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+----- Thread: W&M Cuts 7 Sports (/thread-905988.html)
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - DSL - 09-24-2020 01:22 PM
Since he's already on the payroll, maybe Shaver could be interim AD.
Or Laycock.
Or Dwyer.
We need some instant help out of this mess.
W&M Cuts 7 Sports - Tribal - 09-24-2020 01:31 PM
I can see W&M cutting volleyball (least vocal through all of this), adding softball, and reinstating the other 6 cut sports pending a successful fundraising effort. Huge will survive this, battered but employed under supervision.
Huge would be prepared to reinstate if it saved her job. Unfortunately, she'll need many years to build a level of respect sufficient enough to move on.
Or, cuts remain and Huge regroups as AD at Wellesley College.
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RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - nj alum - 09-24-2020 01:31 PM
(09-24-2020 01:06 PM)nogretheogre Wrote:(09-24-2020 10:15 AM)Old tribe Wrote: Iowa is dealing with the same situation we are. Cut a number of sports, AD is receiving lots of pushback and criticism for the way it was handled, and has said the decision is final regardless. Very similar situation as well, where cuts were already being planned prior to COVID induced loss of revenue.
https://www.si.com/college/2020/09/23/iowa-eliminated-programs-want-answers-football-return
This is very similar.
The AD’s talking with each other about what sports to cut, and not being transparent with their individual constituencies.
Well, the peasants have grabbed the pitchforks.
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - Blow Gym rat - 09-24-2020 01:34 PM
(09-24-2020 12:11 PM)TribePride91 Wrote: If Huge is to be believed(that all these sports were destined to be cut when she was hired 3 years ago) ....
Where/when did she say this? (I'm not saying she didn't, I just haven't seen it).
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - bubbadog57 - 09-24-2020 03:22 PM
Volleyball has been on chopping block from Driscoll's time. Problem was Title 9 required similar men's cut.
That is sole reason men's track & field was cut this time...to balance Title 9 out.
W&M Cuts 7 Sports - mrjoolius - 09-24-2020 03:25 PM
Working the title Ix angle
https://twitter.com/FGGiesen/status/1309213430344306689
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - Tribe3455 - 09-24-2020 03:27 PM
(09-24-2020 01:03 PM)Tribal Wrote: Radio silence from surviving program athletes. I assume coaches told them to stay out of it. Unfortunate, given how vocal they've been about other causes...you'd think they would rally around fellow student-athletes.
Big celebrations all around for 100% voter registration, so yay to that big deal.
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I doubt we will hear much other than individual support. And I don't see that as unfortunate. As a former student athlete that played on a team that was underfunded you actually understand that sometimes universities tried to do to much with not enough. If my program had been axed I would have been unbelievably mad but not amazingly surprised. The loudest of the athletes/parents/alums from discontinued sports have basically ripped basketball and football so I wouldn't visibly support them either if I was a part of those sports. Some of the "arguments" used by swimming especially bordered closeted racism, pointed directly at football and hoops. The rest of the sports know they are lucky not to be swimming, track, gymnastics and volleyball right now so I doubt you'll hear much from them either.
It was handled poorly certainly. That we can all agree on.
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - WMTribe90 - 09-24-2020 03:28 PM
(09-24-2020 03:22 PM)bubbadog57 Wrote: Volleyball has been on chopping block from Driscoll's time. Problem was Title 9 required similar men's cut.
That is sole reason men's track & field was cut this time...to balance Title 9 out.
You know what else would balance Title IX? Replacing volleyball with any number of other sports or simply adding scholarships to existing women’s sports that currently do not offer the max. Cutting volleyball does and would not require cutting a successful men’s sport.
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - zablenoise - 09-24-2020 03:30 PM
(09-24-2020 03:28 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote: You know what else would balance Title IX? Replacing volleyball with any number of other sports or simply adding scholarships to existing women’s sports that currently do not offer the max. Cutting volleyball does and would not require cutting a successful men’s sport.
This. Honestly, it makes more sense to me to give the cut volleyball scholarships to women's swimming than also cutting the sport.
W&M Cuts 7 Sports - WMInTheBurg - 09-24-2020 03:33 PM
But that's only if the goal was to remove volleyball and not cut costs. Moving the scholarships to other sports I guess would lower the overhead. Are scholarships the bulk expense for sports?
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RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - zablenoise - 09-24-2020 03:37 PM
(09-24-2020 03:33 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote: But that's only if the goal was to remove volleyball and not cut costs. Moving the scholarships to other sports I guess would lower the overhead. Are scholarships the bulk expense for sports?
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I'd say so. In that "9 sports endowment" spreadsheet the athletic department put out, scholarships accounted for about 70% of the costs for the 7 cut sports
W&M Cuts 7 Sports - Tribal - 09-24-2020 03:38 PM
Does VB even receive scholarships?
Swimmers get about a scholarship or two to split among a few OOS swimmers to offset higher tuition.
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RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - WMTribe90 - 09-24-2020 03:42 PM
(09-24-2020 03:33 PM)WMInTheBurg Wrote: But that's only if the goal was to remove volleyball and not cut costs. Moving the scholarships to other sports I guess would lower the overhead. Are scholarships the bulk expense for sports?
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I was responding to Bubba’s contention that Title IX considerations “required” cutting a men’s sport if you cut volleyball. He was arguing volleyball should be cut because of its relative lack of success and support. In that context, I think volleyball is the one sport that should be seriously considered for elimination and reallocation of resources, but not used as an excuse to take down a successful men’s sport with it.
And, moving volleyball money to women’s gymnastics or swimming would produce some cost savings for sure. Fewer coaches and support staff, you eliminate the travel, equipment, uniform, and recruiting budgets for an entire sport, reduced insurance costs, and reduced administrative overhead at the department level.
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - Tribe1693 - 09-24-2020 04:16 PM
Here is an article from SWIMSWAM about the Title IX potential lawsuit.
https://swimswam.com/william-marys-cut-womens-sports-allege-title-ix-violations/
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - mrjoolius - 09-24-2020 04:46 PM
(09-24-2020 04:16 PM)Tribe1693 Wrote: Here is an article from SWIMSWAM about the Title IX potential lawsuit.Full disclosure, I didn't read the article.
https://swimswam.com/william-marys-cut-womens-sports-allege-title-ix-violations/
Edit: I now read the article.
Wouldn't it only be a title IX violation if the numbers weren't balanced this year? None of these cuts even take effect until after this season, is that correct? There is no telling what kind of reorganization the dept might do after this season to be in compliance. Can you make a lawsuit for a potential future infraction? Once you enter the new NCAA season and it is shown that the title IX numbers are out of wack, then you'd have your lawsuit. Threatening a lawsuit if you cut the sports seems premature and little more than a threat.
Reading the quote now from the lawyer makes sense. "if the school does not agree to reinstate the eliminated teams or reveal some form of undisclosed Title IX compliance plan, they will move forward with a preliminary legal injunction against the plan to cut the programs."
So, W&M just has to announce that it is starting a women's softball/rowing program and the lawsuit goes away. I still don't see how the school must operate on the lawyer's timetable for disclosure. W&M simply must comply to the rules of the NCAA.
W&M Cuts 7 Sports - Tribal - 09-24-2020 05:59 PM
Busy lives, so maybe you missed the BOV talk last night.
A recording found here: https://www.wm.edu/about/administration/bov/meetings/2020-09-listen/index.php
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RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - Zorch - 09-24-2020 06:57 PM
(09-24-2020 03:27 PM)Tribe3455 Wrote:(09-24-2020 01:03 PM)Tribal Wrote: Radio silence from surviving program athletes. ...
I doubt we will hear much other than individual support. ...
According to the Daily Press article by Marty O'Brien: "The [student] resolution bears more than 1,000 signatures, including athletes from virtually every sport."
Those signatures are the "individual support". No coach is going to allow his team to support a mutiny against the AD (his boss) no matter how much he agrees with the Tribe7 behind the scenes.
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - tribetime10 - 09-24-2020 07:11 PM
(09-23-2020 08:50 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:(09-23-2020 05:59 PM)Tribe1693 Wrote:(09-23-2020 05:53 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:(09-23-2020 05:17 PM)WMTribe90 Wrote:(09-23-2020 04:53 PM)WMSportsBlog Wrote: Definitely interested in this, but if admin is as adamant about the finality of the changes, this may ultimately be a PR move.
They want everyone to believe this is a fait accompli and to move on quickly, but rest assured if enough supporters express outrage and vote by pulling financial support this can and will get reversed. I suspect Huge would be fired or resign if she gets over-ruled and I’m more than fine with that as well. The stakeholders were ignored and left out of the decision to fundamentally change the structure and mission of the AD. Huge was hired to steward Tribe athletics not treat it like her personal play thing to be molded to look like every other DI athletic department in the country. Time to be heard...
Take a look at the giving numbers from 2019 as posted by the Tribe Club. It was down an enormous amount. Not just basketball either.
Also It is classic to pin it on Pictor, etc. She most certainly told them her ideas and they were paid to support them
Looking at Swimming and M/W Track, the percentage and dollar increases from 2019 to 2020 is very impressive.
Not sure what you are looking at. What I see is the following:
Mens Track was down 19k
Womens Track down 13k
Swimming up 59k (great job)
Mens hoops down 255k (I wonder why)
Football down 277k (I wonder why again)
Baseball down 219k
Mens soccer down 56k
Gymnastics for both men and women are up by a combined 46k
Other sports were down or flat
Those numbers are reflective of something.
Side note...is this document that is referenced publicly available someplace?
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - Zorch - 09-24-2020 07:13 PM
(09-24-2020 04:46 PM)mrjoolius Wrote: ...
So, W&M just has to announce that it is starting a women's softball/rowing program and the lawsuit goes away.
When I first saw the softball and rowing data in the Athletic Department links, I thought that they were there to fluff and artificially inflate the cost numbers (which they did, since the quoted "needed" endowment ($150M) includes those sports (which currently do not even exist at W&M)). However, after now reading the SwimSwam article by Jack McCormick where he talks about Eastern Michigan replacing one women's sport (softball) with another (lacrosse), it is now more clear to me that there was another reason why rowing and softball numbers were included. It was in preparation for just such an exigency. If the Department is somehow forced to reinstate one or more sports then they plan to do a switcheroo. They can substitute softball for one or even two of the other women's sports because a softball (like baseball) team is composed of so many players. I would expect rowing to perhaps be a substitute, too, even if a men's sport must be dropped. Rowing would seem to be a sport without much overhead (although, remember that running just takes a pair of shorts and a pair of shoes).
Re rowing: raise your hand if you have ever participated in a rowing race. That's what I thought. I participated in gymnastics in junior high and high school (loved the rings). I ran on the track team in high school. I have swum at various pools throughout my life. I have even played volleyball on numerous occasions. But I have never been in a rowing race in my life. So why in the heck would anyone think that rowing would go over well in Williamsburg? More so than swimming or track or gymnastics or volleyball? The notion is ridiculous. I don't deny that rowing undoubtedly has its adherents but I cannot imagine that they would outnumber those who are interested in these other more mainstream sports.
RE: W&M Cuts 7 Sports - Zorch - 09-24-2020 07:22 PM
(09-24-2020 12:11 PM)TribePride91 Wrote: ... You can attempt to increase the funding for 3 major sports to try and chase the dream without cutting other sports. The most dishonest part of all of this is that there was no attempt or intention to retain any of the sports that were cut. If the entire decision is about finances, then football should be cut because it is likely the loss leader. ...
True, true, and true. However, note that the "entire" decision is not just about finances. It is about increasing support to the three "major" sports (and therefore the fact that they are all loss leaders does not weigh in, except as further incentive to steal even more money from other programs).
The plagiarism is the single best thing going for the Tribe7. Sure, the lack of transparency was criminal, the lack of respect and empathy for the affected was atrocious, and the lying was heinous --- but all that could have been weathered except for the fact that Huge dumbly plagiarized and Rowe dumbly signed it without knowing where it came from. Hopefully the stink from that event will force the BOV to chastise Rowe and replace Huge.