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If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
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XLance Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(05-16-2014 08:14 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-16-2014 07:47 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-15-2014 09:36 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-15-2014 09:12 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-15-2014 08:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  And at this point 4 x 16 would be a reasonable way to end things, if it can be pulled off, and I'm not yet convinced of that. If Texas goes PAC with Texas Tech it will be interesting to see how things wrap up. Who do you think the ACC will get in that and why? My concerns will be that the SEC and Big 10 will distance themselves from the ACC and PAC and that the disparity there will only lead to more instability in the future. I felt strongly that the ACC needed Texas to at least bring a bit more parity in income.

Notre Dame and Vanderbilt. West Virginia goes to the SEC to take Vandy's spot.
ESPN will market the ACC and the SEC together.
ESPN gains a piece of the PAC network or at least broadcast rights in a large part of the country.

You're just trolling now. There's no way in hell we're giving up our top academic leader to take the last place team in the whole P5 in academics. But I couldn't believe that you guys took the second worst in the P5.
The SEC is not in the position that the ACC finds itself in. Maybe I could see it if we were landing Oklahoma and Kansas and West Virginia was a work around of some kind. But I would think that Oklahoma travels West with Texas. And I can't see the SEC giving up Vanderbilt unless we were getting something from the ACC in return. If Slive ever pulled a trade for Baylor, Oklahoma State, and West Virginia and gave up Vanderbilt to do it he will have destroyed the legacy that he has so carefully tried to craft and would piss off Florida in the process.

I don't think anyone will be happy with this solution except the ACC. It would mean that the Big 10 was looking at Kansas and Iowa State or Kansas and Connecticut. That'll make the Buckeyes and Wolverines furious. Texas by itself to the PAC with Kansas State, and Oklahoma State and Texas Tech won't please Stanford and Cal too much. Baylor, Oklahoma, and West Virginia would be a big meh! to the SEC fans and the loss of Vanderbilt would tick off our academics. A crappy compromise is all I see. But I would celebrate one thing with you, the full inclusion of Notre Dame.

SEC fit?
For the sake of comparison, the numbers for current SEC stadiums are as follows:



Rank School Football Stadium Capacity
1 Tennessee 102,455
2 Alabama 101,821
3 Georgia 92,746
4 LSU 92,542
5 Florida 88,548
6 Auburn 87,541
7 S. Carolina 80,250
8 Arkansas 76,000
9 Kentucky 67,606
10 Ole Miss 60,580
11 Miss. State 55,082
12 Vanderbilt 39,790


* All told, the 12 SEC stadiums feature a combined seating capacity of 944,871.

* The average stadium size in the SEC is 78,739. Take out Vanderbilt and the average jumps to 82,280.
From Mr. SEC

This Category: Academic Fit

Why: Because the SEC has a definite “type” of school and that similarity helps bind it together. For our purposes, we’ll look at whether or not the 35 schools on our list are an academic fit with the SEC’s 12 current schools. And we’ll do this by studying a number of different factors.

US News and World Report’s 2012 rankings help to give a general idea of a school’s academic reputation. Total enrollment is considered. Ditto whether or not a school is private or a major, public university. We’ll look at religious affiliation as well as the size of the city in which each school is located.

To find the academic fits out there, we first had to identify the SEC’s profile. And here’s what that profile is (not counting soon-to-be-member Texas A&M):



* A public institution. Vanderbilt is the SEC’s only private school.

* A school with an average total enrollment of about 27,000 students (typically with a lesser emphasis on post-graduate studies and research).

* A school ranked somewhere between #58 (Florida) and #157 (Mississippi State). Vanderbilt ranks #17, but it’s certainly not the norm in the SEC. Note also that while presidents would love to nab a school ranked highly (meaning a school with a superb reputation), those schools aren’t likely to jump to Slive’s league. Call it the “halo effect.” School presidents want to associate with other top-name institutions in order to improve their own school’s reputation (and donations).

* A school with no religious affiliation. Not a single SEC school is tied to a church.

* A school in a somewhat rural area. With the exception of Vanderbilt, no SEC school is located in a city with more than 300,000 inhabitants. This “one-horse town” factor is one reason SEC fans are so passionate about their schools’ athletic exploits. With the exception of Nashville, there are no SEC towns featuring major league teams. There are no “commuter” schools.
Again from Mr. SEC

For the sake of comparison, here are the facts and figures for the SEC’s current roster of universities:



School US News & World Report ’12 Rank Total Enrollment Private or Public Religious Affiliation City of 300,000 An SEC Fit?
Alabama 75 30,127 Public None No PERFECT
Arkansas 132 21,405 Public None No PERFECT
Auburn 82 25,078 Public None No PERFECT
Florida 58 49,827 Public None No PERFECT
Georgia 62 34,677 Public None No PERFECT
Kentucky 124 27,108 Public None No PERFECT
LSU 128 29,451 Public None No PERFECT
Miss. State 157 19,644 Public None No PERFECT
Ole Miss 143 17,085 Public None No PERFECT
S. Carolina 111 29,597 Public None No PERFECT
Tennessee 101 30,312 Public None No PERFECT
Vanderbilt 17 12,714 Private None Yes NO


* As you can see, 11 of the SEC’s 12 institutions are very, very similar. It’s not hard to spot the league’s overall profile.

* Not surprisingly, Texas A&M will fit the SEC profile perfectly. And if Missouri joins the league, MU will be a perfect academic fit as well.

Your top academic leader does not fit the profile of your own conference. Trolling? Just the facts, ma'am, just the facts!

Mr. SEC is a pro football guy from the North. But truly, the issue here is Vanderbilt is a charter member. Now true enough Tulane and Georgia Tech (one private and an exclusive city based public) did leave on their own volition. But Vanderbilt has stayed. But now to your theory Oklahoma or Oklahoma State fit. West Virginia may fit by numbers, but they certainly don't match the mean even minus Vanderbilt and that was what prompted the trolling comment. And while I like Baylor for various reasons, they don't match that profile either! But, the SEC needs one private to maintain a reason not to have total disclosure.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I am saying that if the division broke down this way it is not going to be popular in the SEC. I do think it would be profitable, just not popular.

I also don't expect the move to be totally popular in the ACC. Above the state of South Carolina I think they'll be happy as clams, but south of North Carolina they will be fuming. If this leads to a merger at some point there is logic. In the merging of markets for the network it works.

The best thing I can say about it is this. Baylor does not have Tigers as mascots and they wear green. The SEC is long on tigers and red teams. West Virginia on a dark night might only be confused for Missouri until they get a good look at the helmets. If we lose the ugly Vanderbilt mascot with his Big Ugly Head, we won't miss the Commodore for long because Pistol Pete is even uglier. Even if T. Boone puts all of us in his will it will still be hard to swallow even if on their own Oklahoma State is really okay.

JR, when you mentioned that Tulane and Georgia Tech left, you forgot to mention Sewanee-The University of the South (which also was a charter member of the SEC).
BTW, below South Carolina (the state), there is a school in Atlanta, that would be the happiest of all of the ACC schools, should Vanderbilt join the ACC.
And since you brought up that the SEC was long on red.....did you know that a few years ago South Carolina changed the shade of red they wore to exactly the same as Alabama and Arkansas? You have three schools whose team color is identical.....talk about togetherness or whatever.
The ACC does have some big headed mascots (Dook, Wake Forest, the Cavalier, an Orange, and an Ibis....we wouldn't even notice one more.
At least Pistol Pete has a moustache.
05-27-2014 04:25 PM
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Messages In This Thread
SEC Expansion - vandiver49 - 10-11-2013, 08:43 AM
RE: If the SEC did expand - 10thMountain - 05-02-2014, 02:49 PM
RE: B12 - jhawkmvp - 05-02-2014, 11:00 PM
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why? - XLance - 05-27-2014 04:25 PM
RE: - Transic_nyc - 11-04-2014, 02:34 AM
schools making profits - jhawkmvp - 11-12-2014, 12:32 AM
RE: expansion - oliveandblue - 12-03-2014, 12:41 AM
My wild guess - jhawkmvp - 12-09-2014, 12:39 AM
RE: - Transic_nyc - 12-25-2014, 11:04 PM
RE: If the SEC did expand... - Transic_nyc - 09-19-2015, 01:41 AM
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RE: - Transic_nyc - 10-21-2017, 06:35 PM
RE: ? - Transic_nyc - 10-22-2017, 01:02 AM
RE: If the SEC did expand... - Transic_nyc - 03-05-2018, 11:46 AM
RE: If ... - Transic_nyc - 12-18-2020, 01:45 AM
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RE: If - Transic_nyc - 01-27-2021, 12:58 AM
RE: If - Transic_nyc - 03-07-2021, 02:25 PM
RE: If ... - Transic_nyc - 03-09-2021, 06:34 AM



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