All the stuff you posted above just shows that we had two poor seasons. This year was not as bad as the last one. No one is overjoyed about 7-6. You cannot seem to grasp that so why would anyone want to bother with you?

I can guarantee you that the people in charge are 1) pleased we went to a bowl this year; 2) anxious to see additional improvement. I can live with that.

Your only action related to this program is to sit in judgment from a keyboard. You do not go to games. You do not provide any support for fundraising or to the booster groups. That is fine. But don't expect those that do to say "Thank you. You are bringing us to a new realization of what the Utopia should be".

You upgrade the program's infrastructure and then we can talk coaches. Until then, you look like an ass when you start 17 threads wanting the coach fired.

+1

One thing I disagree with TW on is this. He seems to put the brunt of the blame on the DBs. True they may be bad, but IMO the biggest problem is the DLine. We could have deion and mike haynes in their prime and still struggle with that line and linebackers we started this past year.

the other Greg Childers Wrote:... Given the choice between the two, I'd rather we have a great team that makes a bowl.

Since we're going to continue to beat the same horse.....
Everyone would like to have a great team that makes a bowl. No one has said they didn't. There are just differences of opinion as to how to get there. Tommy's shown the ability to provide winning seasons and bowl games like no other coach we've had in the last 50 years. No one is content with our defense, no one. No one is content with losing to SB teams, no one.

When we hired Tommy, our goals were getting to bowl games and having winning records. He's done that.

Now that we've experienced winning and bowls, our expectations are being adjusted. If we've raised the bar, give him a chance to meet those expectations.....but don't let him go while he's doing exactly what he was hired to do ----- get us in bowls and have winning seasons.

Tommy has a 48.2% overall winning percentage. That's ninth in Tiger history, so it's not "better than we had before." We should set our sights higher than 1 game over .500.

He has been coach for seven years and his best finish in conference is third in the division. Don't try to say second in the division. We lost to both UCF and ECU, so we'd be third in a tiebreaker with ECU.

His bowl record is 2-2. The two wins were against Sun Belt champ North Texas and MAC champion Akron. The two losses were blowouts to MAC runner up Bowling Green and Sun Belt champ FAU (who was celebrating their third year as a Division 1A team). None of those four teams could be confused with "great" teams.

Tommy's a "good ole boy." He's personable. Lots of people like him. I get that.

The program has slid since 2003, and next year appears to be another rebuilding year. Hankins will be gone, and QB will be a HUGE question mark. Doss will be gone, and RB will be another HUGE question mark. The defense returns a lot of players, but they were one of the worst squads in recent memory.

Why do we need to go back any further Greg, don't you think 30 years is enough? What exactly does it prove to go back to 1917? Absolutely nothing because the game was different and the number of schools playing were different so your comment on that is without merit. Crap, tell me what schools that "Bic" beat in his 2 years as coach.

And I see how you completely ignored the comparison to Frank Beamer at VA Tech. The situations are very similar whether you admit it or not. We disagree on the direction of the team. I don't think it's as dire as you want to play it out but that's fine. You go right ahead and keep calling for Coach West to be fired. You're entitled to that opinion. I think your wrong and that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it and in doing so it does not mean that I want to "settle for mediocrity" as you want to claim about everyone who doesn't agree with your point. There has to be some underlying cause for all your animosity toward Coach West though. You can't be filled with this much disdain and almost hatred just for losing some football games but that's between you and your conscience.

One question and I think it's a legitimate one, have you let your feelings be known to the Pres and AD at the University? If so, then good for you for standing up for your beliefs. If not, why not? Are you just more comfortable sounding off here on a message board where it will accomplish nothing?

Another thing I'd like to know is if the Tigers under Coach West were to go say 9-3 next season or even 8-4 are you still going to be calling for him to be fired?

WE WERE 6-2 IN THE LEAGUE THIS YEAR. WE WERE TIED FOR SECOND. TW IS THE REASON USM FIRED BOWER. HAD ANYONE BEATEN UCF WE WOULD HAVE TIED FOR FIRST.

PARITY

MemphisMike Wrote:Why do we need to go back any further Greg, don't you think 30 years is enough? What exactly does it prove to go back to 1917? Absolutely nothing because the game was different and the number of schools playing were different so your comment on that is without merit. Crap, tell me what schools that "Bic" beat in his 2 years as coach.

I also went back four years, and the state of the program today is worse than it was then.

MemphisMike Wrote:And I see how you completely ignored the comparison to Frank Beamer at VA Tech. The situations are very similar whether you admit it or not. We disagree on the direction of the team. I don't think it's as dire as you want to play it out but that's fine. You go right ahead and keep calling for Coach West to be fired. You're entitled to that opinion. I think your wrong and that's my opinion and I'm entitled to it and in doing so it does not mean that I want to "settle for mediocrity" as you want to claim about everyone who doesn't agree with your point. There has to be some underlying cause for all your animosity toward Coach West though. You can't be filled with this much disdain and almost hatred just for losing some football games but that's between you and your conscience.

For every Frank Beamer, I can show you a dozen coaches like Ray Goff who were retained too long. My opinion has nothing to do with West personally. I'd say the same thing regardless of who was coaching the team this poorly.

MemphisMike Wrote:One question and I think it's a legitimate one, have you let your feelings be known to the Pres and AD at the University? If so, then good for you for standing up for your beliefs. If not, why not? Are you just more comfortable sounding off here on a message board where it will accomplish nothing?

Another thing I'd like to know is if the Tigers under Coach West were to go say 9-3 next season or even 8-4 are you still going to be calling for him to be fired?

I never got a response from the Pres or the AD, so I guess they're not concerned with my opinion.

As for next year's team without Hankins and Doss, I'd do cartwheels if we could win eight games. With the anemic defense returning and two key skill positions in doubt, it's highly unlikely they'll even match this year's results. They should've won eight or nine this year, but they underachieved. A good team would've gone 10-3 or 11-2 against our schedule.

jetigerman Wrote:WE WERE 6-2 IN THE LEAGUE THIS YEAR. WE WERE TIED FOR SECOND. TW IS THE REASON USM FIRED BOWER. HAD ANYONE BEATEN UCF WE WOULD HAVE TIED FOR FIRST.

PARITY

Do not confuse parity with mediocrity. We lost (in a blowout) to UCF and ECU. According to a tiebreaker, we would be third in the division and fifth in the conference.

Tommy also went 0fer against Coach O. That was really bad.

okay Tigersmm, I get what you are saying. But, I have never said I don't have concerns. I do ineed hav concerns. I also see some positives and feel there is some reason for optimisim. I don't share the sky is falling sentiment of some posters. I am DISGUSTED by the defense. I don't in anyway recognize the defense on the field compared older teams. I don't entirely understand the problem. I saw Hinds play In HS and thought that kid would be a beast in college. Instead he ends his career as an underutilized FB. One could say that Greg never improved because of coaching. ( or the lack of) Yes, also, I have season ticks and go to every away game possible. I love the Tigers and it is a big part of my familys life during the season. I also believe that , as tired an excuse as this is--that JLD era really, really hurt. But, again, that excuse is tired and in mind no longer valid. There comes a point where potential has to meet production.
If the defense can improve a small amount, and the offense can continue to produce, we will be better than we were this year. I honestly think this time next year we will be in a competely different situation than we find ourselves in now.

I do have concerns about the RB and QB, but I also believe there is potential there. Malouf and Hall will get a look. I also thik Hudgens can be good--I DO NOT share the sentiment that he can't play because had some issues. Curtis Steele will be good. The offense is not the problem. Special teams and defense, yuck yuk yuck.
Next year, I EXPECT DRAMATIC IMPROVEMENT.

jetigerman Wrote:WE WERE 6-2 IN THE LEAGUE THIS YEAR. WE WERE TIED FOR SECOND. TW IS THE REASON USM FIRED BOWER. HAD ANYONE BEATEN UCF WE WOULD HAVE TIED FOR FIRST.

PARITY

You were doing OK until you said parity. Yes there were a bunch of upsets this year and many teams are very close but that had nothing to do with us this year unless you consider parity at the bottom of D-1.

CUSA is a poor league and anyone who tries to argue different is foolish. We outscored the worst teams in CUSA to get to New Orleans. Look at the rankings and CUSA teams make up the many of the worst teams in D-1.

You sound like you are satisfied never winning a very bad conference and losing to average to bad nonconf. teams.

At what point do we expect this program to advance beyond the bottom 10-15% of D-1 teams?

I am not advocating get rid of TW.
I am saying that we have to get better and faster players if we want to move up. We have some good players but few on D and not enough on O. Care to argue quality on special teams?

Until today I have not posted one single comment questioning the Direction of this team since our early to midseason collapse. I made that promise and stuck to it. But it is right and proper and even expected at most schools to demand progress.

We only have approx 14 scollies to give this year so every spot needs to be filled with people who can fill needed postions. We have a huge senior class the next two years so we can target every postion on both sides of the ball. The next two years will tell the direction of this program. The job is TWs to keep or lose.

Before anyone explodes. TW says the same thing. He is greatly concerned about our defense and says it has to get fixed. He is great concerned about our special teams play and says it has to get fixed. He has said we needed to get a lot more physical and is trying to find bigger tougher O and D line players. He says we need help at QB. He says we need help at RB.

TW says his first goal was to get to bowl games. We did that. Now it is to win the conference and compete with BCS level teams.

I am only asking to see progress towards the measuring stick that TW has layed down for this team.

We all agree that the facilities need to be upgraded so that we can have an edge in recruiting, or at least not have a lack of facilities used against us in recruiting.

Why isn't this being addressed by Tommy, the athletic department, and the rest of the administration?

Tommy is the head coach, so he should know what we need to be successful. Why isn't he beating the bushes trying to get it? Calipari has gotten just about everything he has asked for. Coach Daron Schoenrock managed to get upgrades for the baseball facilities, which were in worse shape than the football facilities. If Tommy really wants the football program to be successful, why isn't he raising hell about it? It can't be because he's worried about retribution. He's got a guaranteed contract with a hefty buyout clause.

Why hasn't RC done more to upgrade the facilities for the team with the largest budgetary expenditures of the entire athletic program? With the home football attendance dropping each of the last four years, revenue is rapidly decreasing. Why have the AD and the coach put together a completely unattractive home schedule, if not to inflate the record at the expense of season ticket sales? Why isn't RC a more vocal proponent of the football program? Why isn't he championing the drive to get an on-campus stadium built so that the Tigers can go from tenant to landlord?

What does Shirley Raines have against athletics? Her public statement about the on-campus stadium caused a huge public uproar and she was forced to backpedal. Doesn't she realize the positive impact to the rest of the University by having 40-50K fans on campus six or seven weekends each fall?

the other Greg Childers Wrote:

RandyMc Wrote:

the other Greg Childers Wrote:Why are people hesitant to take an honest look at the program?

Who is not honest? Some think Tommy West is fully capable of leading the program to its potential. Some don't. Months ago, it was discussed. Nothing has changed along that time. You fire the coach...............done that many times before. You upgrade facilities, budgets, etc...................not done that so much. Why not do that? You have tried the other.

It makes no sense to fire the coach when the underlying program is not changed.

All the stuff you posted above just shows that we had two poor seasons. This year was not as bad as the last one. No one is overjoyed about 7-6. You cannot seem to grasp that so why would anyone want to bother with you?

I can guarantee you that the people in charge are 1) pleased we went to a bowl this year; 2) anxious to see additional improvement. I can live with that.

Your only action related to this program is to sit in judgment from a keyboard. You do not go to games. You do not provide any support for fundraising or to the booster groups. That is fine. But don't expect those that do to say "Thank you. You are bringing us to a new realization of what the Utopia should be".

You upgrade the program's infrastructure and then we can talk coaches. Until then, you look like an ass when you start 17 threads wanting the coach fired.

If facilities are the difference between a good program and a bad one, why have we lost four consecutive games to Sun Belt teams with worse facilities than we have?

Read to comprehend.

I don't care if we lost to the School For The Blind, I don't see doing the same thing we have done for years. Make the commitment and expect excellence. Otherwise, you are just BEATING A DEAD HORSE. Pete Carroll is not going to be able to make the nag run any faster.

the other Greg Childers Wrote:We all agree that the facilities need to be upgraded so that we can have an edge in recruiting, or at least not have a lack of facilities used against us in recruiting.

Why isn't this being addressed by Tommy, the athletic department, and the rest of the administration?

Tommy is the head coach, so he should know what we need to be successful. Why isn't he beating the bushes trying to get it? Calipari has gotten just about everything he has asked for. Coach Daron Schoenrock managed to get upgrades for the baseball facilities, which were in worse shape than the football facilities. If Tommy really wants the football program to be successful, why isn't he raising hell about it? It can't be because he's worried about retribution. He's got a guaranteed contract with a hefty buyout clause.

Why hasn't RC done more to upgrade the facilities for the team with the largest budgetary expenditures of the entire athletic program? With the home football attendance dropping each of the last four years, revenue is rapidly decreasing. Why have the AD and the coach put together a completely unattractive home schedule, if not to inflate the record at the expense of season ticket sales? Why isn't RC a more vocal proponent of the football program? Why isn't he championing the drive to get an on-campus stadium built so that the Tigers can go from tenant to landlord?

What does Shirley Raines have against athletics? Her public statement about the on-campus stadium caused a huge public uproar and she was forced to backpedal. Doesn't she realize the positive impact to the rest of the University by having 40-50K fans on campus six or seven weekends each fall?

You are beginning to ask the correct questions.

the other Greg Childers Wrote:Will anyone defend Coach Tommy West?

Okay, I'll bite. Murphy's winning percentage for 14 seasons in 67%. Since you have all the GREAT research, what did the first 7 seasons look like versus the 2nd 7 seasons? I'll respond more once I have a response.

RandyMc Wrote:

the other Greg Childers Wrote:

RandyMc Wrote:

the other Greg Childers Wrote:Why are people hesitant to take an honest look at the program?

Who is not honest? Some think Tommy West is fully capable of leading the program to its potential. Some don't. Months ago, it was discussed. Nothing has changed along that time. You fire the coach...............done that many times before. You upgrade facilities, budgets, etc...................not done that so much. Why not do that? You have tried the other.

It makes no sense to fire the coach when the underlying program is not changed.

All the stuff you posted above just shows that we had two poor seasons. This year was not as bad as the last one. No one is overjoyed about 7-6. You cannot seem to grasp that so why would anyone want to bother with you?

I can guarantee you that the people in charge are 1) pleased we went to a bowl this year; 2) anxious to see additional improvement. I can live with that.

Your only action related to this program is to sit in judgment from a keyboard. You do not go to games. You do not provide any support for fundraising or to the booster groups. That is fine. But don't expect those that do to say "Thank you. You are bringing us to a new realization of what the Utopia should be".

You upgrade the program's infrastructure and then we can talk coaches. Until then, you look like an ass when you start 17 threads wanting the coach fired.

If facilities are the difference between a good program and a bad one, why have we lost four consecutive games to Sun Belt teams with worse facilities than we have?

Read to comprehend.

I don't care if we lost to the School For The Blind, I don't see doing the same thing we have done for years. Make the commitment and expect excellence. Otherwise, you are just BEATING A DEAD HORSE. Pete Carroll is not going to be able to make the nag run any faster.

There is a huge difference between losing to Ohio State and losing to Arkansas State. One is expected, while the other is a disgrace. As for making the commitment to excellence, that is exactly what I have been saying not just this season but every season. That was the point of this thread. 7-6 is not excellence, especially against our schedule.

The best way to increase the money rolling in is to excite people enough to buy season tickets.

One way to do this is by winning. They haven't won enough lately to excite the public, so they seriously need to improve the W/L record next year over this year. Anything short of eight or nine wins will probably result in another year where attendance drops. Also, the more you win the more people donate to the program.

A second way to get people to buy season tickets is to put together an attractive home schedule. There are some who say that we should support the Tigers no matter who they play, but in reality it hasn't happened and won't happen. The Tennessee game sells out every time they play here, while the Division 1-AA game barely draws a response at all. It is what it is. Upgrading the schedule is one of the easiest ways to increase season ticket sales. We always have one game that is signed year-by-year. Usually we fill it with a Division 1-AA team. We should try harder to get a (non-SEC) BCS team in here. There are 54 teams (including Notre Dame) that we can go after to upgrade the schedule. It would also give us the added advantages of more national exposure, as well as another selling point for recruiting.

1proudpapa Wrote:

the other Greg Childers Wrote:Will anyone defend Coach Tommy West?

Okay, I'll bite. Murphy's winning percentage for 14 seasons in 67%. Since you have all the GREAT research, what did the first 7 seasons look like versus the 2nd 7 seasons? I'll respond more once I have a response.

Spook Murphy went 48-18-1 in his first seven seasons for a 72.4% winning percentage. He went 43-26 in his second seven seasons for a 62.3% winning percentage.

And his teams were only outscored for the season once in 14 years. His first team allowed two points more than they scored. His other 13 teams all outscored their opponents.

Coach #1: We made a commitment as a football team and a staff that we're gonna work like heck to improve every week, regardless of what people say about us...

Coach #2: We're disappointed in losing the game, but I'm not going to let a loss in a bowl take away from what our senior class has done," "Our seniors have taken our program to a place it's never been. We're awful proud of that. We're awful proud of what they have accomplished. I take my hat off to Florida Atlantic. They did a great job. To be honest, they deserved to win the game. But we're proud of where we are right now. I can't wait to get back out there and start working towards next year."

I think a lot of the problem with how people feel about Tommy is summed up in bold above. He could've just left that sentence out, and things would have been fine. I know that I wasn't proud of where we were...we had just finished getting our backsides handed to us. Of course, we decided that we didn't want to play any more with 6 minutes left anyway...

BTW....Coach #1...That was Phillip Fulmer after BEATING Georgia 35-14 earlier this year.

the other Greg Childers Wrote:

RandyMc Wrote:

the other Greg Childers Wrote:

RandyMc Wrote:

the other Greg Childers Wrote:Why are people hesitant to take an honest look at the program?

Who is not honest? Some think Tommy West is fully capable of leading the program to its potential. Some don't. Months ago, it was discussed. Nothing has changed along that time. You fire the coach...............done that many times before. You upgrade facilities, budgets, etc...................not done that so much. Why not do that? You have tried the other.

It makes no sense to fire the coach when the underlying program is not changed.

All the stuff you posted above just shows that we had two poor seasons. This year was not as bad as the last one. No one is overjoyed about 7-6. You cannot seem to grasp that so why would anyone want to bother with you?

I can guarantee you that the people in charge are 1) pleased we went to a bowl this year; 2) anxious to see additional improvement. I can live with that.

Your only action related to this program is to sit in judgment from a keyboard. You do not go to games. You do not provide any support for fundraising or to the booster groups. That is fine. But don't expect those that do to say "Thank you. You are bringing us to a new realization of what the Utopia should be".

You upgrade the program's infrastructure and then we can talk coaches. Until then, you look like an ass when you start 17 threads wanting the coach fired.

If facilities are the difference between a good program and a bad one, why have we lost four consecutive games to Sun Belt teams with worse facilities than we have?

Read to comprehend.

I don't care if we lost to the School For The Blind, I don't see doing the same thing we have done for years. Make the commitment and expect excellence. Otherwise, you are just BEATING A DEAD HORSE. Pete Carroll is not going to be able to make the nag run any faster.

There is a huge difference between losing to Ohio State and losing to Arkansas State. One is expected, while the other is a disgrace. As for making the commitment to excellence, that is exactly what I have been saying not just this season but every season. That was the point of this thread. 7-6 is not excellence, especially against our schedule.

The best way to increase the money rolling in is to excite people enough to buy season tickets.

One way to do this is by winning. They haven't won enough lately to excite the public, so they seriously need to improve the W/L record next year over this year. Anything short of eight or nine wins will probably result in another year where attendance drops. Also, the more you win the more people donate to the program.

A second way to get people to buy season tickets is to put together an attractive home schedule. There are some who say that we should support the Tigers no matter who they play, but in reality it hasn't happened and won't happen. The Tennessee game sells out every time they play here, while the Division 1-AA game barely draws a response at all. It is what it is. Upgrading the schedule is one of the easiest ways to increase season ticket sales. We always have one game that is signed year-by-year. Usually we fill it with a Division 1-AA team. We should try harder to get a (non-SEC) BCS team in here. There are 54 teams (including Notre Dame) that we can go after to upgrade the schedule. It would also give us the added advantages of more national exposure, as well as another selling point for recruiting.

The beatings will continue until morale is improved..................

The money will come with winning so we need to win to get money. Can you not see the circular reasoning in this?

Keep doing what you have been doing and you will get a similar result. Let's try something we have not done before................but has worked elsewhere. Upgrade facilities and budgets.

You are just arguing to keep your little name at the top of the message board.

RandyMc Wrote:

the other Greg Childers Wrote:

RandyMc Wrote:

the other Greg Childers Wrote:

RandyMc Wrote:

the other Greg Childers Wrote:Why are people hesitant to take an honest look at the program?

Who is not honest? Some think Tommy West is fully capable of leading the program to its potential. Some don't. Months ago, it was discussed. Nothing has changed along that time. You fire the coach...............done that many times before. You upgrade facilities, budgets, etc...................not done that so much. Why not do that? You have tried the other.

It makes no sense to fire the coach when the underlying program is not changed.

All the stuff you posted above just shows that we had two poor seasons. This year was not as bad as the last one. No one is overjoyed about 7-6. You cannot seem to grasp that so why would anyone want to bother with you?

I can guarantee you that the people in charge are 1) pleased we went to a bowl this year; 2) anxious to see additional improvement. I can live with that.

Your only action related to this program is to sit in judgment from a keyboard. You do not go to games. You do not provide any support for fundraising or to the booster groups. That is fine. But don't expect those that do to say "Thank you. You are bringing us to a new realization of what the Utopia should be".

You upgrade the program's infrastructure and then we can talk coaches. Until then, you look like an ass when you start 17 threads wanting the coach fired.

If facilities are the difference between a good program and a bad one, why have we lost four consecutive games to Sun Belt teams with worse facilities than we have?

Read to comprehend.

I don't care if we lost to the School For The Blind, I don't see doing the same thing we have done for years. Make the commitment and expect excellence. Otherwise, you are just BEATING A DEAD HORSE. Pete Carroll is not going to be able to make the nag run any faster.

There is a huge difference between losing to Ohio State and losing to Arkansas State. One is expected, while the other is a disgrace. As for making the commitment to excellence, that is exactly what I have been saying not just this season but every season. That was the point of this thread. 7-6 is not excellence, especially against our schedule.

The best way to increase the money rolling in is to excite people enough to buy season tickets.

One way to do this is by winning. They haven't won enough lately to excite the public, so they seriously need to improve the W/L record next year over this year. Anything short of eight or nine wins will probably result in another year where attendance drops. Also, the more you win the more people donate to the program.

A second way to get people to buy season tickets is to put together an attractive home schedule. There are some who say that we should support the Tigers no matter who they play, but in reality it hasn't happened and won't happen. The Tennessee game sells out every time they play here, while the Division 1-AA game barely draws a response at all. It is what it is. Upgrading the schedule is one of the easiest ways to increase season ticket sales. We always have one game that is signed year-by-year. Usually we fill it with a Division 1-AA team. We should try harder to get a (non-SEC) BCS team in here. There are 54 teams (including Notre Dame) that we can go after to upgrade the schedule. It would also give us the added advantages of more national exposure, as well as another selling point for recruiting.

The beatings will continue until morale is improved..................

The money will come with winning so we need to win to get money. Can you not see the circular reasoning in this?

Keep doing what you have been doing and you will get a similar result. Let's try something we have not done before................but has worked elsewhere. Upgrade facilities and budgets.

You are just arguing to keep your little name at the top of the message board.

we went 1-3 with this schedule....

so how does losing to 2 Sun Belt teams and one of the worst Ole Miss team in their history help raise money for facilities?