(04-26-2017 05:16 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 03:28 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 03:11 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:48 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I just don't think anyone can say with a straight face that Dayton or VCU has no chance. I think on the court success means something. If VCU has rattled off 6 more years(to make it 13)- of making the NCAA tourney- they're going to be tough to dismiss. I'm of the mind that it's not just going to be the Big East's decision. Fox or whoever will have a big say in that. And if VCU and Dayton are by far the 2 best options, and lets say SLU and especially Richmond continue to sputter- and Fox wants 12- to say Dayton or VCU has no chance is wrong, very wrong.

I respect your opinion, Stever. I just don't see VCU ever being in the Big East. If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. The C7 had the choice to create a conference with a Private/Public mix when it reorganized. It didn't. It had the opportunity to add a strong program at the time, coming off a Final Four appearance, and it didn't. Today, it still has the opportunity to add VCU, and there isn't a single shred of evidence to support they are even under consideration long-term.

The time to add VCU was in 2013 - with Shaka Smart, off of a Final Four appearance, and fresh off the renovations they made with Siegel. The fact they chose three Private/Jesuit schools, also with strong men's basketball programs, should have been enough of an example to show what Fox and the Presidents were thinking. If the Big East was to add a public school, they would do so with the likes of a UConn (which isn't happening, but I'm stilling using it as an example).

I'm not saying your train of thought is wrong, just that it isn't aligned with how the BE Presidents/Fox have been shown to thinking.

The thing is, some folks want to act like there's absolutely no chance of it happening. If Fox determines they need more teams in the conference to continue, and VCU is the only program around outside worth anything, how wouldn't VCU be an option?

And the thing that would be interesting. If UConn did come around, would VCU at that point be close to an automatic add(if they've maintained where they are)?

The thing with VCU was in 2013, they were in really only year 3 of their run(and 1st really good regular season). So a lot more of a flash in the pan thought with them.

I just think if Fox decides they must have expansion, where the options are at that point will factor big time. IF SLU hasn't turned things around, they aren't getting in. Big East isn't adding a dreg.

Why would VCU be the only program, in your mind, worth anything? Because of their basketball success? Saint Louis has a bigger market, a larger athletics program, better academics and is an institutional fit. Dayton has an almost identical market to Richmond, but averages more at home games, and hosts the First Four every year. Dayton also has as strong and as well-rounded athletics program as VCU, but - again - is an institutional fit (which VCU is not).

Athletic success, for a majority of programs, is fickle and unpredictable. Even in down years, a program needs to provide value to the conference. For a comparison's sake, Rutgers was not added to the B1G for football strength. It was added as an institutional fit, academic and geographic fit. IMO, SLU and Dayton would add more value to the Big East than VCU would.

But SLU and Dayton can't be struggling. Right now perception wise, Big East would get absolutely murdered if they brought in SLU for instance.

Also you say SLU has more sports than VCU does. True, but it's 20-19. So some larger athletic program.

And if we get 6 years from now and VCU is still keeping on, that would be 13 years straight- with at least 3 coaches of making the tourney. SLU would need to be at least where Dayton is right now, and Dayton would need to match that. It is about adding the right teams...

Oh, and if UConn is added, how would fit matter then? I think the second UConn is added, VCU is right there as well.