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If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
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BewareThePhog Offline
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Post: #141
RE:If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-31-2013 07:43 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(07-31-2013 02:19 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  
(07-31-2013 07:43 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(07-27-2013 08:13 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(07-27-2013 10:18 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I think the window of UT-austin entertaining independence is done.

They got stuck with the kids in the divorce and now there are 3 TX schools (all with sizable followings in the legislature) that are completely and totally dependent on them and only them for their survival as P5 schools because no other P5 conference will even entertain the idea of adding any of them without UT also (and most wouldn't take them even then).

The only realistic scenario available to UT for moving at this point is to convince one of the conferences to take the politically inseparable package of UT/OU/OSU/TT...and IMO only the PAC would open to taking that group. By saving the public school parasite, UT can make the case for ditching the two smaller private school parasites.

I also think the B12 is stuck at 10 teams for similar reasons; no school in the remaining Plains States want to be in a separate division from TX and OK.

The Big 12 is standing in a relatively fragile spot within the Big 5. When they get their new division and when they have "security council" control of it, are the four conferences with more programs than the
big 12 going to vote in stipulations based on the number of conference members in regards to things like forming up divisions? If we see four divisions starting up and even possibly a conference tournament based on division winners, will the Big 12 still end up missing out on that?

It is possible that the other four conference might attempt to force their hand to either expand with programs that aren't exactly desired or to break apart the Big 12 and move into the other four conferences.

I mean, why wouldn't the SEC, ACC, B1G and PAC do that to the Big 12? The Big 12, following their current method, is absolutely the odd man out and they keep tossing wood on the fire every time they talk about how their current set up allows them to make more money individually than anyone else. Why would the other four conferences allow them a conference tournament of four team when they only have ten teams to lead up to that with?


In regards to 10th's comment, if the above happens as I am surmising, there is no way that the PAC will end up being able to cherry pick UT/OU/OSU/TTU. That is an outdated concept and when some of those schools start seeing their other options, Texas will once again show just how much it doesnt wish to go West. Just my opinion of course.
I'm not quite sure what would entice the B1G, SEC, PAC, and ACC to force expansion or a breakup on the Big 12 simply because they are structured differently or because they currently have a lucrative contract.

In terms of expansion, I suppose if there was the potential for a breakaway of the top level and a few more schools had to be let on the bus to alleviate political pressure, the other conferences could force through expansion on the Big 12 since it has the fewest schools (and thus more slots) by mandating minimum conference membership. But otherwise I don't see why they would force them to expand. For everyone who argues that it's unfair for the Big 12 champion not to be exposed to a potential upset in a CCG, there's someone who argues that the lack of a CCG will deflate the Big 12's SoS to the point that they'd be excluded.

In terms of breakup, I'd think the primary motivation there would be to grab up valuable properties. But that opportunity has been there for several years, and the Big 12 schools have been seen as either unattractive on their own merits or politically or contractually unappealing due to 3rd tier deals (e.g. LHN) or issues with partner schools (e.g. OU/OSU).

It wouldn't surprise me to see the power conferences take a wait and see approach and see how things play out over the next decade (both for the sake of seeing how business and current realignment works out, as well as getting close to the GoR expiration) before making a move, rather than trying to force anything on the Big 12 in the interim.

Hey, another quality poster coming around to our secret hide out! 04-rock

Why would those four conferences do that? I think the answer to that is because when the new Division is created, they will finally have the power to install new rules for themselves and that has always been what is necessary in order to change the rule for divisions within a conference and for adding an addition week in order to have a conference tournament instead of just a championship.

With the ability to actually do all of this, that is when a major play could be made. With verifiable evidence, thanks to the commissioners themselves, that they are all sitting in on meetings together we can then surmise all kinds of things that they are likely talking about. One subject I would assume they talk about is what they can do after they have all this new power.

For you, I will go through each individual school in order to see what you think.

Texas's major hangup is the LHN. That is not a problem in the ACC. Also, if they get a Notre Dame deal they wont be able to take part in the ACC Tournament. Is that a big deal for Texas though? They are one of those brands that with a strong season they will get into an eight team national tournament with or without being part of any conference tournament.

Oklahoma's problem as you put it is being separated from State. I differ from most people when it comes to these Big Brother/Little Brother situations. I think States will stop one school from leaving the conference in a weakened state for the other school to have to survive in. I think it is a much different situation should one school be leaving for a major conference and the other school leaves for another major conference that is seen as an equal. If Oklahoma goes Big Ten and OSU goes SEC then that is absolutely the case. Why should the State of Oklahoma care? They can still preserve the Bedlam Series as a protected OOC match up. As an Iowa fan I can assure you that an OOC rivalry can be just as meaningful.

The above would also answer the Kansas/Kansas State issue. Kansas would get in on the Big Ten Network while KSU would get in on the PAC Network. That makes them more money combined than both of them being on the same Network. When a State looks at that, that is a positive. Once again, an OOC rivalry game can be maintained.

I know JR still likes to consider a Northeastern school for the Big Ten but nothing up there is ready or worthy, especially when the combo of Kansas and Oklahoma is potentially possible. Two major brands, one for basketball and one for football. The Big Ten just scored a major win in terms of Markets with Maryland and Rutgers. They dont need another market based expansion. They need brands.

OSU and WVU fit the mold perfectly for the SEC. They both have growing rabid fanbases. They both make great money and both are actively expanding their facilities. Also they both round out two potential divisions in wonderful fashion.

A major roadblock would be Texas giving up enough concession to Texas Tech in order to get them to go along. First would be a protected rivalry game. What else they might have to give in on who knows. Texas Tech though would be well served by the PAC Network as well as would Iowa State. Texas Tech would likely be the top program in it's new four team division which gets it out from the shadow of Texas while still leveraging themselves into a permanent rivalry game with Texas out of conference. When one slips out of the fan mentality and into CEO mentality, one can see how that situation would be fantastic for Tech.


I have no idea if this is happening, but if this Division 1 thing happens then this kind of scenario may very well be the big discussion topic behind the scenes. Perhaps it would already be figured out.
Thanks (and thanks JRSec as well). It's good to see some of the more thoughtful posters (referring to you guys, not patting myself on the back) on the overall board are still congregating. 04-cheers

I wholly agree with your premise regarding the OU/OSU, KU/KSU, and perhaps UT/TT/Others in terms of minimizing political pressure by ensuring that everyone has a safe landing spot, even if they aren't together. I definitely think that is viable.

Some of the recent speculation I've seen regarding KU plus one other such as UCONN going to the B1G, without any other movement occurring from the Big 12, does not seem as viable. Setting the GoR aside, I think in that instance the Kansas legislature wouldn't be keen on the split, even if UT and OU appeared to be staying in place and keeping the Big 12 otherwise intact. It still seems to me that in order for Big 12 dissolution to occur, it'd have to be done with a fairly well coordinated set of moves, and I'm not sure Slive, Delany, and Scott are quite at that stage right now.
08-01-2013 04:09 PM
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Messages In This Thread
RE:If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - BewareThePhog - 08-01-2013 04:09 PM
SEC Expansion - vandiver49 - 10-11-2013, 08:43 AM
RE: If the SEC did expand - 10thMountain - 05-02-2014, 02:49 PM
RE: B12 - jhawkmvp - 05-02-2014, 11:00 PM
RE: - Transic_nyc - 11-04-2014, 02:34 AM
schools making profits - jhawkmvp - 11-12-2014, 12:32 AM
RE: expansion - oliveandblue - 12-03-2014, 12:41 AM
My wild guess - jhawkmvp - 12-09-2014, 12:39 AM
RE: - Transic_nyc - 12-25-2014, 11:04 PM
RE: If the SEC did expand... - Transic_nyc - 09-19-2015, 01:41 AM
RE - Transic_nyc - 10-21-2017, 03:15 AM
RE: - Transic_nyc - 10-21-2017, 06:35 PM
RE: ? - Transic_nyc - 10-22-2017, 01:02 AM
RE: If the SEC did expand... - Transic_nyc - 03-05-2018, 11:46 AM
RE: If ... - Transic_nyc - 12-18-2020, 01:45 AM
RE: - Transic_nyc - 01-26-2021, 10:59 AM
RE: If - Transic_nyc - 01-27-2021, 12:58 AM
RE: If - Transic_nyc - 03-07-2021, 02:25 PM
RE: If ... - Transic_nyc - 03-09-2021, 06:34 AM



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