The unofficial online home for fans of the Kent State University Golden Flashes. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

I hope that Dean Pees has not heard "it's time to win" so much (I Know, from me, too) that we compromise our standards. Pees deserves credit for running a clean program with few discipline problems. Maybe that's why we don't have the talent to win, but we are seldom embarassed about what we'll do for success.

This Elam deal is stretching our standards. I remember this case clearly, and the details are about as ugly as you could imagine. ( ND diidn't even wait for the arrest. After interviewing the three players involved, they stated "what they admitted to doing was bad enough" before tossing them from the school.) The "holding her down" admission was the deal breaker. If I'm going to be critical of programs like Marshall and UCF for loooking the other way on judgement to get talent, I can't hold us to a different standards.

I dunno, On one hand, I HOPE tihs kid has learned his lesson and does move on to a productive life. On the other hand, if he wasn't a ND player facing a St. Josephs' County jury he'd probably be in the Indiana prison system by now. So, his status has already given him a second chance most would not get.
At any rate, I hope we know what we're doing.

<a href='http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/7683964.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/7683964.htm</a>

I agree with you on this one FlashFan. As a proud conservative with very high standards, I have very little tolerance for this kind of behavior. Having been a fan of the Irish for many years, I believe Notre Dame did the right thing by kicking the kid out of school. If a school like Notre Dame can

Remember two things:

1. The Lord says to forgive.
2. Gates came to Kent after having problems at all kinds of schools.

Quote:1. The Lord says to forgive.

Sure can't argue with that. Selfishly, I suupose, my concern is more about Kent's program and reputation. It's good for him and all of us if Elam gets his life turned around. But it's fine with me if he does this somewhere else if it is one of a chain of events that causes us to be perceived as the next, oh, say, Marshall. ( BTW, a Herd poster proudly claimed that the other player involved with eligibility left ended up at Marshall and they were happy to welcome him. I don't know if this is true. The third fool was only a month away from graduation, but still got tossed.)

Quote:Gates came to Kent after having problems at all kinds of schools

He did. But he wasn't a felon. There are mistakes and there are MISTAKES. Gates could not cut it academically at MSU and ran into a beef over team rules at EMU. (Gates claimed he didn't even break one, but failed to turn someone in. That's his story.) These are much different than being involved in a nasty gang rape. I have no problem with Kent offering second chances, nobody is perfect. I can get over accepting someone being canned for smoking some pot. I can get over Wauford losing his temper. But, IMO we've lowered the bar significanty on this one.

I read this in the ABJ yesterday and to say the least, was not too pleased. There are second chances and guys like this should end up at Marshall, not Kent. I am guessing that Pees has him on a very,very short leash. Theft, drugs are one thing, but rape... Ugh.

I really hope that Pees knows what he is doing here. I am not sure that this will help a lot with recruiting. I think that it is a mistake. Let's hope it's not a big one.

Because of his track record, I'm willing to give Pees the benefit of the doubt for a while on this one. But I have a lot of doubt. I trust he has more personal knowledge of the guy and opinions from others he trusts who know him. I will be very angry if this is a football decision only and will let my voice get heard to the proper KSU folks if this proves to be a mistake. We shall see. We may not have a good football record in wins and losses, but we've always done things the right way since Dean Pees was hired. That's the only reason he gets a very conditional and temporary pass on this one.
And this is not even remotely comparable to Antonio Gates in any way. Gates turned out to be an excellent citizen and a great rep for the university. He just wasn't ready for big time college athletics when he was younger. By the time he got to Kent, he had his head on right.

I'm gonna play devils advocate here.

I do not know any of the alleged details but people need to remember that he was found NOT GUILTY by a jury. If he's truely innocent don't you think he has paid enough? I work with some ND grads and they say a strict reading of the ND rules of conduct say sex of any kind can get you kicked out. So if they admitted to consensual sex that alone could get you thrown out of school.

I agree wholeheartedly about the allegations being terrible and rape being the worst crime short of murder but he's paid for his actions, was found not guilty and this is his chance to right an alleged wrong.

Pees is a close to 60 years old with no history of running afoul of any NCAA rules so lets give him the benefit of the doubt and hope everything works out.

I agree.

If the guy was found "Not-Guilty" in a US court of law then he can move on with his life.
I did note something a bit unusual about the BJ article; the article mentioned that he
would only have one year of eligibility left; seems odd that Pee's would bring this kid in
for only one year, given the situation.........


Speaking of Antonio Gates, he was at the OU basketball game Saturday watching his
good friends at Kent continue the winning tradition!!!!!!

He was found guilty...he was the only one of the four convicted on lesser charges ( more serious charges were dropped. ) One guy was found not guitly of rape and the others were not charged. And, I don't think for a second that if Elam was not a promising Irish player but instead a street kid from Gary "visiting" South Bend that the outcome would have been much different. ND is much tougher on its players than the local nutty fans tend to be.

It's pretty sordid...but here is an article including an account of the situation. Warning: it's a bit natsy.
<a href='http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/stories/2002-05-24-notre-dame-charge.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/foo...dame-charge.htm</a>


Anyway, Abram is ours now. And I agree with all of you. I hope Dean would not ruin his good reputation at this point (what a note to go out on!) and Abram has turned around and becomes a productive person.
But this deal sure doesn't make me proud.

After reading the report, I can no longer agree with Pees' decision to allow Elam to become a member of his program. Others will argue that there is another side to the story, but from what I have just read, it doesn't matter to me. Maybe Elam should get a second chance somewhere. I just don't want it to be at Kent.

I just wonder what Pees was told that made him believe that Elam was now worthy of a place on his team.

The reason why I have not gotten involved in the political discussions on the MAC Board is for fear of alienating myself from my fellow posters. However, I will just say that character does matter and leave it at that.

Elam IMO is not the kind of person that Kent needs no matter how gifted he is as an athlete.

I know that others will not agree with me on this issue, but I will never change my values just to make a partcular situation convenient for my purposes.

Noticed this decision isn't going over too well on campus, either.

<a href='http://www.stater.kent.edu/stories_old/04spring/21604/UNIVER%7E1.ASP' target='_blank'>http://www.stater.kent.edu/stories_old/04s.../UNIVER%7E1.ASP</a>

There are kids expelled/suspended everyday for all kinds of illegal activities and as usual no one cares. And many times these people are given second chances eventually. The article is the typical view that students have of student athletes ... thinking that we get all the breaks and special treatment. From firsthand experience, at Kent that is not true. In many cases you are better off not letting teachers, cops know you are a football player because many of them will use it against you and not help you. At the beginning of a new semester with a new teacher I would not let it be known that I was a player until I established myself as a good student ... just to be sure. Then they would be surprised when I was, and hopefully I changed their views.

One girl says in this article "If I was to go out and sell drugs with a full-ride scholarship, I wouldn

FIDO,

In case no one has said this before, thank you for playing football at Kent State. I mean it. Thank you. I imagine this meant that you were really at Kent to do something you loved and had to work extremely hard to compete and get an education. Most don't realize that the "season" never really stops for DI athletes and honing their gifts takes an enormous amoint of time and dedication. Plus, at Kent, there is not a lot of glory playing football, so you didn't even get the intinsic rewards that might be available at other schools. So, the best I can say is "thanks."

I am one of the Kent State alumns that does not like the Elam deal at all. Why? One consistent thing that about Kent State sports has been the personal character of its athletes. I am sure you will offer exceptions, but generally we have been treated to outstanding examples of student athletes (Trevor Huffman and Demetric Shaw come to mind due to their high profiles, but I am sure there are many others.)
There have been very few public emabrrassments until late, which means at the minimum most just worked hard and behaved themselves. We didn't seem to make faustain deals to "win" that other schools have, one in particular from our conference. The Elam deal seems to me a step in the wrong direction. I won't argue someone doesn't desreve a second chance. I will argue that it doesn't need to be at Kent State. On this we agree. Abram is ours now, so we just have to hope it works out.

The admission of Elam also puts our policies in question. How can we have a policy that states if one is convicted of a felony while eligible, the scholarship and eligiblity ends (which I agree with) yet at the same time recruit someone WITH a felony conviction and make them eligible? It will take a while to explain that one to me.

Flashfan, your're welcome. It really means alot to me that you understand and care about what we do at Kent. Everything you say about my experience there is true. It may not have been as rewarding in wins and championships like other schools, but it was a priceless experience. I had a wonderful time and would not trade it for anything. I and we may not have met our ultimate goals that I had when beginning school (mac champs, bowl, consistent starter, all-mac, etc) but I ended up not only a better fb player but more importantly a better person, personally and professionally for my career. There are things I gained as a FB player that you cannot get as a normal college student, and I am thankful for that opportunity.

As for Elam again, I also do not understand the situation of admitting a convicted felon, but expelling one that is enrolled and then is convicted. I am not the one to explain it to you. I pray that this is not an issue and he can finish his eligibility and move on with his life.

FIDO Wrote:I pray that this is not an issue and he can finish his eligibility and move on with his life.

FIDO, my prayers are also with Josh and his family. Until this matter is resolved, it is the only thing that we can do.

BTW, I also appreciate you as a former student-athlete and now as a KSU alumnus.

I look forward to reading your comments on this board.