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Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - f1do - 01-25-2022 01:12 PM
https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/01/25/pac-12-football-scheduling-brigham-youngs-move-to-the-big-12-could-be-highly-problematic/
BYU was repeatedly shunned by the PAC12--which makes this article all the more funny to me.
===================
...
“Internally, BYU moving to the Big 12 presents us with significant scheduling issues,” said Merton Hanks, the Pac-12’s senior associate commissioner and chief of football operations.
...
One source indicated the potential loss of the Cougars as a frequent opponent is part of the larger discussion on the future of Pac-12 scheduling strategy.
...
The Cougars are an ideal opponent for Pac-12 programs because of their proximity, the quality of the competition and their ability to sell tickets in opposing stadiums.
In some ways, they have played the role of a conference member, all while wanting — but being denied — entry into the league.
(Their flexibility also has provided Stanford and USC with an end-of-season opponent when they don’t host Notre Dame on the Saturday after Thanksgiving.)
The paucity of non-conference options that make sense for the Pac-12 competitively and geographically — the vast majority of Group of Five schools are in the eastern half of the country — would make future scheduling even more difficult if BYU is no longer an option.
...
Games currently under contract with the Cougars, starting in 2023, and their status:
Arizona
at BYU: 2026
vs. BYU: 2027
Status: Still scheduled
Stanford
vs. BYU: 2026, 2028
at BYU: 2025, 2029, 2031, 2035
Status: The Cardinal has “opened lines of communication with BYU as they prepare to join the Big 12,” according to a spokesperson. In addition, Stanford has contacted BYU about the need to reschedule the 2020 game that was lost to COVID.
USC
vs. BYU: 2023
Status: The late November game is unlikely to be played, according to a conference source.
Utah
vs: BYU: 2024, 2026, 2028, 2030
at BYU: 2025, 2027
Status: The Utes confirmed the game contracts include an opt-out clause for BYU but said they have not yet been contacted about changes.
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - f1do - 01-25-2022 01:19 PM
I could see some of the Arizona/Stanford games remaining on the future schedule as an OOC P5 game--but that would be at the expense of a Utah game in those years.
The other interesting thing is that the PAC12 is considering dropping to 8 conference games with the first choice adding games against the Big 10--who would also have to agree to drop to 8 conference games--and there is no guarantee of that. So the backup plan would be to schedule other OOC games--and you can see by the volume of games that BYU was a favorite who would no longer be available. So maybe there isn't as much benefit to going to 8 conference games in the new realignment.
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - CYOWA - 01-25-2022 01:58 PM
Their loss. Welcome aboard, you crazy Mormons.
(I put apple juice in your mug).For the record, BYU has been my top expansion choice for well over a decade now. Love your football history- I'm a big Jim McMahon fan.
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - Fighting Muskie - 01-25-2022 02:35 PM
I say keep the Utah games for sure and wait to see if there’s going to be 8 or 9 conference games in the Big 12 to decide what to do with the rest. It would be smart to play a 2nd P5 OOC game if they have 4 OOC games to work with.
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - Fighting Muskie - 01-25-2022 02:36 PM
If the Big 12 would allow it, it’d be nice to see BYU-Utah played the last week of the season.
(Colorado would need to end the season against a CA school though)
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - KnightLight - 01-25-2022 03:42 PM
BYU really likes the exposure they get from those games in the Bay Area and in LA.
I don't see both of those games going away.
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - CYOWA - 01-25-2022 04:16 PM
(01-25-2022 03:42 PM)KnightLight Wrote: BYU really likes the exposure they get from those games in the Bay Area and in LA.
I don't see both of those games going away.
This is why I've been campaigning for a 4 game non-conference slate. Allow scheduling freedom for more regional games. This would help cut travel expenses for some of our more far-flung members.
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - natibeast2.0 - 01-25-2022 04:45 PM
F the PAC 12!
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - Sicembear11 - 01-25-2022 04:56 PM
(01-25-2022 04:16 PM)CYOWA Wrote:(01-25-2022 03:42 PM)KnightLight Wrote: BYU really likes the exposure they get from those games in the Bay Area and in LA.
I don't see both of those games going away.
This is why I've been campaigning for a 4 game non-conference slate. Allow scheduling freedom for more regional games. This would help cut travel expenses for some of our more far-flung members.
I support going back to 8 games in conference, just with the requirement that at least two of your non-con games are against P5 opponents.
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - Noise Penalty - 01-25-2022 05:08 PM
(01-25-2022 01:12 PM)f1do Wrote: https://www.mercurynews.com/2022/01/25/pac-12-football-scheduling-brigham-youngs-move-to-the-big-12-could-be-highly-problematic/
BYU was repeatedly shunned by the PAC12--which makes this article all the more funny to me.
===================
...
“Internally, BYU moving to the Big 12 presents us with significant scheduling issues,” said Merton Hanks, the Pac-12’s senior associate commissioner and chief of football operations.
...
One source indicated the potential loss of the Cougars as a frequent opponent is part of the larger discussion on the future of Pac-12 scheduling strategy.
...
The Cougars are an ideal opponent for Pac-12 programs because of their proximity, the quality of the competition and their ability to sell tickets in opposing stadiums.
In some ways, they have played the role of a conference member, all while wanting — but being denied — entry into the league.
(Their flexibility also has provided Stanford and USC with an end-of-season opponent when they don’t host Notre Dame on the Saturday after Thanksgiving.)
The paucity of non-conference options that make sense for the Pac-12 competitively and geographically — the vast majority of Group of Five schools are in the eastern half of the country — would make future scheduling even more difficult if BYU is no longer an option.
...
Games currently under contract with the Cougars, starting in 2023, and their status:
Arizona
at BYU: 2026
vs. BYU: 2027
Status: Still scheduled
Stanford
vs. BYU: 2026, 2028
at BYU: 2025, 2029, 2031, 2035
Status: The Cardinal has “opened lines of communication with BYU as they prepare to join the Big 12,” according to a spokesperson. In addition, Stanford has contacted BYU about the need to reschedule the 2020 game that was lost to COVID.
USC
vs. BYU: 2023
Status: The late November game is unlikely to be played, according to a conference source.
Utah
vs: BYU: 2024, 2026, 2028, 2030
at BYU: 2025, 2027
Status: The Utes confirmed the game contracts include an opt-out clause for BYU but said they have not yet been contacted about changes.
Meh, BYU bailed on a number of teams outside the PAC-12, Virginia being one of them.
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - CYOWA - 01-26-2022 09:40 AM
(01-25-2022 04:56 PM)Sicembear11 Wrote:(01-25-2022 04:16 PM)CYOWA Wrote:(01-25-2022 03:42 PM)KnightLight Wrote: BYU really likes the exposure they get from those games in the Bay Area and in LA.
I don't see both of those games going away.
This is why I've been campaigning for a 4 game non-conference slate. Allow scheduling freedom for more regional games. This would help cut travel expenses for some of our more far-flung members.
I support going back to 8 games in conference, just with the requirement that at least two of your non-con games are against P5 opponents.
Not a problem for us. Already locked in with Iowa for the foreseeable future, and would love to get Missouri or Nebraska back on the schedule.
It's Baylor that's notorious for having an embarrassingly easy non-con.
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - YNot - 01-26-2022 10:42 AM
9-game conference schedule with 12 teams is a mistake. See the PAC 12 for the last decade. You *guarantee* more losses within the conference, which hurts in the rankings compared to other conferences that have fewer conference games AND more teams.
Follow the SEC model. Your division winners are more likely to have nice-and-shiny win-loss records and you're more likely to get additional teams into the top-25.
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - natibeast2.0 - 01-26-2022 11:04 AM
(01-26-2022 10:42 AM)YNot Wrote: 9-game conference schedule with 12 teams is a mistake. See the PAC 12 for the last decade. You *guarantee* more losses within the conference, which hurts in the rankings compared to other conferences that have fewer conference games AND more teams.
Follow the SEC model. Your division winners are more likely to have nice-and-shiny win-loss records and you're more likely to get additional teams into the top-25.
100% agree. 8 is the number.
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - bear2be2 - 01-26-2022 03:33 PM
(01-26-2022 10:42 AM)YNot Wrote: 9-game conference schedule with 12 teams is a mistake. See the PAC 12 for the last decade. You *guarantee* more losses within the conference, which hurts in the rankings compared to other conferences that have fewer conference games AND more teams.
Follow the SEC model. Your division winners are more likely to have nice-and-shiny win-loss records and you're more likely to get additional teams into the top-25.
There are certainly compelling reasons to move to eight conference games, but I think you could make a relatively strong case for nine as well.
I'd be fine either way.
I don't think Big 12 programs will have the cache nationally to smoke and mirrors our way into playoff/title discussions. I think we all need to be prepared to earn whatever we get. Nine conference games gives our teams more opportunities to do that. But that's more opportunities for wins and losses, so you have to pick which matters more or is more helpful in the long run.
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - robertfoshizzle - 01-26-2022 04:06 PM
I prefer 8, but to make it work, I believe the Big 12 either needs to officially join the "alliance" or form a scheduling alliance with the SEC. Otherwise, the existing Big 12 members are going to have a hell of a time filling out their future schedules. That said, there are a ton of games coming off BYU's future schedule, so perhaps the other Big 12 schools could just pick some of those games up.
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - CYOWA - 01-26-2022 04:51 PM
(01-26-2022 04:06 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: I prefer 8, but to make it work, I believe the Big 12 either needs to officially join the "alliance" or form a scheduling alliance with the SEC. Otherwise, the existing Big 12 members are going to have a hell of a time filling out their future schedules. That said, there are a ton of games coming off BYU's future schedule, so perhaps the other Big 12 schools could just pick some of those games up.
We need the flexibility to make these games happen/continue:
Bedlam
Backyard Brawl
Black Diamond
Cyhawk
Telephone Trophy
Keg of Nails
Holy War
Wagon Wheel
Chancellor's Spurs
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - robertfoshizzle - 01-26-2022 05:00 PM
(01-26-2022 04:51 PM)CYOWA Wrote:(01-26-2022 04:06 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote: I prefer 8, but to make it work, I believe the Big 12 either needs to officially join the "alliance" or form a scheduling alliance with the SEC. Otherwise, the existing Big 12 members are going to have a hell of a time filling out their future schedules. That said, there are a ton of games coming off BYU's future schedule, so perhaps the other Big 12 schools could just pick some of those games up.
We need the flexibility to make these games happen/continue:
Bedlam
Backyard Brawl
Black Diamond
Cyhawk
Telephone Trophy
Keg of Nails
Holy War
Wagon Wheel
Chancellor's Spurs
I agree. I can't stand what conference realignment has done to rivalries. The complete disregard for the fans who make the sport what it is reeks of arrogance and greed.
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - JamesNathan - 01-27-2022 10:01 AM
The problem is that the games were at the end of the season. BYU was a great fit as an independent because they could fill in that slot whereas most teams aren't willing to do that at the end of a season when they are trying to finish out a conference season or prepare for a CCG. That's what makes it tough. Can it be worked around? Sure. But it's not the optimal choice for teams in a conference.
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - YNot - 01-28-2022 10:40 AM
(01-26-2022 03:33 PM)bear2be2 Wrote:(01-26-2022 10:42 AM)YNot Wrote: 9-game conference schedule with 12 teams is a mistake. See the PAC 12 for the last decade. You *guarantee* more losses within the conference, which hurts in the rankings compared to other conferences that have fewer conference games AND more teams.
Follow the SEC model. Your division winners are more likely to have nice-and-shiny win-loss records and you're more likely to get additional teams into the top-25.
There are certainly compelling reasons to move to eight conference games, but I think you could make a relatively strong case for nine as well.
I'd be fine either way.
I don't think Big 12 programs will have the cache nationally to smoke and mirrors our way into playoff/title discussions. I think we all need to be prepared to earn whatever we get. Nine conference games gives our teams more opportunities to do that. But that's more opportunities for wins and losses, so you have to pick which matters more or is more helpful in the long run.
Mathematically, 9 conference games *guarantees* more losses within the conference because it's a zero-sum game.
The argument for 9 games is the potential for better Big 12-owned TV content. Two more cross-division games like WVU-BYU and TCU-UCF are potentially better inventory than the extra OOC games each of those teams could schedule. But, would 9th conference games like BYU-Kansas and UCF-Texas Tech might not move the needle as much as BYU-Stanford and WVU-Georgia Tech.
RE: Pac-12 football scheduling: BYU’s move to the Big 12 could be highly problematic - bear2be2 - 01-28-2022 11:19 AM
(01-28-2022 10:40 AM)YNot Wrote:It also guarantees more wins, and one additional opportunity for those at the top of the league to boost their standing nationally, which was my point. Are you more concerned about the final resumes of your best teams or the perception of your mid-tier teams/overall depth? The calculus changes depending on your priorities.(01-26-2022 03:33 PM)bear2be2 Wrote:(01-26-2022 10:42 AM)YNot Wrote: 9-game conference schedule with 12 teams is a mistake. See the PAC 12 for the last decade. You *guarantee* more losses within the conference, which hurts in the rankings compared to other conferences that have fewer conference games AND more teams.
Follow the SEC model. Your division winners are more likely to have nice-and-shiny win-loss records and you're more likely to get additional teams into the top-25.
There are certainly compelling reasons to move to eight conference games, but I think you could make a relatively strong case for nine as well.
I'd be fine either way.
I don't think Big 12 programs will have the cache nationally to smoke and mirrors our way into playoff/title discussions. I think we all need to be prepared to earn whatever we get. Nine conference games gives our teams more opportunities to do that. But that's more opportunities for wins and losses, so you have to pick which matters more or is more helpful in the long run.
Mathematically, 9 conference games *guarantees* more losses within the conference because it's a zero-sum game.
The argument for 9 games is the potential for better Big 12-owned TV content. Two more cross-division games like WVU-BYU and TCU-UCF are potentially better inventory than the extra OOC games each of those teams could schedule. But, would 9th conference games like BYU-Kansas and UCF-Texas Tech might not move the needle as much as BYU-Stanford and WVU-Georgia Tech.