No I didn't get them confused, I am positive, they had a picture of your players holding up a trophy. I know what I read in Sports Illistrated. Maybe you have improved since then on your grad rates, apparently so, good for you.

You guys have had great coaches so have we. Ever hear of a guy named Pat Dye?? College Football Hall of Fame coach won a title at Auburn.


On recruiting

The average star ratings, you were barley ahead of us in 2004 when we had a head coach the whole year. Your beloved scout.com Boise State 1.96 average for 25 recruits. ECU 1.87 for 30 recruits.

On rivals in 2004 we had an average star rating of 2.18 ofr 28 commits you had 2.07 for 27!!! Again we were 1-11 you were 12-1

Also that does not include our partial Qualifiers that included a 4 star guy Brandon Setzer who originaly commited to NC State and a couple of 3 star guys in that commited to UNC Quenton Cotton and Marcus Hands. We really had a loaded class in 2004. They are listed as signing with UNC and NCSU, but they are on our roster :)

sdbronco Wrote:"BTW on your numbers the average star ratings, you were barley ahead of us in 2004 when we had a head coach the whole year. Your beloved scout.com Boise State 1.96 average for 25 recruits. ECU 1.87 for 30 recruits. "

What the hell are you looking at.  Look at Scout.com 2005.  it is 2.57 we only took 14 this year.

Must I prove this also?

link
<a href='http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=336&p=9&c=14&yr=2005' target='_blank'>scout average ranking</a>

think click on Avg. Rat.

It will resort them for you.  (it doesn't re-number them so you have to count)  it lists 25 per page.

I'll do the same on rivals for you.  give me a few minutes.

We fired our head coach, I don't think it is exactly fair to judge a coach that only had one month to recruit. All the guys we had commited 8 total under him ended up signing else where, one at Tennesse and another at Virginia Tech. If you want to compare atleast do it when we had a coach that was able to recruit all year. 2002 and 2004 are such years. 2003 and 2005 classes we fired head coachs and the other coach had a month to land a class.

So yeah look up 2004 to be fair you guys were top 15 then as well and we had a worse record.


Like this guy isn't even listed as commiting to us

<a href='http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=47&p=8&c=1&nid=983592' target='_blank'>http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=47&p=8&c=1&nid=983592</a>

or this guy

<a href='http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=47&p=8&c=1&nid=251815' target='_blank'>http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=47&p=8&c=1&nid=251815</a>

They commited to them early but didn't get in an have since came to ECU and gotten their grades up.

There are a couple of more studs not listed as well, Cotton and JJ Millbrook expected to play this year.

Why did you use 2004 numbers? you just like to argue don't you. The more BSU wins the better the recruiting gets.

The 2005 number is 2.57

BSU is getting better every year.

IMOHO BSU is the only non-BCS school that is at or near the point of reloading every year and not rebuilding.
2004 was BSU's rebuilding year (only returned a few starters on each side of the ball) and we both know how that went. They return 17-18 this year and should return even more next year.

:)

2005 rivals

average player rankings

BSU=2.44
Fresno=2.16
ECU=2.0

Rivals doesn't let you sort by Avg. Player ranking but I'm sure the results are similar.

I'm not getting on you personally dude, but your garabage is the same stuff we hear a lot. It comes mostly from fans of teams that don't play BSU and don't play any teams that play BSU.

The only reason I show you these recruiting numbers is because you were saying that we weren't in a hotbed of talent here and couldn't possibly field the type of talent that they can in the east because the talent pool was too small.

Well the pool in the west has a lot less fishing in it.

The top teams in the pac10+BSU+Fresno+Utah+BYU are the ones getting most of the west coast talent. How many teams above the non-BCS schools fight over the talent before the eastern non-BCS get any that is left?

:)

"So yeah look up 2004 to be fair you guys were top 15 then as well and we had a worse record.


Like this guy isn't even listed as commiting to us

<a href='http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=47&p=8&c=1&nid=983592' target='_blank'>http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=47&p=8&c=1&nid=983592</a>

or this guy

<a href='http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=47&p=8&c=1&nid=251815' target='_blank'>http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=47&p=8&c=1&nid=251815</a>

They commited to them early but didn't get in an have since came to ECU and gotten their grades up.

There are a couple of more studs not listed as well, Cotton and JJ Millbrook expected to play this "


Yes, we have several of those kind of players that weren't listed as well.

Didn't I tell you that a Pirate shouldn't get into a Pecker contest with a Bronco.
:laugh:

When BSU started winning in 1A we didn't have near the talent that we do now.
We had to start winning with less talent than everyone in the WAC (We had the bottom recruiting class), and now the talent is coming. It gets better every year. It will soon start to ge scarey.

So if ECU can start winning with less talent for a while the recruits will come. They may even come on Holtz name alone. We didn't have that. BSU had to earn everything they have ever gotten. One more reason I'm proud to be a Bronco.

:D

sdbronco Wrote:Why did you use 2004 numbers?&nbsp; you just like to argue don't you.

Not at all I just think it is unfair to judge a guy on one month of recruiting. 2004 is much more fair and with the guys that are on our roster now we would have easily been around top 50-60 in 2004 and have been top 50 in the past.

We have a top 25 best QB coming out of High school on the roster currently, he is just a freshman this year. In 2000 we got a guy from the Elite 11 QB camp and have had very highly ranked classes in the past.

There are 5 classes worth of football players on a team. 5..... not one. You guys haven't exactly been bowling everyone over with sup 70 recruiting classes over the last 4 and 5 years. You can rave about the one this year but while everyone was signing 25 and 30 and you guys got 14, that will catch up with you in the end. Last time I checked football was a violent sport in which people got hurt often, and it takes at least 22 to play. BTW just look at your top 14 compared to many others top 14 :) not much difference. The only difference is they have about 14 other guys at 1 and 2 star bringing there average down, but supplying 12-14 more bodies and depth that you don't have. Signing 14 is nothing to brag about.

Look at it with any schools top 14 compared to your only 14 and you might even be lower than 72.

you say ECU............. has a talent rating of 1.83 by scout.


For example if you only take our top 14 (which is a low number for you to be braging about) and factor in the 3... 3 star that are on our roster but are mistakenly listed as not commiting to us that gives us

5..............3 stars
11............2 stars

a 2.64 average


and then we have another 10.... 2 stars and... 2.... 1 star guys.... to get in the weight room with coming into next years class.

which class would you rather have??

That is why scout.com ranks them by other criteria, and you were #73 by there rankings we were #85 with out some big time top 30 in there position recruits they missed as commiting to us but should actually be factored into this class.

Fair enough, I think you can look at BSU and judge for yourselfwhat those recruiting classes have done.

Most of last years team was sophomores and freshman (2nd youngest team in 1A for 2004) 2005 is the start of the future. I'll put money that next years class is even better.

This years team is still going to be very young veterans (mostly sophomores and Juniors) Next year they will be mostly Jrs and Seniors. The ones being recruited in 2004,2005 and 2006 will be the ones that replace those leaving seniors.

In other words: BSU's talent level is consistanly going up as seniors are leaving.

I think soon I'm going to graph out BSU's recruits compared to other mid majors and look for trends.

Just for argument's sake please tell me which non-bcs FB teams you think is or will be better than BSU in the near future.

"you say ECU............. has a talent rating of 1.83 by scout.


For example if you only take our top 14 (which is a low number for you to be braging about) and factor in the 3... 3 star that are on our roster but are mistakenly listed as not commiting to us that gives us

5..............3 stars
11............2 stars

a 2.79 average


and then we have another 10.... 2 stars and... 2.... 1 star guys.... to get in the weight room with coming into next years class.

which class would you rather have??

That is why scout.com ranks them by other criteria, and you were #73 by there rankings.


That is stupid math. It also leaves us with less low quality players and more schollies to give to higher quality recruits next year and the year after.

BSU's team is very balanced, we have several former walk ons earning schollies and will not be recruity 25-30 in one year anytime soon.

So you're saying that your's is better if you only take part of it to compare. That is really reaching now. If I only take BSU's top half to compare it would also be higher. DUH

BSU 2005 =2 four stars, 4 three stars, 8 two stars.

Give up, would ya :laugh:

Okay, I'm sure we are both getting tired.

Just get to your point and tell me whith non-BCS teams you think would beat BSU?

Or has a better program.

Here is my top 25 non BCS teams (we did this on the MWC board already today)


1) Boise State
2) Fresno State
3) Bowling Green
4) Utah (gets a pass until proven otherwise)
5) Miami (OH)
6) Toledo
7) Utep
8) Wyoming
9) BYU (Should see a big jump in performance this year)
10) UNM
11) Memphis
12) Nevada (my pick for surprise team in WAC)
13) UAB
14) TCU
15) AFA
16) CSU
17) La Tech
18) Troy
19) SDSU
20) Marshall
21) Northern Illinois
22) Tulsa (was like UTEP in 2003 and beat UTEP last Year, scared BSU)
23) Akron
24) UNLV
25) Hawaii (won't play in a bowl this year) (lost too much/tough schedule

I screwed up it was 2.64 average actually. The main point is Recruiting services really mean very little in reality but your 14 talented players is no better than say our top 14 or San Deigo States top 14.

Using all of your 85 scholorships is very important to the health of your program. What are you saving them for, you can only sign 25 unless players transfer or drop out.

You guys will probably continue to beat up on nobodies and be spanked by the Arkansas and Georgia's of the world when you finally play them.


As far as the stronges non BCS schools, I think BYU will be back and are clearly the hands down best non BCS program, they average 60K fans a game now anyway and have a national championship. Utah will be a force as well.

We will be back our support is already still better than yours for a 1-11 team. I think this year we will be back up around 40k in attendance and get it turned back around.

S. Miss will always be good. Fresno has the fan support and facilites as well.

sdbronco Wrote:Okay, I'm sure we are both getting tired.

Just get to your point and tell me whith non-BCS teams you think would beat BSU?

Or has a better program.

Here is my top 25 non BCS teams (we did this on the MWC board already today)


1) Boise State
2) Fresno State
3) Bowling Green
4) Utah (gets a pass until proven otherwise)
5) Miami (OH)
6) Toledo
7) Utep
8) Wyoming
9) BYU (Should see a big jump in performance this year)
10) UNM
11) Memphis
12) Nevada (my pick for surprise team in WAC)
13) UAB
14) TCU
15) AFA
16) CSU
17) La Tech
18) Troy
19) SDSU
20) Marshall
21) Northern Illinois
22) Tulsa (was like UTEP in 2003 and beat UTEP last Year, scared BSU)
23) Akron
24) UNLV
25) Hawaii (won't play in a bowl this year) (lost too much/tough schedule

Is that only for one year?? how the heck are you going to judge a program by one year?


-I think BYU will be back and are clearly the hands down best non BCS program, they average 60K fans a game now anyway great facilites numorus legit top 25's. They deserve the BCS bid.

-Utah will be a force as well for the same reason, although the fans support is not much better than ours

-ECU will be back, our support is already still better than yours for a 1-11 team. I think this year we will be back up around 40k in attendance and get it turned back around.

-S. Miss have done it and will always be good

-Fresno has the fan support and facilites as well.

Boise will continue to beat no ones and really play no one

"Using all of your 85 scholorships is very important to the health of your program. What are you saving them for, you can only sign 25 unless players transfer or drop out."

We are using all 85 schollies.



"You guys will probably continue to beat up on nobodies and be spanked by the Arkansas and Georgia's of the world when you finally play them. "

If you consider all of the rest of the non-BCS nobodies. We do play UGA next year. I think it will be a good game. If we lose big you can say HA HA. But save it tell then.



"As far as the stronges non BCS schools, I think BYU will be back and are clearly the hands down best non BCS program, they average 60K fans a game now anyway and have a national championship. Utah will be a force as well.

We will be back our support is already still better than yours for a 1-11 team. I think this year we will be back up around 40k in attendance and get it turned back around.

S. Miss will always be good. Fresno has the fan support and facilites as well."

BSU stadium only holds 30K and it is almost already sold out for all of next year. (sold out all of last year as well) Will be going to 45-50K soon with room to go to 60K

Stadium expansion and many other things are already in the works. (broke ground on a new indoor practice facility 2 weeks ago.) You just don't know much of which you speak.

Quick link please check it out. It will educate you a little as to what is up at BSU.



<a href='http://www.broncosports.com/athletic_excellence.asp' target='_blank'>BSU cool stuff</a>

When I talk about the quality of a program I am thinking of Quality of product on the field.

If you think Fresno will beat BSU this year that's ok. They have been predicted by the "experts" to do it every year since BSU has been in the WAC. Just ask them how that's working for them so far.

What else do you want to know?

[QUOTE]IMOHO BSU is the only non-BCS school that is at or near the point of reloading every year and not rebuilding.[QUOTE]

Do you really beleive that SD? Now I know you have owned us the last few years, but Fresno State appears to on a roll with the Reloading thing as well, if we didn't would we be up at the top of the Non BCS polls year in, year out?

Oh and IMHO, the whole recruit ratings and stars thing is BS. Once the USC's and UCLA's of the world are done getting the cream of the crop, the leftovers are pretty much comparable accross the board I would say. Coaching is the difference as evidenced by Hawkins and Hill (in every game except for the BSU game every year).

"Is that only for one year?? how the heck are you going to judge a program by one year?


-I think BYU will be back and are clearly the hands down best non BCS program, they average 60K fans a game now anyway great facilites numorus legit top 25's. They deserve the BCS bid.

This is laughable. I like BYU but if they deserve a BCS it isn't now, may have at points in the past but this is the real world.

If they are so great then why did BSU (who never plays anyone) go 2-0 against them the last 2 years?

"-Utah will be a force as well for the same reason, although the fans support is not much better than ours

Let's see.... Utah lost most of it's coaching staff, it's QB and much of their talent. Should be good but not where they have been the last 2 years.

Utah had a good run the last 2 years, BSU also swept the last series they had with Utah.


-ECU will be back, our support is already still better than yours for a 1-11 team. I think this year we will be back up around 40k in attendance and get it turned back around.

That sounds like the same chatter coming from every other team in the bottom 50.
Show something before making such bold predictions.

-S. Miss have done it and will always be good

-Fresno has the fan support and facilites as well.

Boise will continue to beat no ones and really play no one

Agree S. Miss is good, so is Fresno.

BSU has beaten every team on that list the last time we played them except for S. Miss whom we have never (to the best of my memory) ever played. If BSU and S.Miss were to play this year, I can tell you who the favorite would be though.


:)

NDD,

Yes I beleive that or I wouldn't have written it. If I remember correctly I put an IMOHO in front of that quote. That means In My Own Humble Opinion. (so by definiton it is just that)

I do however think that FSU is #2 for non-BCS schools currently (in that area). 2002 was not a banner year for the dogs. Personally I think you guys are in a little trouble next year (but I'll reserve judgement on that until next year). If you can't get it done this year against BSU, I think it will be at least 2 more years (again JMOHO). 2004 was your best chance for a while (I beleive).

I think the Dogs are much more up and down than the Broncos from week to week as well as from year to year. I can't imagine any evidence that you could provide that would change my mind but I'm willing to listen. If you have some that you would like to share, I would be more than happy to take a look at it.

To compare when was BSU's last down year, in your opinion?

If I have sounded to you like I disrespect the Dogs you are incorrect. They are my #2 team.

Look I will be the first to tell you stuff happens and you can fall from grace pretty quick so I wouldn't be to quick to run my mouth. I think the overall health of the program can be judged by long term factors, fans support, history, and facilities. As far as BYU has fallen they still only lost to you guys by 1 point last year that should tell you something. They are clearly the premiere non BCS school and always have been.

When I said you play nobodies I didn't say teams not in the BCS were no bodies. Clearly teams like BYU, Utah, Colorado State, S. Miss are great programs, better than many BCS teams. We have been there as well over the last 15 years.

Artist renderings are nice, but until you have a place that seats 50K and have actually gotten 50K at the gates before, that really means nothing. Heck we are already at that point with our program (drew over 50K for NC State in 1999, and over 42,000 average attendance in 1999), and we have plans to add more seating in the future, until it gets done it is just a picture an artist drew and nothing more. The future can change on you fast.


And like I have said all along beat someone of substance, other than a 7-5 Oregon State team and an overated TCU team and a couple of pretty decent Fresno teams. Until you start laying out the Georgia's and Washington's you can't make that claim when teams like BYU and Colorado State have been doing if for years and you have never done it.

"Look I will be the first to tell you stuff happens and you can fall from grace pretty quick so I wouldn't be to quick to run my mouth."

It was you who first ran your mouth.

"I think the overall health of the program can be judged by long term factors, fans support, history, and facilities.

Agreed comrad Joneser

" As far as BYU has fallen they still only lost to you guys by 1 point last year that should tell you something. They are clearly the premiere non BCS school and always have been.

I told you that last year was the worst BSU team in a while.

Pop Quiz Joneser: How many did BSU beat them by the year before?

" When I said you play nobodies I didn't say teams not in the BCS were no bodies.

Then who are these nobodies you are refering to?

Clearly teams like BYU, Utah, Colorado State, S. Miss are great programs, better than many BCS teams. We have been there as well over the last 15 years.

Been where as well? Who are you talking to? I thought we weren't there (according to you)

I agree those are all good teams/great programs

Artist renderings are nice, but until you have a place that seats 50K and have actually gotten 50K at the gates before, that really means nothing. Heck are already at that point with our program (drew over 50K for NC State in 1999, and over 42,000 average attendance in 1999), and we have plans to add more seating in the future, until it gets done it is just a picture an artist drew and nothing more. The future can change on you fast.

You are correct there. But it is as credible as You Saying that ECU is going to make a comeback soon.

Wouldn't you agree?

(let's wait to see which happens first, I know where my money is)

:)

sdbronco Wrote:You are correct there. But it is as credible as You Saying that ECU is going to make a comeback soon.

Wouldn't you agree?
:)

Yeah I can tell you I bet ECU and BYU fans didn't think we would be where we are at this moment as recently as 4 years ago, things can change pretty quick. In 2001 we were pre-season top 25 and went 6-6 and to a bowl we lost all 6 games by a touchdown or less to 6 bowl teams. That started our downslide. Just remember predictions can be wrong and outside factors can bring you down. I will not go into ours but they are legit.

Bottom line though is if you build the brick an mortor stuff like facilities and have done it in the past chances are you will get back and do it again.

Every team has slumps and losing season even the best names in the game like USC and Oklahoma's have had losing teams in the last 10 years. Fresno's BYU's everyone!!

You guys just haven't been around long enough for it to really catch you yet but it will. It wasn't that long ago (less than 10 years ago) you guys were 2-10 and 4-7 and we were goin 9-3 and 8-4.

Just remember that. Im going to bed.