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Expectations for Your School's Basketball Program - Basketball Jones - 12-01-2020 02:21 PM
We're having an interesting debate on the Rockets Message Boards on the expectations of our Men's Basketball Program. While Coach TK has checked all of the right boxes both on and off the court during his tenure at Toledo, he has still not gotten the Rockets to the Big Dance. Some of our posters are satisfied with Toledo having a very competitive team each season along with graduating our players and not having them get in trouble off the court. However, some feel that while all of that is fine and good, getting to the NCAA Tournament should be the ultimate goal, and there is a point in time where you must consider making a coaching change if that goal isn't met. I would appreciate your thoughts on your expectations for your school's Basketball Program and whether not making the NCAA Tournament after a number of years is cause for a coach's dismissal l despite otherwise having a overall good program in a One Bid League like the MAC?
RE: Expectations for Your School's Basketball Program - NIU007 - 12-01-2020 02:41 PM
Expectations? What are those?
RE: Expectations for Your School's Basketball Program - Bronco'14 - 12-01-2020 03:40 PM
Bronco hockey expectation is to make NCAA Tournament: do really well out of conference, & go about .500 in conference.
Bronco football expectation (generally) is no worse then 7-5 regular season & challenging for MAC title.
There really isn't a basketball expectation. Some of the problem is I think many of us had grown complacent w/ all the division titles Hawkins was winning w/ us. Most of us, myself included, seemed happy w/ that b/c we believed we'd eventually break thru to the title (which we did a couple times). Now that we stink, the expectation is just to get back up to .500 again.
RE: Expectations for Your School's Basketball Program - MileHighBronco - 12-01-2020 08:21 PM
(12-01-2020 03:40 PM)Bronco14 Wrote: Bronco hockey expectation is to make NCAA Tournament: do really well out of conference, & go about .500 in conference.
Bronco football expectation (generally) is no worse then 7-5 regular season & challenging for MAC title.
There really isn't a basketball expectation. Some of the problem is I think many of us had grown complacent w/ all the division titles Hawkins was winning w/ us. Most of us, myself included, seemed happy w/ that b/c we believed we'd eventually break thru to the title (which we did a couple times). Now that we stink, the expectation is just to get back up to .500 again.
We're talking about fans expectations. Depends on which fans you talk to. B14 here is a glass half empty kind of guy. Me, I'm more of an optimist. Might be a generational thing.
My take on WMU basketball is that fans expect the team to at least contend for the west crown. They vary depending on the circumstance, like this season.
As for Hockey, B14 is no hockey fan. The expectation is to finish in the top four in the NCHC, get home ice for the playoffs and make the NCAA tourney. Of course, the goal is to win the conference. Can't win a National Championship if you don't get to the dance.
RE: Expectations for Your School's Basketball Program - Bronco'14 - 12-01-2020 09:19 PM
I think I got fan expectations right. Football I think I could adjust fan expectations to no worse then 8-4. I think our football fans are the most demanding. Hockey, I probably undershot the NCHC record --> we've been icing better-then-average teams the past couple seasons.
To chime in on OP's question, I think what we really need are Akron, Ohio, & Kent St fan expectations.
RE: Expectations for Your School's Basketball Program - gobaseline - 12-01-2020 10:03 PM
As previously stated I think WMU will surprise to the upside. Not enough to win, place or show but to ruin one or two others reasonable expectations to succeed.
More athletic and overall skilled than in recent past. More touches brings out more from others.
Key always is lost or made opportunities.Turnovers in the past have left WMU either reeling or with an unnecessary nail biter. When you don't get to the line or make the ample attempts presented you further narrow the window.
Hawkins now Bates's team will always play hard and work on D. Blue collar as Hawk wanted. But with better athleticism and the same approach as previously you can create an offset.
The Sr, Soph and freshman class have some playmakers. Is it enough? Time will tell.
RE: Expectations for Your School's Basketball Program - Kit-Cat - 12-03-2020 02:04 AM
Ohio is on its 5th coach since 2008. That's almost a new coach every 2 years.
The program was at its best when there was enough depth on the roster where it could recruit for need rather than take the best available player.
I admire not just the NCAAs but a good conference record because it will land you within time better non-conference opponents and post season opportunities. I know Ohio has been an outlier dancing with a so-so conference record (sweet 16 as a MAC #5 seed) but I would rather have an at-large resume and not leave things to chance in Cleveland.
A good non-conference is important. Ohio has a long tradition of competing with if not beating P5 schools in the non-conference so any loss greater than 12-14 points seems embarrassing.
RE: Expectations for Your School's Basketball Program - OUVan - 12-03-2020 02:14 PM
It obviously depends on the fan but I think Ohio's fans generally expect that once a coach gets settled in that the team will be a threat to win the conference every year. Don't have to win it every year but should be in the conversation. Frankly, i think most schools in the conference should have that expectation. The problem is, like it or not, this is a stepping stone conference for coaches and it kills continuity. Just ask Buffalo. They were lucky enough to have a good hire after Hurley left and not only keep the team going he actually improved it. But now it appears they have hired their Saul Phillips (obviously way too early on that but early returns are disappointing). Would love to see a MAC school get lucky like St. Mary's and find themselves a Randy Bennett who is happy to stay where he is at a reasonable price.
RE: Expectations for Your School's Basketball Program - cleveland - 12-03-2020 02:41 PM
(12-03-2020 02:14 PM)OUVan Wrote: It obviously depends on the fan but I think Ohio's fans generally expect that once a coach gets settled in that the team will be a threat to win the conference every year. Don't have to win it every year but should be in the conversation. Frankly, i think most schools in the conference should have that expectation. The problem is, like it or not, this is a stepping stone conference for coaches and it kills continuity. Just ask Buffalo. They were lucky enough to have a good hire after Hurley left and not only keep the team going he actually improved it. But now it appears they have hired their Saul Phillips (obviously way too early on that but early returns are disappointing). Would love to see a MAC school get lucky like St. Mary's and find themselves a Randy Bennett who is happy to stay where he is at a reasonable price.
Looking from afar ... believe Saul gets a bit of a bum rap from you guys, much like Christian. Right now your two best players (and possible NBA talent - Preston and the PF) are Saul's recruits. Injuries and such doomed Saul ... Christian got you the first MAC title in decades and left (like most every other successful MAC coach) and you guys say he left you high and dry .... here's hoping Boals early success continues and he indeed becomes like Bennett. That means OU should be a consistent Top Tier (1-4) MAC team w/a NCAA slot or two.
RE: Expectations for Your School's Basketball Program - OUVan - 12-03-2020 05:57 PM
(12-03-2020 02:41 PM)cleveland Wrote: Looking from afar ... believe Saul gets a bit of a bum rap from you guys, much like Christian. Right now your two best players (and possible NBA talent - Preston and the PF) are Saul's recruits. Injuries and such doomed Saul ... Christian got you the first MAC title in decades and left (like most every other successful MAC coach) and you guys say he left you high and dry .... here's hoping Boals early success continues and he indeed becomes like Bennett. That means OU should be a consistent Top Tier (1-4) MAC team w/a NCAA slot or two.
I am not one of the guys that rips on Christian. I thought he not only did a pretty good job with us but that he absolutely had to take the BC job. But you are correct there are a lot of Ohio fans that feel jilted. Plus they figured that since we were returning our entire team from the Sweet 16 team that we should expect to get right back there. Never mind that the 2012 team came relatively close to not making the MAC Championship game and came pretty close to losing to Akron. Christian's big sin was losing the MAC Championship game (and going 1-5 against the Zips). His leaving did hurt us though.
As for Saul I defended him until his last season. I thought he did a good job recruiting but he just couldn't impose his will on the players. We did get killed by injuries (Campbell, Carter, Dartis, Gollon) during his tenure but in four of his five seasons he let our PG do whatever the heck they wanted (1. Bean Willis, 3. Jaaron Simmons 4&5 Taevion Kirk). He recruited a bunch of kids that would have thrived on good ball movement offenses and then put in PGs that dribbled the air out of the ball and looked to score first. I gave up on him when he brought in Preston, started him but still kept Kirk as the primary ball handler. It wasn't until the end of February that he finally let Preston take the reins and he was a revelation(most of us were calling for the move in December). I wish him well but he needs players who are going to do the right thing on the court because he won't make them. You are probably questioning Simmons inclusion here but he was a completely different player in his first year compared to the second. It was only fitting that his last game with us ended with him holding the ball for the last shot and then not even getting a shot off in time in the MAC Semis.
As for Boals you can just feel the difference in the program. Just wondering how long we can keep him.
RE: Expectations for Your School's Basketball Program - Kit-Cat - 12-03-2020 07:41 PM
At least in basketball I think its realistic to hold onto a good MAC coach for 8-10 years. The bigger conferences are usually only attracted to very high level performance from a mid major coach, which rarely the mid major produces.
Steady improvement, roster development is better long term than a 2 year thing and a token NCAA appearance. Competing annually in Cleveland for MAC semifinals and beyond. A coach the alums can grow to recognize and get behind.
Like Solich. He's not just running a team he's running a program. He's had time to identify and build up all the positions.