Quote:This is a trend you're going to start seeing. Both BYU and Utah approached Hawaii to get on our 2006 schedule. Hawaii declined. Hawaii is working OT to land Pac-10 teams as all WAC schools should.

We declined because they wanted us to play a road game this year which we just could not do...normally if BYU offered us a home and home, we'd still take it.

I think San Diego State is happy where they are..

Anyhoo..Here is the official nvspuds conference expansion scenario...

I say the WAC should extend invitations to Davis, Pacific and, drum roll a school to help out poor old La Tech with travel. My first suggestion would be Arkansas State, but either LA LA ot La Monroe would work too. I will use ASU as my example

ASU would be admitted as an all sports member right away. The plusses are geography for La Tech and NMSU, a very nice basketball facility and a 30 thousand seat football stadium. They also play baseball and the WAC could use more baseball schools.

Davis and Pacific would be admitted for all sports except football for a period of THREE YEARS only. Then they would either come on board as a full member or go on their merry way..By that time Davis will have their stadium expansion done. Pacific already has a 30 thousand seat stadium and may be convinced to resume football with several traditional rivals just a short car trip away to help fill the stadium..Pacific has a WAC quality basketball program already. Davis can get there fairly soon. Both schools play baseball in moderately warm weather sites..

Until Davis and Pacific got up to speed on football the WAC would have an unbalanced football schedule with 10 schools but it would also get every school another game.

The schools would break into two divisions.

In the East

Boise
Idaho
USU
NMSU
LaTech
Arkansas State

The West

Hawaii
SJSU
Fresno
Pacific
Nevada
Davis

I know there are a jillion ifs involved in my delirious plan but it's summer and there is not much to talk about. Rip away, you won't hurt my feelings..

nvspuds Wrote:I think San Diego State is happy where they are..

Anyhoo..Here is the official nvspuds conference expansion scenario...

I say the WAC should extend invitations to Davis, Pacific and, drum roll a school to help out poor old La Tech with travel. My first suggestion would be Arkansas State, but either LA LA ot La Monroe would work too. I will use ASU as my example

ASU would be admitted as an all sports member right away. The plusses are geography for La Tech and NMSU, a very nice basketball facility and a 30 thousand seat football stadium. They also play baseball and the WAC could use more baseball schools.

Davis and Pacific would be admitted for all sports except football for a period of THREE YEARS only. Then they would either come on board as a full member or go on their merry way..By that time Davis will have their stadium expansion done. Pacific already has a 30 thousand seat stadium and may be convinced to resume football with several traditional rivals just a short car trip away to help fill the stadium..Pacific has a WAC quality basketball program already. Davis can get there fairly soon. Both schools play baseball in moderately warm weather sites..

Until Davis and Pacific got up to speed on football the WAC would have an unbalanced football schedule with 10 schools but it would also get every school another game.

The schools would break into two divisions.

In the East

Boise
Idaho
USU
NMSU
LaTech
Arkansas State

The West

Hawaii
SJSU
Fresno
Pacific
Nevada
Davis

I know there are a jillion ifs involved in my delirious plan but it's summer and there is not much to talk about. Rip away, you won't hurt my feelings..

Actually, I think that those are fairly realistic thoughts for a message board poster. There is a lot of truth to what you are saying. I think the trend among fans have been to move westward and almost forget about La Tech. If La Tech can give the WAC some surety that they're staying and will not move to another conference, despite the offer, then I think the WAC can invest in their loyalty by adding the likes of Arkansas St. On the other hand, if they don't slit their wrists and make a promise with their blood, then the WAC needs to invest in geographic proximity.

There are more than a few holes in my logic here.. For instance Arkansas State may not be all that interested in joining the WAC. Pacific may decide that they are not interested in reviving football.

I would like to see Pacific in the WAC though..When they dropped football they had just lost or were losing their traditional rivals Fresno and SJSU to the WAC. Long Beach had already dropped football.

The landscape has changed considerably since then. Fresno would bring huge numbers to a football game in Stockton. Nevada would travel very well there. Boise brings lots of fans wherever they go. Davis is very close as is SJSU. Football could work in Stockton again. The facilities are in place. The stadium has been maintained because they use it for soccer..

Two UC schools and 2 Cal State schools right in the heart of the state would help all the schools who recruit in California.

nvspuds Wrote:There are more than a few holes in my logic here.. For instance Arkansas State may not be all that interested in joining the WAC. Pacific may decide that they are not interested in reviving football.

I would like to see Pacific in the WAC though..When they dropped football they had just lost or were losing their traditional rivals Fresno and SJSU to the WAC. Long Beach had already dropped football.

The landscape has changed considerably since then. Fresno would bring huge numbers to a football game in Stockton. Nevada would travel very well there. Boise brings lots of fans wherever they go. Davis is very close as is SJSU. Football could work in Stockton again. The facilities are in place. The stadium has been maintained because they use it for soccer..

Two UC schools and 2 Cal State schools right in the heart of the state would help all the schools who recruit in California.

I'm quite sure that Pacific is a nondenominational private school, not a UC school. You make good points, however.

I don't know about the Home-and-homes with BYU anymore WACFAN.

Herman Frazier wants to ink a 7 or 8 year home-and-home with UNLV solely because Sam Boyd is a major financial contributor to UH Athletics.

It's bad business to waste "two" spots on MWC teams.

If we have to appease Sam Boyd, then play UNLV only... and at UNLV only. Bringing them to Hawaii does not peak interest or excitement and there's "no" chance of "National" exposure.

nwp Wrote:Some day Montana may move up to D1A, if 45% of the fans want to move to the WAC, the question becomes how many of the big dollar Montana boosters do not?. If some of the big bucks get on board then the Montana A.D and President would probably get much more serious about the WAC.
Personally for me, Montana is just another potential snowy and cold football game in the Fall. We already have USU, Nevada and Boise that can have snow in the Fall. I would much rather see California warm temperature schools, UCD and Sac State start working quicker on getting the groundwork set to get into the WAC. I'd rather wear shorts than thermals to a game. Plus as a Nevada fan, it will be a short road trip. Nevada has a history with UCD, even when they were D2 and Nevada was D1-AA, they would hold their own in football.UCD has always had their share of players they have put in the pros.

From what I've read, the single biggest reason that Montana doesn't want to move to D-1A is the fact that they get a lot of their best players as transfers from D-1A programs. Since Montana isn't D-1A, they don't have to sit out a year if they transfer to Montana. Montana's fans and administration worry that if they went to D1-A, they would lose these transfers and their program would go downhill.

My guess is that if the NCAA changed that rule, Montana would be looking to move to D1A sooner rather than later. There would be virtually no reason to stay in the Big Sky if that happened. If it doesn't, then it's a lot more questionable. If they continue their recent run of success in basketball, there may be pressure to get out of the Big Sky, since I can't imagine that the Big Sky would ever receive more than one bid. However, with Krystkowiak gone, it's unclear whether their success will continue. And if the WAC can get a few BCS bids and/or more NCAA tournament shares, the boost that WAC membership could give to Montana's athletic budget might also be a draw.

In short, I can imagine some scenarios where Montana might want to join the WAC, but I don't see it happening in the immediate future.

Pacific would make a great WAC school - but their president has stated fairly strongly they are not bringing back FB.

UC-Davis will probably be a great candidate - in a few years - but not now. They are not ready for D1A - in attendance, in facilities, or in budget (unless they are willing to drop some sports to allow for ramping up BB and FB).

As for a travel partner for La Tech - with all due respect to the blue dawgs - they need to find a southern or eastern home, and the WAC needs to stay a western conference. The old WAC (the recently deceased version) split largely because the east-west split was too big to overcome school and fan differences and the huge travel budgets. The really old WAC (pre-MWC) split for a similar reason - too hard to maintain critical rivalries (and really huge travel budgets).

Montana would be great - but they aren't coming.

I say the WAC should be patient and wait. Way too early to expand. A logical candidate will emerge.

Besides - we haven't even had a chance to get up a good hate for anybody yet ;-)

UOP is happy being the only private in the Big West, a big recruiting advantage. They also like to play in the said conference as it only takes a bus to get to all conference members. If UOP brought back football it would be I-AA.

Quote:Herman Frazier wants to ink a 7 or 8 year home-and-home with UNLV solely because Sam Boyd is a major financial contributor to UH Athletics.

It's bad business to waste "two" spots on MWC teams.

If we have to appease Sam Boyd, then play UNLV only... and at UNLV only. Bringing them to Hawaii does not peak interest or excitement and there's "no" chance of "National" exposure.

The UNLV deal was the epitome of bad business decision making. Sam Boyd doesn't donate nearly enough money to contribute for the loss of 4 home games. They signed the deal so that Herman could approach them for the practice field naming rights--but that's not a guarantee. If he fails to closes the deal then the UNLV home and home thing will be an absolute debacle. As or fight now, it's all "win" for UNLV and "lose" for us. Unless Sam Boyd decides to give us money that ranges in the 5-7 million range, we are going to lose big money over this.

BYU is actually a good business decision because they are one of a handful of schools that can actually sell out the stadium.

I agree WACFAN.

BYU is the "only" MWC team worth playing.

...and this UNLV stuff is just a bad dream. ...or just a bad Athletic Director.

Herman's an idiot and needs to go.

I wonder if Tomey would leave his coaching job to take our AD spot?

I heard Pacific dropped football and won't bring it back because of the professors that always complain about spending too much money on athletics instead of academics.

aggiefansince83 Wrote:I heard Pacific dropped football and won't bring it back because of the professors that always complain about spending too much money on athletics instead of academics.

I watched this as it happened. Pacific dropped FB because of the following series of events:

- Fresno St., Cal St.-Fullerton, Long Beach St., San Diego St., San Jose St., and Pacific had a nice little FB league until the SuckDogs left for independence. This led to USU and the NewMags coming in, however, so hurray for USU's basketball scheduling problem being solved.

- Fresno St. left the league for remarriage to the SuckDogs.

- Long Beach and Fullerton both dropped FB.

- Vegas and San Jose joined the WAC-16.

This left Pacific with a league involving the Idaho schools, Nevada, the two Ag schools, and whoever of the then Southern Indies could afford the travel out west. Since the program was hemmoragging (sp, I know) money and they hadn't won for decades, they decided to close up shop, notwithstanding they had one of the more storied programs and famous FB venues in the region.

In other words, look to the now MWC schools for the reason for UOP FB's demise: they don't predate UOP's CA neighbors (SJS and FS and Vegas), maybe UOP can hold on, especially after Nevada made the jump to D-1A.

The southern Cal States were doomed. Nothing could save them.

jediwarrior Wrote:I agree WACFAN.

BYU is the "only" MWC team worth playing.

I would welcome a return of the "Tong Wars" on a semi-regular basis, say two out of every four years, with Utah State taking up the other two. Those are the only two current WAC teams with which BYU has any longstanding relationship.

Sadly, the reality is that I doubt it will happen, more than once in a blue moon. For that, blame the BcS. The BcS selection algorithms give no bonus points for playing an extra game on the islands. It's just one more chance to lose, as BYU disastrously discovered in 2001. That really takes a lot of benefit out of scheduling another game, in order to play in Honolulu.

If that ever changes, I suspect you'll see more Tong Wars. Until then, sadly, we shouldn't hold our breaths.

nvspuds Wrote:I think San Diego State is happy where they are..

Anyhoo..Here is the official nvspuds conference expansion scenario...

I say the WAC should extend invitations to Davis, Pacific and, drum roll a school to help out poor old La Tech with travel. My first suggestion would be Arkansas State, but either LA LA ot La Monroe would work too. I will use ASU as my example

ASU would be admitted as an all sports member right away. The plusses are geography for La Tech and NMSU, a very nice basketball facility and a 30 thousand seat football stadium. They also play baseball and the WAC could use more baseball schools.

Davis and Pacific would be admitted for all sports except football for a period of THREE YEARS only. Then they would either come on board as a full member or go on their merry way..By that time Davis will have their stadium expansion done. Pacific already has a 30 thousand seat stadium and may be convinced to resume football with several traditional rivals just a short car trip away to help fill the stadium..Pacific has a WAC quality basketball program already. Davis can get there fairly soon. Both schools play baseball in moderately warm weather sites..

Until Davis and Pacific got up to speed on football the WAC would have an unbalanced football schedule with 10 schools but it would also get every school another game.

The schools would break into two divisions.

In the East

Boise
Idaho
USU
NMSU
LaTech
Arkansas State

The West

Hawaii
SJSU
Fresno
Pacific
Nevada
Davis

I know there are a jillion ifs involved in my delirious plan but it's summer and there is not much to talk about. Rip away, you won't hurt my feelings..

Interesting idea. You're right that it will probably never happen, but it's still fun to speculate about.

I'm a little leery of adding an eastern team as a travel partner for La. Tech mainly because if one of the eastern schools leaves the conference in the future, then we have the same problem that we do now. But if we did add a eastern team and we were willing to consider non-D1A teams on a provisional basis, I wonder if there's any chance that we could get Western Kentucky to join the WAC. WKU is one of the top mid-major basketball programs in the country; they contend for an NCAA bid nearly every year. However, they've complained about the fact that it's virtually impossible to earn an at-large bid in the Sun Belt, and they've been lobbying to join the MVC to help their basketball program. It's enough to make me wonder if they would consider an invitation to the WAC.

The big problem, aside from geography, is that they don't play D-1A football. They have a very solid D-1AA team (national champions in 2002, if I"m not mistaken), but they're still not D-1A. I have no idea whether they would ever consider moving up to D-1A or if they have the facilities and budget to consider such a move. But while we're tossing out wild and crazy ideas during the summer...

Mr. Green Wrote:UOP is happy being the only private in the Big West, a big recruiting advantage. They also like to play in the said conference as it only takes a bus to get to all conference members. If UOP brought back football it would be I-AA.

Well, as I understand it, Pacific never "dropped" football. Their regents didn't vote to discontinue it; they merely decided to "temporally suspend" the program. Admittedly, I don't think they have any interest in bringing it back any time soon.

If they would get enough revenue from WAC membership to offset the additional costs of reviving football, I think they would at least be willing to consider the idea. That's far from certain, however. (Pacific would presumably earn revenue from football, and the WAC pays out a lot more than the Big West, but football is also a very expensive sport.)

In even bigger question, in my mind, is whether Pacific brings enough to the table to justify adding them. The WAC already has schools in the Bay Area and the central valley, and we might expand into Sacramento as well. The additional market penetration that the conference would get from a school in Stockton would be minimal. And if they are in the process of resurrecting football, it's probably safe to assume that their football program would struggle for a while, and I'm really not sure the conference needs another struggling football program. The only possible reason for adding Pacific is their basketball team. And while they have a solid program, they're not exactly Gonzaga. Unless they make the NCAA tournament on an annual basis, it's unlikely that they will earn enough revenue for the conference to justify having to share the conference pie with another member, and I think that might be too much to hope for.

So just what would it take to get UCD and Sac State ready for the WAC right now? If it's money, more football scholarships and more sports to comply with WAC standards, they need a plan to raise the funding now, not later. Both schools need to get serious about the WAC. If Idaho can play football in the Kibbie Dome, then Sac State could play on campus or move the game to Hughes Stadium. So could UCD on a interim basis until both of them have a suitable stadium, I think Hughes stadium is only about 12 to 15 miles from Davis and would be a easy trip from Davis . Run buses for free for the fans and students. They may lack in attendance numbers now, but hopefully their fans would embrace the move to D1 football and show up. Granted both would probably take their lumps in football, but tell that to Stanford after the UCD game last year. Both are D1 in basketball already. I only bring this up because sooner or later the conference realignment dance will start again and the WAC could need immediate partners. I'm sure Benson knows this and has an expansion plan, it's just not shared.

One thing to consider about Pacific bringing back football is that they just hired former Stanford AD Ted Leland as an administrator. The current president at UOP is against re-instating football. But were he to retire Leland could be a probable successor. Leland's rep for running arguably the best athletic dept in the country could be the credibility needed to convince the faculty and governing board at UOP that football should be given a second chance.


One of the selling points for UCD moving to DI was that we'd be in a conf with 3 other UC's. The big west also invited UCD to join before we had decided to move DI. I think it would be bad form for davis jump ship too quickly from the big west. Even though almost all aggie fans would like to play the schools in the WAC instead of the BW, our administration probably doesn't want to be rude to the presidents of the BW schools who've helped us during the transition. So unless the football team miracuoulsly pulls off some major upsets each of the next few years, any move for UCD is at least 5 years off.

nwp Wrote:So just what would it take to get UCD and Sac State ready for the WAC right now? If it's money, more football scholarships and more sports to comply with WAC standards, they need a plan to raise the funding now, not later. Both schools need to get serious about the WAC.

Actually Sac St (20) and Davis (26) both sponsor more sports than most schools in the WAC. UCD is not yet a member of the Big West but already has an athletic budget larger than any BW school. The biggest problem with both schools is not money or scholarships, its attendance.

Sac's gym is one of the smallest in DI and funding was approved for a new one. But the arena has been separated from the planned student center and no specific time is set for its construction. The football stadium isn't pretty but holds ~23k. It averaged over 25k/day during the 2000 olympic trials but that was with temporary luxury seating. The attendance records set by the olympic trials and the rivercats show Sacramento has huge potential, but neither UCD or Sac have been able to tap into it yet. Having big time college football come to town would be the cure to all of that.

UCD's new stadium won't be complete til next spring and will seat between 12-18k (nobody really knows at this point). a second phase is planned to expand to 30k but there's no timetable on that. UCD also has no lights for baseball, softball, and soccer but has a nice soccer/baseball complex which seats ~3k for baseball and ~2k for soccer. UCD also has the largest pool in the UC system and has seating for almost 2k at the tennis center.

OrneryAggie - Great info on both schools. Thanks.

How does your "future" schedule look as far as D-1a schools are concerned? I know you're scheduled to play SJSU next year which is good.

It'll be a good gauge to determine where you are currently.

Sac State plays Boise this year...and it could get ugly.