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+----- Thread: The Last Train to Clarksville (/thread-934880.html)
The Last Train to Clarksville - XLance - 11-09-2021 05:57 AM
Well, the P5 just closed the door after it allowed 4 teams to slip in to join the failing Big 12. They just didn't close the door, they slammed it shut and bolted it from the inside. There won't be any more teams in the P5 ..........ever.
Every other school took notice, which has resulted in the mad scramble at the G level that we have seen over the last few months. It's been 2010-12 on steroids.
The Alliance has accomplished two things.
First it kept it's hands off of the Big 12 and allowed them to finish their rebuild without any interference or threat of any of their schools being poached during the process.
Second, the Alliance agreed no to poach any schools from each other........yet.
I don't think we are done with realignment at the P level, but all of the players are set, now in a year or two we may see a shifting of a few schools within the Alliance and perhaps a trade or two with the SEC to rebalance the conferences into the best made-for-TV versions of themselves and create the most compelling match-ups geographically in preparation for the streaming market to come.
We can argue and speculate on trades that the networks will encourage that may or may not come to pass, but one thing is certain, the last train has left the station and the P inventory is now set.
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - Gamenole - 11-09-2021 10:27 AM
Interesting, I'm not so sure. It still seems the Big XII may add more members, and I could see the ACC adding if it loses schools to the B1G or SEC but not enough to kill the conference. Less likely but still possible, the Pac 12 could add some of the G5 schools in their natural footprint.
I don't see the SEC or B1G adding though unless from another P5 conference, or of course Notre Dame if they were willing.
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - Wedge - 11-09-2021 12:02 PM
X, you really think no one is going to Monkee around with realignment after this?
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - CliftonAve - 11-09-2021 12:13 PM
After every round of realignment, people come and predict the preceding round was the last. Every time they are proven wrong. Conferences have been realigning in some manner for the past 50 years.
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - XLance - 11-09-2021 01:55 PM
(11-09-2021 12:02 PM)Wedge Wrote: X, you really think no one is going to Monkee around with realignment after this?
If I knew for sure, you would have to refer to me as a guru.
Notre Dame made it clear that the aren't moving. The have a contract until 2036. That's when we might see additions.
In the mean time, just shifting P teams around ight give us:
SEC: adds UCF (they really do need another Florida school and Tampa/Orlando is where all of the population is) trades Missouri to the Big 12.
Big 12: takes Missouri for UCF and promptly trades for Nebraska, sending Missouri to the B1G where they should have been all along.
ACC: swaps Pitt for Maryland with the B1G....everyone is a lot happier, then abruptly cedes Boston College and Syracuse to the B1G giving that conference complete control of the Northeast. The ACC is happier.
SEC=16
B1G=16
ACC=12
Big 12=12
PAC=12
Then the obvious trade, which I won't mention, would be Louisville for South Carolina (the numbers stay the same).
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - Gamenole - 11-09-2021 02:44 PM
(11-09-2021 01:55 PM)XLance Wrote:(11-09-2021 12:02 PM)Wedge Wrote: X, you really think no one is going to Monkee around with realignment after this?
If I knew for sure, you would have to refer to me as a guru.
Notre Dame made it clear that the aren't moving. The have a contract until 2036. That's when we might see additions.
In the mean time, just shifting P teams around ight give us:
SEC: adds UCF (they really do need another Florida school and Tampa/Orlando is where all of the population is) trades Missouri to the Big 12.
Big 12: takes Missouri for UCF and promptly trades for Nebraska, sending Missouri to the B1G where they should have been all along.
ACC: swaps Pitt for Maryland with the B1G....everyone is a lot happier, then abruptly cedes Boston College and Syracuse to the B1G giving that conference complete control of the Northeast. The ACC is happier.
SEC=16
B1G=16
ACC=12
Big 12=12
PAC=12
Then the obvious trade, which I won't mention, would be Louisville for South Carolina (the numbers stay the same).
OK I don't think your first post is likely to be correct, but I could be wrong.
This one though I think is pretty out there, several moves here that would never happen....
First of all the SEC isn't going to be adding Central anybody, about the time we've digested Texas & OK it will be time to start looking at Florida State for that 2nd FL school and planning for the add when the prison walls come down, assuming nobody has taken on the GoR before that time.
Missouri MIGHT be OK with going to the B1G, but I think there's no way in hell that Maryland would accept going back to the ACC or Nebraska back to the XII, EVEN IF they preferred the competition in their old leagues these decisions are made by people who appreciate the greater dollars & stability of being in the B1G. The ACC & Big XII are never going to offer anything comparable.
And Louisville for South Carolina? I also don't think South Carolina would accept that, but why would the SEC even entertain such a trade? The population of SC is growing much faster than in Kentucky, it would make zero sense to trade the flagship and your only SC school for a commuter school that would be your #2 in Kentucky.
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - JRsec - 11-09-2021 02:50 PM
(11-09-2021 12:02 PM)Wedge Wrote: X, you really think no one is going to Monkee around with realignment after this?
He must have just found his induction notice after waking up from his Pleasant Valley Sunday trance. I'd say ole X has been A.W.O.L. for over 50 years!
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - XLance - 11-09-2021 08:48 PM
(11-09-2021 02:50 PM)JRsec Wrote: [quote='Wedge' pid='17833373' dateline='1636477359']
X, you really think no one is going to Monkee around with realignment after this?
He must have just found his induction notice after waking up from his Pleasant Valley Sunday trance. I'd say ole X has been A.W.O.L. for over 50 years!
[/quot\
Just a Daydream Believer that realignment will work for all of the P5 schools, develop regional conferences that restore some if not all of the traditional rivalries.
There are a lot of possibilities of moving a few schools around to get better conference alignments that what we now have in the P5.
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - JRsec - 11-09-2021 09:25 PM
(11-09-2021 08:48 PM)XLance Wrote:(11-09-2021 02:50 PM)JRsec Wrote: [quote='Wedge' pid='17833373' dateline='1636477359']
X, you really think no one is going to Monkee around with realignment after this?
He must have just found his induction notice after waking up from his Pleasant Valley Sunday trance. I'd say ole X has been A.W.O.L. for over 50 years!
[/quot\
Just a Daydream Believer that realignment will work for all of the P5 schools, develop regional conferences that restore some if not all of the traditional rivalries.
There are a lot of possibilities of moving a few schools around to get better conference alignments that what we now have in the P5.
Well the SEC "won't be your steppin' stone".
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - XLance - 11-10-2021 05:49 AM
(11-09-2021 09:25 PM)JRsec Wrote:(11-09-2021 08:48 PM)XLance Wrote:(11-09-2021 02:50 PM)JRsec Wrote: [quote='Wedge' pid='17833373' dateline='1636477359']
X, you really think no one is going to Monkee around with realignment after this?
He must have just found his induction notice after waking up from his Pleasant Valley Sunday trance. I'd say ole X has been A.W.O.L. for over 50 years!
[/quot\
Just a Daydream Believer that realignment will work for all of the P5 schools, develop regional conferences that restore some if not all of the traditional rivalries.
There are a lot of possibilities of moving a few schools around to get better conference alignments that what we now have in the P5.
Well the SEC "won't be your steppin' stone".
JR, I'm a Believer that ESPN and FOX will get things worked out before other carriers can get involved.
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - Fighting Muskie - 11-10-2021 08:41 PM
As I’ve said before, there’s only two possible next moves in the chess game:
ND joins the ACC or Big 10 as a full member
The SEC goes supernova and adds ACC schools in an attempt to narrow the ranks of the elite to 1 or 2 mega conferences.
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - bullet - 11-10-2021 10:08 PM
(11-09-2021 09:25 PM)JRsec Wrote:(11-09-2021 08:48 PM)XLance Wrote:(11-09-2021 02:50 PM)JRsec Wrote: [quote='Wedge' pid='17833373' dateline='1636477359']
X, you really think no one is going to Monkee around with realignment after this?
He must have just found his induction notice after waking up from his Pleasant Valley Sunday trance. I'd say ole X has been A.W.O.L. for over 50 years!
[/quot\
Just a Daydream Believer that realignment will work for all of the P5 schools, develop regional conferences that restore some if not all of the traditional rivalries.
There are a lot of possibilities of moving a few schools around to get better conference alignments that what we now have in the P5.
Well the SEC "won't be your steppin' stone".
MTSU was claiming, "Its a little bit me, its a little bit you."
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - XLance - 11-11-2021 06:26 AM
Since we have hit all of the high notes, I'll return to the original premise.
Allowing the Big 12 to survive as a P conference, we will see a 12 team PAC, 12 team Big 12, 12 team ACC and the SEC and B1G at 16 teams each. In my mind those conferences have ebbed and flowed into one another with multiple configurations. This is just one draft, but i like it and could end up being the finished product.
I also think there will be a 12 team playoff (P schools only) with three teams coming from the SEC and B1G and two each from the ACC, Big 12, and PAC.
Again this is a work in progress but I think this scenario is a good beginning:
(teams listed, not in divisions or pods)
PAC
Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, California, UCLA, Southern Cal, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, BYU
Big 12
Colorado, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Iowa State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Houston, Louisville, Cincinnati
ACC
Miami, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Wake Forest, Duke, Carolina, NC State, Va. Tech, UVa, Maryland, West Virginia
SEC
Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, LSU, Arkansas, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt, Tennessee, Kentucky, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida, Central Florida
B1G
Boston College, Syracuse, Rutgers, Penn State, Pitt, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska.
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - YNot - 11-12-2021 11:05 AM
(11-11-2021 06:26 AM)XLance Wrote: Since we have hit all of the high notes, I'll return to the original premise.
Allowing the Big 12 to survive as a P conference, we will see a 12 team PAC, 12 team Big 12, 12 team ACC and the SEC and B1G at 16 teams each. In my mind those conferences have ebbed and flowed into one another with multiple configurations. This is just one draft, but i like it and could end up being the finished product.
I also think there will be a 12 team playoff (P schools only) with three teams coming from the SEC and B1G and two each from the ACC, Big 12, and PAC.
Again this is a work in progress but I think this scenario is a good beginning:
(teams listed, not in divisions or pods)
PAC
Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State, Stanford, California, UCLA, Southern Cal, Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, BYU
Big 12
Colorado, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Iowa State, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Houston, Louisville, Cincinnati
ACC
Miami, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Wake Forest, Duke, Carolina, NC State, Va. Tech, UVa, Maryland, West Virginia
SEC
Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma, LSU, Arkansas, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt, Tennessee, Kentucky, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida, Central Florida
B1G
Boston College, Syracuse, Rutgers, Penn State, Pitt, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska.
While I like most of the alignment, I don't see it. What motivation do the conferences and individual schools have for shifting? There is no compelling reason to "rebalance." There is still a conference pecking order and most moves probably hurt the existing matchups and streaming value.
I'll start first with the one real off-the-wall suggestion: Colorado leaves the PAC 12 to switch places with BYU? hahahaha...not happening. This moves good cultural fits to horrible fits for the sake of a slight improvement in geography.
Then, SEC loses Missouri to add UCF? What? I wonder what Oklahoma, Texas, and Arkansas might say about that...let alone Florida...
Louisville and West Virginia just switch conferences? So Cincinnati and Louisville can be an in-conference game again? What about Pitt and WVU?
Rather than give up Maryland, the B1G would just add two teams...but I don't see Pitt, BC and Syracuse near the top of their wish list. I thought the focus was on compelling matchups and streaming...this seems to focus on markets. Or, expand for the sake of expansion?
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - Wedge - 11-12-2021 01:44 PM
(11-12-2021 11:05 AM)YNot Wrote: I'll start first with the one real off-the-wall suggestion: Colorado leaves the PAC 12 to switch places with BYU? hahahaha...not happening. This moves good cultural fits to horrible fits for the sake of a slight improvement in geography.
Then, SEC loses Missouri to add UCF? What? I wonder what Oklahoma, Texas, and Arkansas might say about that...let alone Florida...
Right. You have to start with the premise that schools can’t be moved against their wishes.
Maryland does not want to return to the ACC. Colorado and Missouri do not want to return to the Big 12. Etc., etc.
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - texoma - 11-14-2021 03:45 PM
(11-09-2021 01:55 PM)XLance Wrote:(11-09-2021 12:02 PM)Wedge Wrote: X, you really think no one is going to Monkee around with realignment after this?
If I knew for sure, you would have to refer to me as a guru.
Notre Dame made it clear that the aren't moving. The have a contract until 2036. That's when we might see additions.
In the mean time, just shifting P teams around ight give us:
SEC: adds UCF (they really do need another Florida school and Tampa/Orlando is where all of the population is) trades Missouri to the Big 12.
Big 12: takes Missouri for UCF and promptly trades for Nebraska, sending Missouri to the B1G where they should have been all along.
ACC: swaps Pitt for Maryland with the B1G....everyone is a lot happier, then abruptly cedes Boston College and Syracuse to the B1G giving that conference complete control of the Northeast. The ACC is happier.
SEC=16
B1G=16
ACC=12
Big 12=12
PAC=12
Then the obvious trade, which I won't mention, would be Louisville for South Carolina (the numbers stay the same).
X, it seems like most of your conference realignments always include the ACC getting rid of Louisville. You must really want the ACC to dump Louisville.
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - Gamenole - 11-14-2021 04:12 PM
(11-14-2021 03:45 PM)texoma Wrote: X, it seems like most of your conference realignments always include the ACC getting rid of Louisville. You must really want the ACC to dump Louisville.
It STILL grates on the ACC old guard that they had to take Louisville! From what I read that was a rare win for the football schools, and we forced the Cardinals on them over their preferred choice of UConn.
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - JRsec - 11-14-2021 05:22 PM
(11-14-2021 04:12 PM)Gamenole Wrote:(11-14-2021 03:45 PM)texoma Wrote: X, it seems like most of your conference realignments always include the ACC getting rid of Louisville. You must really want the ACC to dump Louisville.
It STILL grates on the ACC old guard that they had to take Louisville! From what I read that was a rare win for the football schools, and we forced the Cardinals on them over their preferred choice of UConn.
Yep, the ACC only has 2 schools in the top 25 in revenue production. Florida State at 10th and Louisville at 15th, with the next closest to the top 25 being Clemson at 26th. The fact that the old core looks down upon Louisville and has looked down upon FSU, and sees Clemson as their red headed stepchild says it all. The ACC would not really be considered a P football conference without you and their overall network value would more closely approximate the Big East rather than the Big 12.
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - XLance - 11-15-2021 05:58 AM
(11-14-2021 04:12 PM)Gamenole Wrote:(11-14-2021 03:45 PM)texoma Wrote: X, it seems like most of your conference realignments always include the ACC getting rid of Louisville. You must really want the ACC to dump Louisville.
It STILL grates on the ACC old guard that they had to take Louisville! From what I read that was a rare win for the football schools, and we forced the Cardinals on them over their preferred choice of UConn.
(11-12-2021 08:02 PM)Gamenole Wrote:(11-12-2021 03:56 PM)Statefan Wrote: I've explained this a number of times.
The ACC didn't work like the SEC or B10 when it expanded in 2003 or again in 2011-12.
UNC, Duke, and UVa fully controlled the Conference Office and Swofford was their man. That was part of what pissed MD off about the ACC.
UNC's football recruiting has ALWAYS relied on the State of Virginia, specifically the Tidewater. UNC had trouble filling Kenan from the time the expanded to 63K. Duke can't fill an empty boot. VT would fill both Wallace Wade and Kenan. It was UNC's and Duke's ptb behind the scenes that allowed UVa to be strong-armed by the Va Governor.
The decision to put VT and GT into a football division with UNC, Duke, and UVa had been made before the vote to admit Miami and VT. It's that simple. UNC did not want to play football in a division with FSU because they could not beat FSU. The disposition of Clemson was not a factor. UNC and Duke didn't want MD in their division because MD's football traveling base had declined.
These were football revenue driven divisions by the ptb at UNC, Duke, and UVa.
NC State's and Clemson's relationship with MD and football was better. MD and Clemson could tick off a trip to Va, by rolling through Va to DC. As long and MD was in the Atlantic, recruiting areas were not horribly unbalanced.
When MD left, UNC, Duke, and UVa did not want to add Louisville so they were chucked into MD's spot instead of moving Pitt to the Atlantic.
Knowing that the underlying alignment was unfair in the long term, UNC, Duke, and UVa made sure that the divisions were written into the Constitution and ByLaws.
What GT, VT, Pitt, Miami, Syracuse, or FSU wanted did not count for **** it was about what the Blue 3 could do through Swofford.
That's the story of divisions in the ACC. No one in the Coastal gets anything by a switch - that's how sweet a deal the Coastal is.
Absent growing to 15 or 18 and splitting into 3 divisions, the only thing that can pass is divisionless play which is okay with everyone in the Coastal as far as I know with the execption of Pitt. Didn't have and don't have any insights there.
Great history, and as usual with the ACC the blame lies with UNC, UVA & Duke. Maryland was right, I long for a day when Florida State is no longer in a conference with them.
![[Image: emot_stoopsfaceshake.gif]](https://www.dirtburglars.com/core/smilies/0/0/3/9/8/1//emot_stoopsfaceshake.gif)
RE: The Last Train to Clarksville - BewareThePhog - 11-15-2021 06:32 PM
Given its preference for football over basketball, the SEC is clearly in love with Saturday’s Child.