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RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - Zorch - 09-04-2020 11:19 AM

(09-04-2020 10:24 AM)Tribeheart Wrote:  They did state it would take a $150 mil endowment to cover the $3+ mil/ year needed. Somebody with more refined financial skills than me can comment on that validity. $150 mil is not chump change. 15% of the For the Bold.

The lead paragraph in the Pilot article stated due to recent dramatic increases in athletic department costs. The question would be, what specifically were the dramatic increases. If the proportionate increase was across all sports, then so be it. If the increases were specific sports, then be transparent about what drove the decision.

Read it more carefully, as I wrote in Post 71 above. Here is what the letter said (emphasis mine):

"William & Mary Athletics has calculated the annual budget to support these seven sports at a nationally competitive varsity level would be $5.84 million annually. The endowment immediately needed to fund these programs at this level would be approximately $150 million. That sum would endow only annual operating costs, including the full allotment of athletics scholarships as Division I programs..."

Here is what the FAQ article said:

"In order to retain these seven programs and support them in a manner that will allow them, along with all 16 of our remaining programs to compete at the highest level possible, an endowment of at least $150 million would be necessary."

The first blurb mentions competing at the highest level with the full amount of scholarships. That is a scholarship level considerably above what the department spends now -- given that Men's Swimming has NO scholarships and T&F has few. In other words, they are not describing the amount of money they need to maintain the highly successful academic/athletic status quo of these sports but, rather, the money they would need to endow full scholarships in each of these sports to attain and maintain national championship caliber teams.

The second blurb corrects the original letter and makes it clear that the $150M is the endowment necessary to fully fund scholarships for every athlete in every sport. If that is not what they meant then they did a poor job of writing what they did mean. I personally think that they wrote it exactly the way they wanted to write it in order to give the impression that it would take an enormous, inordinate amount of money to keep these programs alive. More disingenuous BS from the athletic department, and fully supported by the Administration and certain members of the BOV. (From FAQ: "That analysis was conducted by members of the senior Athletics department team, in consultation with university leaders and members of the Board of Visitors.)


RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - WMTribe90 - 09-04-2020 11:26 AM

(09-03-2020 05:53 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  For all of us who have been through employment downsizing or going out of business, it is a tough life lesson/experience for these kids. Honoring any limited scholarships after this year is in reality very generous, considering the tip of the iceburg, economic impact that Covid is having on higher education. Those depending on any scholarship money are fortunate to have that security blanket. We can only hope that W&M is able to weather and evolve in this educational institution environment in relatively good shape. I imagine this may cause student activism regarding student athletic fees and football to raise it's head again, whether warranted or not. Push back will be inevitable, especially in this period of activism and Covid pent up energy.

The “real world” business comparison is kinda bogus. If profitability was the only metric, then W&M would support zero programs because none of the sports turn a profit that I’m aware. If this were a real world business environment then the Ad would cut the least profitable divisions, which would include my former sport of football.

I get COVID-19 and the pandemic have worsened the financial viability of the Athletic Department. Unfortunately, I am left to question the motivation of this decision under Huge’s leadership. It seems her goal from the start was to mold our AD after the P5 model. I believe she is focusing resources on football and basketball, looking to boost their success to pad her resume and use W&M as a stepping stone to a P5 job. Shaver’s payout alone could have saved a sport or two from the chopping block.

The number of sports W&M offered relative to its size is one of the things that made W&M special and unique. A large and diverse student athlete population was a differentiator. Since when does the College do things the way everyone else does? Are we now aspiring to be just like every other DI athletic program that value athletics not for the intrinsic value to the student athletes, but rather on metrics of popularity and revenue potential.

I get at the end of the day bills have to be paid. However, did Huge reach out to the alums of the affected sports or the athletics donor base to even try and save these sports? If not, then I think you have your answer about how much she cares about the core mission of athletics (as W&M as approached it until this point in time) and where her goals and aspirations lay.

As the husband to a former W&M track athlete, it will be hard for us to make donations to any sport going forward. We donate with our hearts. If Huge wants to treat athletics as strictly business then we’ll be customers (ie, game tickets), but not financial supporters with our limited charitable dollars. Nothing personal, just business, right?


RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - WMTribe90 - 09-04-2020 11:33 AM

(09-03-2020 09:28 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  
(09-03-2020 08:09 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  This sucks. No two ways about it. I wish they had at least passed the hat around before deciding to cut these programs.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

They did. Based on the letter, they tried pretty much everything, including having other coaches and the AD take pay cuts. They couldn't find anything that was feasible long-term.

My wife and I are engaged alums. I visit this site daily. My father-in-law ran cross country at WM. I’m on all the College’s mail and email distribution lists. I received no solicitation to support the cancelled sports, in either specific or roundabout terms. Saying this decision is not surprising given the situation is not the same as proactively giving donors a chance to make up the shortfall. I question how real the effort was if engaged alums like us were caught off-guard.


RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - WMTribe90 - 09-04-2020 11:38 AM

(09-04-2020 08:05 AM)zablenoise Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 04:58 AM)Rocco Wrote:  2) The problem with doing a public campaign is it might work, and then the school would be saddled with a program it doesn't want.

Well put Rocco. Frankly, I think this decision is a philosophical change cloaked in financial garb. If we wanted to raise the money, we could probably raise the money. Or we could at least reallocate funds. I think this is a message from the AD that there is a focus going forward on the sports most likely to raise Huge's profile.

Fixed it for you. But, otherwise spot on.


RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - Zorch - 09-04-2020 11:41 AM

(09-04-2020 06:55 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  David Teel write up
https://richmond.com/sports/college/william-and-mary/teel-william-mary-always-did-more-with-less-but-loss-of-seven-sports-was-unavoidable/article_37b8d1b1-a986-5d85-bef9-6937c478df46.html

Are you sure that article was written by David Teel? After reading it, I was sure that it was written by Huge. I especially loved this line: "“We turned over every single rock,” Huge said". Interesting that she thinks that when, as many posters have noted, there was nothing said about needing funds to prevent abolishing 7 sports during For the Bold or One Tribe One Day, nor where there any letters or emails sent out to Tribe Club supporters asking for money specifically for these sports. Again, as many have noted, they did not want the money to sustain the sports, they want only to eliminate these sports.


RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - Zorch - 09-04-2020 11:50 AM

(09-04-2020 08:44 AM)Zorch Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 07:40 AM)NC Tribe Wrote:  
(09-04-2020 06:24 AM)nj alum Wrote:  IMO, there should be an economic boycott of the school until the direction of this ship is forced to change.
My economic boycott started in March of 2019.
I've been doing that, too, and since that same date. What a coincidence!

(09-04-2020 11:26 AM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  ... If Huge wants to treat athletics as strictly business then we’ll be customers (ie, game tickets), but not financial supporters with our limited charitable dollars. Nothing personal, just business, right?

WMTribe90 -- you said that perfectly! I have been that way since March 2019 but I lacked the right words to exactly describe the relationship. Yes, I have football season tickets (for now) but that makes me a customer, not a supporter of this athletic department.


RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - DSL - 09-04-2020 12:11 PM

I wonder if the tax code changes last year and the implementation
of seat licenses also had an impact.
Donations were deductible but the seat license fee is not.
Also,
My company matched donations but there's no match for seat licenses.


RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - WMInTheBurg - 09-04-2020 12:48 PM

(09-04-2020 11:33 AM)WMTribe90 Wrote:  
(09-03-2020 09:28 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote:  
(09-03-2020 08:09 PM)zablenoise Wrote:  This sucks. No two ways about it. I wish they had at least passed the hat around before deciding to cut these programs.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

They did. Based on the letter, they tried pretty much everything, including having other coaches and the AD take pay cuts. They couldn't find anything that was feasible long-term.

My wife and I are engaged alums. I visit this site daily. My father-in-law ran cross country at WM. I’m on all the College’s mail and email distribution lists. I received no solicitation to support the cancelled sports, in either specific or roundabout terms. Saying this decision is not surprising given the situation is not the same as proactively giving donors a chance to make up the shortfall. I question how real the effort was if engaged alums like us were caught off-guard.

Fair point. It sounds like while there was fundraising going on, the administration didn't elaborate on the full needs and urgency. If they had earned the benefit of the doubt, I'd say that they were trying not to fundraise harder when the country is in the middle of an economic crisis, but I don't think they've earned it.


W&M Cuts 7 Sports - Tribal - 09-04-2020 01:02 PM

Huge's motivation has never been a secret.

Her focus on basketball and football has never been a secret.

There was NO urgent plea to save these programs because she wanted to cut them. She used student-athletes then discarded them. Again, from Autumn Brenner:

"Tribe Athletics really had me get up in front of the whole school and all our donors to promote the new strategic plan for athletics. Didn’t realize that plan secretly included the cutting of my own program. So much for serving the student athletes."

Student-Athletes are the core of Tribe2025.

Tune into Tribe Talks ...

https://t.co/gy9LPwLmOI

Tribe2025https://t.co/dPBgiz003I

#BoldlyPursuingExcellence https://t.co/prRMZhyS6n

We probably offered too many sports, sports we couldn't sustain, but fiscal irresponsibility and dishonesty make this situation appalling.

I hope the P5 gig comes a calling.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - tribeinexile - 09-04-2020 03:15 PM

Huge works for Rowe. Rowe works for the BOV. As has been stated, Huge’s focus on football and basketball has been apparent since Day 1. I doubt she hid it in her job interview. Perhaps those that hired her viewed it as a qualification, not a drawback.

Count me among those who have a lot of trouble with this decision. I do not believe, however, it was the whimsical act of a rogue administrator.


W&M Cuts 7 Sports - Tribal - 09-05-2020 04:33 AM

Not W&M, but an *interesting* approach by the University of Utah.


U of U furloughs every employee in athletic department, coaches and AD included

What really stood out to me, and something I believe must happen at W&M: "In addition, in some select cases, we have also eliminated positions through reductions in force."

https://kutv.com/amp/news/local/u-of-u-furloughs-every-employee-in-athletic-department-coaches-and-ad-included

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - bubbadog57 - 09-05-2020 04:59 AM

To economically "boycott" our college now is short sided and foolish. I gave more this year than before.

Knowing Katherine Rowe and several members of her staff and the Board of Visitors, some of the latter for decades, I am convinced
our alma mater is in good and caring hands. Decisions are not made lightly.


W&M Cuts 7 Sports - Tribal - 09-05-2020 05:06 AM

To give more this year than before is short sided and foolish...even if one is besties, for decades, with Katherine Rowe, several members of her staff, and the Board of Visitors.

On another note, anyone heard from Tribe Club since Soldy died?



Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - nj alum - 09-05-2020 05:38 AM

(09-05-2020 04:59 AM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  To economically "boycott" our college now is short sided and foolish. I gave more this year than before.

Knowing Katherine Rowe and several members of her staff and the Board of Visitors, some of the latter for decades, I am convinced
our alma mater is in good and caring hands. Decisions are not made lightly.

People with good and caring hands, who do not make decisions lightly, can make short-sighted and foolish decisions. They can be WRONG. Every decision, no matter the intention, is not necessarily correct.

You have the right to cheerlead about the good intentions of the Administrators currently making the decisions at a 300 year old institution that has withstood the test of time, until now.

I have the right to question whether the decisions are “right” or “wrong”.

The policy of the current Adminstrators is to elevate men’s hoops, get a ticket to the Dance, and write W&M’s name on a dance card operated by a corrupt and ineffective NCAA.

As a side note, how much of W&M’s athletic funding issues are tied to the requirements of the corrupt and ineffective NCAA? Why are we not publicly leading the charge to change that organization? Why are we not getting together with like-minded schools, exit the NCAA, and set up an intercollegiate sports system that doesn’t bankrupt athletics departments? Etc., etc., etc.... This is the core of the issue, IMO, and we are not BOLD in this regard, and the GOLD we bleed is currency.

Returning to the issue at hand, the decision to elevate men’s hoops has (1) resulted in the firing of Tony Shaver, (2) renovation of the Hall with apparent diminished capacity to apparently create a rise in ticket prices due to a demand/supply formulas, and (3) the termination of seven sports directly resulting in the alienation/divorce of thousands of fellow alumni.

This is carnage. This is self-executed carnage. For one sport.

It is not defensible.

I have been on this soap box for years. Why? Because I pay attention, and until now, God has blessed me with a brain that can cut through BS. So while you cheerlead, some of us are trying to save the school from its Administrators’ short-sighted and foolish decisions. The only tool we have is the same tool Administrators crave ... GOLD .... money.

This ship is heading over the falls. It must change course.


RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - NC Tribe - 09-05-2020 05:52 AM

(09-04-2020 10:56 AM)TribeFan88 Wrote:  Anyone know why they cut men's indoor and outdoor track but not women's?

How do you recruit for men's cross country when you don't offer indoor and outdoor track for these same athletes to compete in the long distance races?


RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - nj alum - 09-05-2020 06:00 AM

And another thing.

This is a community that donated one billion dollars in response to Alma Mater’s call over the last several years.

During that same time frame that one billion dollars was being raised, did Alma Mater inform the donees that Alma Mater was considering cutting seven sports? Did Alma Mater lift a finger during the one billion dollar campaign to save the seven sports? Did Alma Mater tell alumni of swimming, gymnastics, volleyball, and track that they might want to save their money for their sports?

Frankly, it’s outrageous!

I really should be calling for the heads of everyone associated with that fundraising campaign that sold our community a bill of goods by remaining silent on the depth of the “trouble” concerning the seven sports while raising one billion dollars.

Finally, people have questioned the timing of the announcement.

Put on your thinking caps.

Could the announcement have been made before 6/30/2020 while the Campaign for the Bold was taking place? Of course not. It also means that this was likely pre-planned with a post 6/30/2020 execution date. Nasty, nasty implications. Blaming all of this on COVID 19 is just a cover, IMO. What academic departments have been the casualties of COVID 19? ZERO.

Move forward a couple of months. Labor Day weekend. COVID 19 dominating the headlines. Politics dividing the country and grabbing everyone’s attention. Perfect time to drop the bomb.

Frankly, this is conduct unbecoming my Alma Mater.


RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - nogretheogre - 09-05-2020 06:51 AM

As one poster stated, placing the sports on "probation" status, even if effectively stating that their days were numbered, would have been a much better approach. Youre already giving them this final year. 2 years of public effort...ie tack one extra $3mil-loss year onto it, give time for hopefully some donor to step up, and maybe save some of these sports. Track and Swimming especially seem like the most "worthy," given their overall success.


RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - TDenverFan - 09-05-2020 06:59 AM

(09-05-2020 04:33 AM)Tribal Wrote:  Not W&M, but an *interesting* approach by the University of Utah.


U of U furloughs every employee in athletic department, coaches and AD included

What really stood out to me, and something I believe must happen at W&M: "In addition, in some select cases, we have also eliminated positions through reductions in force."

https://kutv.com/amp/news/local/u-of-u-furloughs-every-employee-in-athletic-department-coaches-and-ad-included

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk


I'm curious how this works recruiting wise. Seems like it would put all recruiting to a halt


RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - Tribe1693 - 09-05-2020 07:12 AM

(09-05-2020 05:06 AM)Tribal Wrote:  To give more this year than before is short sided and foolish...even if one is besties, for decades, with Katherine Rowe, several members of her staff, and the Board of Visitors.

On another note, anyone heard from Tribe Club since Soldy died?



Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Crickets.

Each year I would get a hand written note from Bobby Dwyer - after I donated - until he left. A small but meaningful gesture.

Chris Stratton and Nick Georges would call or visit about every 6 months.

I would hear from Soldy at least once a quarter with either a text or phone call when he was in that role.

Since January or February - nothing.

Speaks volumes....


RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - Tribe1693 - 09-05-2020 07:14 AM

(09-05-2020 04:59 AM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  To economically "boycott" our college now is short sided and foolish. I gave more this year than before.

Knowing Katherine Rowe and several members of her staff and the Board of Visitors, some of the latter for decades, I am convinced
our alma mater is in good and caring hands. Decisions are not made lightly.

I really hope those in leadership don't consider your counsel - whatever that may be - as the voice and temperature of athletic alumni.