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Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #1
Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
After adding Oral Roberts for 2012, and Houston Baptist for 2013, looks like the Southland is going to add three more: Incarnate Word, Abilene Christian, and New Orleans.

http://www.caller.com/news/2012/may/24/s...expansion/

Quote:The league, which also awarded the 2013 volleyball championship to Corpus Christi during the meeting, will have officials make campus visits to Abilene Christian, Incarnate Word and the University of New Orleans. The Southland had presentations from four institutions — the three that were awarded visits and Texas-Pan American — in its search to keep pace with the constant conference shuffling.

UT Arlington, UTSA and Texas State all will leave the league after this spring season is complete. Oral Roberts will join for next year, bringing the conference to 10 teams for a year, as the league will scrap its division format in basketball for at least a season. Houston Baptist will become a Southland member the following year, making it 11 teams.

The only reason IMHO the Southland would go to 14 members is because it expects to lose two or four other members shortly. Going to 12 would be reasonable, but 14?

Could the WAC actually be looking at not only Lamar, but Sam Houston, SF Austin, and McNeese St, too?


This recent articles from Lake Charles is comparing McNeese St favorably to ULM, Arkansas St, North Texas, and Troy.

http://www.americanpress.com/McNeese-get...tic-budget

Quote:McNeese’s athletic budget is dwarfed by that of conference leader Texas State, which had more than $21 million in revenue and $20 million in expenses. Texas State will be moving to the Western Athletic Conference this summer along with Texas-Arlington and Texas-San Antonio. Texas State and UTA will join the Sun Belt Conference in 2013 while UTSA will join Conference USA. ...

One of the biggest boons to McNeese’s funding has been ticket revenue.
USA Today’s report showed McNeese was the Southland Conference leader in ticket revenue in 2011, pulling in $1,241,827. Lamar was the only other school in the league to surpass the $1 million threshold in ticket revenue. ...

In terms of ticket revenue, McNeese, a Football Championship Subdivision school, is on par with or better than Football Bowl Subdivision schools in the Sun Belt and Mid-American Conferences. Former Southland and current FBS members Arkansas State, Troy, North Texas and Louisiana-Monroe all made less in ticket sales than McNeese in 2011.
05-27-2012 01:53 PM
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1845 Bear Offline
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
(05-27-2012 01:53 PM)NoDak Wrote:  After adding Oral Roberts for 2012, and Houston Baptist for 2013, looks like the Southland is going to add three more: Incarnate Word, Abilene Christian, and New Orleans.

http://www.caller.com/news/2012/may/24/s...expansion/

Quote:The league, which also awarded the 2013 volleyball championship to Corpus Christi during the meeting, will have officials make campus visits to Abilene Christian, Incarnate Word and the University of New Orleans. The Southland had presentations from four institutions — the three that were awarded visits and Texas-Pan American — in its search to keep pace with the constant conference shuffling.

UT Arlington, UTSA and Texas State all will leave the league after this spring season is complete. Oral Roberts will join for next year, bringing the conference to 10 teams for a year, as the league will scrap its division format in basketball for at least a season. Houston Baptist will become a Southland member the following year, making it 11 teams.

The only reason IMHO the Southland would go to 14 members is because it expects to lose two or four other members shortly. Going to 12 would be reasonable, but 14?

Could the WAC actually be looking at not only Lamar, but Sam Houston, SF Austin, and McNeese St, too?


This recent articles from Lake Charles is comparing McNeese St favorably to ULM, Arkansas St, North Texas, and Troy.

http://www.americanpress.com/McNeese-get...tic-budget

Quote:McNeese’s athletic budget is dwarfed by that of conference leader Texas State, which had more than $21 million in revenue and $20 million in expenses. Texas State will be moving to the Western Athletic Conference this summer along with Texas-Arlington and Texas-San Antonio. Texas State and UTA will join the Sun Belt Conference in 2013 while UTSA will join Conference USA. ...

One of the biggest boons to McNeese’s funding has been ticket revenue.
USA Today’s report showed McNeese was the Southland Conference leader in ticket revenue in 2011, pulling in $1,241,827. Lamar was the only other school in the league to surpass the $1 million threshold in ticket revenue. ...

In terms of ticket revenue, McNeese, a Football Championship Subdivision school, is on par with or better than Football Bowl Subdivision schools in the Sun Belt and Mid-American Conferences. Former Southland and current FBS members Arkansas State, Troy, North Texas and Louisiana-Monroe all made less in ticket sales than McNeese in 2011.

I'd be surprised if the WAC had the cache to add anyone now but if they raided the SLC thats the only place I could see it working.
05-27-2012 01:56 PM
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FloridaJag Offline
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
Do you think the WAC might take Central Arkansas as well?
05-27-2012 02:24 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
WAC has one thing in Cache that trumps a LOT of things. 3 letters- FBS.

SLC wouldn't be moving up to 14 if there wasn't the WAC piece. Something is going on.
05-27-2012 02:35 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
(05-27-2012 02:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  WAC has one thing in Cache that trumps a LOT of things. 3 letters- FBS.

SLC wouldn't be moving up to 14 if there wasn't the WAC piece. Something is going on.

While I have heard vague (unsubstantiated) rumors of possible WAC moves involving some Texas teams, Ive not seen or heard any decent source lend any credibility to the talk. That said, it is certainly plausible, especially considering that support for a moratorium on FCS move ups is rumored to be growing.
(This post was last modified: 05-27-2012 02:50 PM by Attackcoog.)
05-27-2012 02:49 PM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
(05-27-2012 02:49 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  
(05-27-2012 02:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  WAC has one thing in Cache that trumps a LOT of things. 3 letters- FBS.

SLC wouldn't be moving up to 14 if there wasn't the WAC piece. Something is going on.

While I have heard vague (unsubstantiated) rumors of possible WAC moves involving some Texas teams, Ive not seen or heard any decent source lend any credibility to the talk. That said, it is certainly plausible, especially considering that support for a moratorium on FCS move ups is rumored to be growing.
Sam Houston studied FBS two years ago. At the time, the WAC almost certainly wasn't interested. The considerations may be different now.

http://itemonline.com/sports/x1617552783...ortunities

Quote:Would it be easier to go out and try to lure Division II schools like the SLC did with Central Arkansas a few years ago to join the league, or would it be easier for SHSU, Stephen F. Austin, Lamar, Southeastern Louisiana and Central Arkansas to join the FBS?

All of these different scenarios floating around is a reason why Sam Houston State put out the survey so the athletic department could explore every option. The Item recently sat down with Bearkats athletic director Bobby Williams to ask some questions about the survey and how likely a move to the FBS would be.
05-27-2012 02:59 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
(05-27-2012 02:59 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(05-27-2012 02:49 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  
(05-27-2012 02:35 PM)stever20 Wrote:  WAC has one thing in Cache that trumps a LOT of things. 3 letters- FBS.

SLC wouldn't be moving up to 14 if there wasn't the WAC piece. Something is going on.

While I have heard vague (unsubstantiated) rumors of possible WAC moves involving some Texas teams, Ive not seen or heard any decent source lend any credibility to the talk. That said, it is certainly plausible, especially considering that support for a moratorium on FCS move ups is rumored to be growing.
Sam Houston studied FBS two years ago. At the time, the WAC almost certainly wasn't interested. The considerations may be different now.

http://itemonline.com/sports/x1617552783...ortunities

Quote:Would it be easier to go out and try to lure Division II schools like the SLC did with Central Arkansas a few years ago to join the league, or would it be easier for SHSU, Stephen F. Austin, Lamar, Southeastern Louisiana and Central Arkansas to join the FBS?

All of these different scenarios floating around is a reason why Sam Houston State put out the survey so the athletic department could explore every option. The Item recently sat down with Bearkats athletic director Bobby Williams to ask some questions about the survey and how likely a move to the FBS would be.

Like I said, all Ive heard is vague rumours. But Sam Houston and Lamar were the teams mentioned. Lamar just re-started football a couple of years ago---so Im a little skeptical. Sam Houston, on the other hand, seems much more plausible.
(This post was last modified: 05-27-2012 03:13 PM by Attackcoog.)
05-27-2012 03:09 PM
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Ole Blue Offline
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
FWIW - New Orleans was in the Sun Belt for a long time. They're really a Division 1 level school with financial issues. They've got a 10,000 seat arena and a 28,000 seat football stadium. I think the Southland would be a great fit... especially if they can restart the football program and get more exposure down in that area.
05-27-2012 03:30 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
The other question is would boise,new mexico st, seattle and denver want to stick around for that "new" wac?
05-27-2012 03:30 PM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
(05-27-2012 03:30 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  The other question is would boise,new mexico st, seattle and denver want to stick around for that "new" wac?

The WAC has to be working on something unconventional, otherwise Utah Valley, Bakersfield, and possibly even UTPA would all have been added by now.
05-27-2012 04:00 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
I doubt the WAC will try to rebuild with more Southland schools. There are too few with the facilities or attendance to play at the FBS level. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Southland's reestablishment of a Texas presence west of Houston is part of an effort to make the conference a reasonable landing spot for NMSU. Abilene Christian and Incarnate Word would both help bridge the geographic gap from the current Southland member schools to Las Cruces.
05-27-2012 04:10 PM
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stever20 Offline
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
I think the WAC move there would make sense. Sam Houston St lost the national title last year in the finals. North Dakota St won. Both could be in the new WAC. Getting both easily could push Montana and Montana St. That's a 6 school western division there. Include Lamar and 1-2 others and it's a full conference...
05-27-2012 04:30 PM
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
(05-27-2012 04:30 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I think the WAC move there would make sense. Sam Houston St lost the national title last year in the finals. North Dakota St won. Both could be in the new WAC. Getting both easily could push Montana and Montana St. That's a 6 school western division there. Include Lamar and 1-2 others and it's a full conference...


Montana and Montana State seem happy where they are, and the Big Sky is looking pretty solid.

http://www.kpax.com/news/big-sky-thrivin...e-changes/

I find it hard to imagine any Big Sky schools making a move to the WAC, unless the WAC reinvents itself as an FCS conference that allows the top western FCS programs to unite without requiring them to move up to FBS until they choose to do so on their own terms.
05-27-2012 04:51 PM
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stever20 Offline
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
The problem that those schools are facing that you seem to ignore- the doing it on their terms- that's not a possiblity. The talk about the 10 year moratorium on FBS callups- that's real. So- in a lot of ways it's now or never for them. They can't wait 5 years from now and move up.
05-27-2012 05:06 PM
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
(05-27-2012 04:10 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I doubt the WAC will try to rebuild with more Southland schools. There are too few with the facilities or attendance to play at the FBS level. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Southland's reestablishment of a Texas presence west of Houston is part of an effort to make the conference a reasonable landing spot for NMSU. Abilene Christian and Incarnate Word would both help bridge the geographic gap from the current Southland member schools to Las Cruces.

Most nmsu posters seem to think Raggie basketball needs to be in a western conference because of LA recruiting. I think the Southland would be an absolute last resort for NMSU.
(This post was last modified: 05-27-2012 06:07 PM by CPslograd.)
05-27-2012 05:51 PM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
Interesting if true.....

I suppose the WAC could add Lamar, Sam Houston State, McNeese St and Central Arkansas to grow back to 6 in football.

This would allow the WAC a reprieve for a few years from NCAA membership requirements and before they can get the master plan going for the Southeastern FBS schools.
05-27-2012 06:53 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
(05-27-2012 04:10 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I doubt the WAC will try to rebuild with more Southland schools. There are too few with the facilities or attendance to play at the FBS level. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Southland's reestablishment of a Texas presence west of Houston is part of an effort to make the conference a reasonable landing spot for NMSU. Abilene Christian and Incarnate Word would both help bridge the geographic gap from the current Southland member schools to Las Cruces.

The WAC will take a shot at rebuilding football. The reality is the "WAC" is the same as saying "New Mexico and Idaho". Do you really believe those two schools are not going to try to rebuild the WAC? Of course they are--other than independence---a rebuilt WAC is thier only FBS option. I doubt they will be successful, but to say they wont try to rebuild is to ignore thier dire situation.
(This post was last modified: 05-27-2012 06:58 PM by Attackcoog.)
05-27-2012 06:57 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
(05-27-2012 06:57 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  
(05-27-2012 04:10 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I doubt the WAC will try to rebuild with more Southland schools. There are too few with the facilities or attendance to play at the FBS level. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Southland's reestablishment of a Texas presence west of Houston is part of an effort to make the conference a reasonable landing spot for NMSU. Abilene Christian and Incarnate Word would both help bridge the geographic gap from the current Southland member schools to Las Cruces.

The WAC will take a shot at rebuilding football. The reality is the "WAC" is the same as saying "New Mexico and Idaho". Do you really believe those two schools are not going to try to rebuild the WAC? Of course they are--other than independence---a rebuilt WAC is thier only FBS option. I doubt they will be successful, but to say they wont try to rebuild is to ignore thier dire situation.

I said I didn't think the WAC would try to rebuild "with more Southland schools" (which is the subject of this thread). I have every expectation it will try to save football by establishing a new eastern wing with FCS schools that want to move up now, including the four that Karl Benson mentioned earlier this week. News of contacts between the WAC and those schools has already trickled out.
05-27-2012 07:50 PM
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
(05-27-2012 05:51 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  
(05-27-2012 04:10 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I doubt the WAC will try to rebuild with more Southland schools. There are too few with the facilities or attendance to play at the FBS level. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Southland's reestablishment of a Texas presence west of Houston is part of an effort to make the conference a reasonable landing spot for NMSU. Abilene Christian and Incarnate Word would both help bridge the geographic gap from the current Southland member schools to Las Cruces.

Most nmsu posters seem to think Raggie basketball needs to be in a western conference because of LA recruiting. I think the Southland would be an absolute last resort for NMSU.

I agree. I'm suggesting the Southland might be setting itself up to make an offer to NMSU if the Aggies become desperate. But I think NMSU will exhaust every other available option first.
05-27-2012 07:53 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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RE: Southland to 14? WAC to steal 4 more?
(05-27-2012 07:50 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(05-27-2012 06:57 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  
(05-27-2012 04:10 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  I doubt the WAC will try to rebuild with more Southland schools. There are too few with the facilities or attendance to play at the FBS level. But I wouldn't be surprised if the Southland's reestablishment of a Texas presence west of Houston is part of an effort to make the conference a reasonable landing spot for NMSU. Abilene Christian and Incarnate Word would both help bridge the geographic gap from the current Southland member schools to Las Cruces.

The WAC will take a shot at rebuilding football. The reality is the "WAC" is the same as saying "New Mexico and Idaho". Do you really believe those two schools are not going to try to rebuild the WAC? Of course they are--other than independence---a rebuilt WAC is thier only FBS option. I doubt they will be successful, but to say they wont try to rebuild is to ignore thier dire situation.

I said I didn't think the WAC would try to rebuild "with more Southland schools" (which is the subject of this thread). I have every expectation it will try to save football by establishing a new eastern wing with FCS schools that want to move up now, including the four that Karl Benson mentioned earlier this week. News of contacts between the WAC and those schools has already trickled out.

I see what you are saying. Still I wouldnt be surprised if a couple of Southland schools were part of the plan. Like I said, Sam Houston State is a viable option. There is likley at least one other that could be a reasonable move up candidate.
05-27-2012 07:59 PM
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