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How hot would synthetic turf get? - IWokeUpLikeThis - 08-24-2020 02:41 PM
Found this on accident and was shocked at the temperatures
https://plantscience.psu.edu/research/centers/ssrc/documents/temperature.pdf
Highest known temperature of synthetic turf:
200 degrees on 98-degree day in Provo, UT
"Generally, synthetic turf 35 degrees to 55 degrees hotter than natural grass"
This means a BYU game was played on a 200-degree surface on a 98-degree day. And most games were played on a surface 35-55 degrees hotter than air temperature.
It is absolutely nuts how many schools played on synthetic turf through the 80s and 90s.
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - The Cutter of Bish - 08-25-2020 06:27 AM
I thought for sure after some of the injuries that destroyed careers in the 90’s in venues where the turf was old and poorly kept the case for natural grass was all but made and certain. But the cost and care for grass keeps the fake stuff alive, no matter even stats like these.
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - kevinwmsn - 08-25-2020 09:17 AM
I would have thought before reading the article that field turf would not have been that much hotter. I get the astroturf, like where the Philadelphia Eagles used to play on before changing playing surfaces. I wonder if the teams in the south would change going back to grass.
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - johnintx - 08-25-2020 09:26 AM
(08-25-2020 06:27 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: I thought for sure after some of the injuries that destroyed careers in the 90’s in venues where the turf was old and poorly kept the case for natural grass was all but made and certain. But the cost and care for grass keeps the fake stuff alive, no matter even stats like these.
That turf in the 70's and 80's was awful.
Artificial turf is of a higher quality these days, and is much cheaper to maintain. More and more high schools are using it. Our kids' school shares a stadium with four other schools in the school district. We have a practice field at the school with artificial turf, and our main stadium has it, as well.
With that said, I prefer natural grass.
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - The Cutter of Bish - 08-25-2020 10:46 AM
Yeah, a bad weather event is all it takes to ruin a grass field, even if the drainage mechanisms are in place. I would imagine bad rainy seasons would make the case against grass in the southeast, but the southwest is a different creature.
This was some time ago, but I remember when a series of storms came through Pittsburgh and destroyed the field at Heinz. There was HS playoff football Friday, a Pitt game on Saturday, and then a Steelers-Dolphins Monday nighter. The MNF game was AWFUL. Puddles, patches, drainage...field was unplayable. I remember in the early 90’s Beaver Stadium would be a mess before they updated the drainage.
I prefer grass...but, yikes, when it gets bad there, it’s almost unplayable.
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - Keswick_Crusaders_Forever51 - 08-25-2020 11:04 AM
(08-25-2020 09:26 AM)johnintx Wrote:(08-25-2020 06:27 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: I thought for sure after some of the injuries that destroyed careers in the 90’s in venues where the turf was old and poorly kept the case for natural grass was all but made and certain. But the cost and care for grass keeps the fake stuff alive, no matter even stats like these.
That turf in the 70's and 80's was awful.
Artificial turf is of a higher quality these days, and is much cheaper to maintain. More and more high schools are using it. Our kids' school shares a stadium with four other schools in the school district. We have a practice field at the school with artificial turf, and our main stadium has it, as well.
With that said, I prefer natural grass.
If that's the stadium I'm thinking of in the Clear Lake Area, it's a beautiful stadium!
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - Fresno St. Alum - 08-25-2020 02:40 PM
(08-24-2020 02:41 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote: Found this on accident and was shocked at the temperaturesFresno St. and the Fresno Grizzlies had the old Meadowlands turf in the late 90s. In the summer we would have to hose it down before warmups, because it was so hot. I have field turf in my backyard, there's one spot w direct sun at noon and it will burn your feet if you stand on it for a couple of minutes. The temp is 100-111 here, in August.
https://plantscience.psu.edu/research/centers/ssrc/documents/temperature.pdf
Highest known temperature of synthetic turf:
200 degrees on 98-degree day in Provo, UT
"Generally, synthetic turf 35 degrees to 55 degrees hotter than natural grass"
This means a BYU game was played on a 200-degree surface on a 98-degree day. And most games were played on a surface 35-55 degrees hotter than air temperature.
It is absolutely nuts how many schools played on synthetic turf through the 80s and 90s.
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - quo vadis - 08-25-2020 02:46 PM
The artificial turf that existed until around the start of the 2000s was basically a thin carpet of plastic over concrete.
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - TrueBlueDrew - 08-25-2020 03:00 PM
(08-25-2020 09:17 AM)kevinwmsn Wrote: I would have thought before reading the article that field turf would not have been that much hotter. I get the astroturf, like where the Philadelphia Eagles used to play on before changing playing surfaces. I wonder if the teams in the south would change going back to grass.
Georgia Southern installed a new turf field a couple seasons ago with a cooling system underneath that can cool the surface by an average of 30 degrees compared to a typical turf field.
https://gseagles.com/news/2016/4/26/football-paulson-stadium-turfing-complete.aspx
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - Kaplony - 08-25-2020 06:03 PM
(08-25-2020 10:46 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: Yeah, a bad weather event is all it takes to ruin a grass field, even if the drainage mechanisms are in place. I would imagine bad rainy seasons would make the case against grass in the southeast, but the southwest is a different creature.
This was some time ago, but I remember when a series of storms came through Pittsburgh and destroyed the field at Heinz. There was HS playoff football Friday, a Pitt game on Saturday, and then a Steelers-Dolphins Monday nighter. The MNF game was AWFUL. Puddles, patches, drainage...field was unplayable. I remember in the early 90’s Beaver Stadium would be a mess before they updated the drainage.
I prefer grass...but, yikes, when it gets bad there, it’s almost unplayable.
Clemson played Notre Dame at home in 2015 in the midst of a 1000 year flood and the field wasn't ruined. In fact it rained during the Georgia Tech game the very next week and the field was in great shape.
It pays to have a premier turfgrass research program
https://www.clemson.edu/extension/horticulture/turf/
Having played and coached on both natural turf and the synthetic stuff I prefer natural turf in every circumstance you can think of, and that includes the new stuff.
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - The Cutter of Bish - 08-25-2020 10:59 PM
It’s amazing how good the field looks in both games. Pittsburgh didn’t have it so lucky. During that Pitt-USF game in 2007, the field already looked bad in spots. After four high school games the day before, that’s understandable. By MNF, it didn’t stand a chance.
Six games in four days...in Pittsburgh that year, grass didn’t pass. Just a shame there wasn’t a synthetic equivalency that year that saw as much action and weather to test head-to-head. Could the fake stuff handle the same kind of load?
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - Captain Bearcat - 08-26-2020 10:45 AM
Grass fields need a day off between football games to stay in good shape.
Grass is a better surface if the facility is used once a week. If it's used twice in a weekend, grass is better as long as there's good drainage & you have a good ground crew in case the first game was played in bad weather. But if your location is going to be regularly used for 3 games in a weekend, then it's better to use turf.
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - DFW HOYA - 08-26-2020 12:00 PM
(08-26-2020 10:45 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote: Grass is a better surface if the facility is used once a week. If it's used twice in a weekend, grass is better as long as there's good drainage & you have a good ground crew in case the first game was played in bad weather. But if your location is going to be regularly used for 3 games in a weekend, then it's better to use turf.
Georgetown's home field is used as much as 16 hours a day by different sports on non-game days. The 7-10 year life span of FieldTurf averages out to 3-5 in that scenario.
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - The Cutter of Bish - 08-26-2020 01:12 PM
I have to believe that even a synthetic field under usage and weather conditions couldn’t bounce back so readily. Like, if Georgetown’s field is getting worn or breaking down some how, I can’t imagine these fields, any fields, to bounce back like a hardwood basketball court can for its respective sports. But put those November 23-26 2007 Pittsburgh conditions on a synthetic field, what happens?
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - johnintx - 08-26-2020 02:17 PM
(08-25-2020 11:04 AM)Keswick_Crusaders_Forever51 Wrote:(08-25-2020 09:26 AM)johnintx Wrote:(08-25-2020 06:27 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: I thought for sure after some of the injuries that destroyed careers in the 90’s in venues where the turf was old and poorly kept the case for natural grass was all but made and certain. But the cost and care for grass keeps the fake stuff alive, no matter even stats like these.
That turf in the 70's and 80's was awful.
Artificial turf is of a higher quality these days, and is much cheaper to maintain. More and more high schools are using it. Our kids' school shares a stadium with four other schools in the school district. We have a practice field at the school with artificial turf, and our main stadium has it, as well.
With that said, I prefer natural grass.
If that's the stadium I'm thinking of in the Clear Lake Area, it's a beautiful stadium!
It's not in Clear Lake, but in another part of Houston.
However, it's become pretty much standard in Texas for a multi-school district to have their schools share a 8-12,000 seat stadium with turf. There are games (and band halftime shows) three nights a week for 10-11 weeks, plus some JV and middle school games. Over the course of time, it's cheaper to buy turf than to hire a grounds crew. When I watch highlights, I see very few large high schools here with grass fields.
Grass is my preference, but it's not always cost effective.
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - johnintx - 08-26-2020 02:23 PM
(08-25-2020 10:59 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: It’s amazing how good the field looks in both games. Pittsburgh didn’t have it so lucky. During that Pitt-USF game in 2007, the field already looked bad in spots. After four high school games the day before, that’s understandable. By MNF, it didn’t stand a chance.
Six games in four days...in Pittsburgh that year, grass didn’t pass. Just a shame there wasn’t a synthetic equivalency that year that saw as much action and weather to test head-to-head. Could the fake stuff handle the same kind of load?
I remember that weekend. By the time they got to Monday night, they were playing in pig slop.
I understand that the Steelers want to play on grass. I don't blame them, especially after they had the hard turf at Three Rivers Stadium. But, if they're sharing the stadium with Pitt, and if high school playoff games are being played there, grass just isn't optimal.
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - DFW HOYA - 08-26-2020 05:34 PM
AT&T Stadium (aka Jerry World) maintains not one, but three separate artificial turf fields to roll out depending on the situation:
1. High School
2. College
3. NFL (with Dallas Cowboys logos, etc.)
Very few facilities can afford this, however.
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - Hammersmith - 08-26-2020 06:03 PM
(08-26-2020 01:12 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: I have to believe that even a synthetic field under usage and weather conditions couldn’t bounce back so readily. Like, if Georgetown’s field is getting worn or breaking down some how, I can’t imagine these fields, any fields, to bounce back like a hardwood basketball court can for its respective sports. But put those November 23-26 2007 Pittsburgh conditions on a synthetic field, what happens?
That's not how it works for artificial turfs. It's not singular events that break down artificial turfs, it's years of cumulative wear and tear. Weather is almost never a factor.* Georgetown's turf wears out faster just because it's used more. Outdoor turfs wear faster than indoor due to UV degradation. Football wears faster than soccer due to cleats digging in and chewing up the structure. Movable turfs wear faster than permanent turfs due to the damage to the substructure webbing every time it's rolled up or rolled out.
But the only real maintenance that needs to be done on modern infill turfs is to run a specialized dethatching machine over it at certain wear/time intervals. The rubber pellets in the turf can become compacted together over time/wear. When that happens, the turf becomes very hard, just like compacted soil feels like concrete to play on. By running the machine over the turf, the infill gets churned up and the field is restored to it's original texture.
*The only exception I can think of is a screw up during the grading of the field that would allow water to build up and stay standing on the field or in the substructure. I could see that hastening the damage to the field. But, really, that's no different than screwing up the grading/drainage of a grass field.
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - johnintx - 08-26-2020 06:55 PM
(08-26-2020 05:34 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote: AT&T Stadium (aka Jerry World) maintains not one, but three separate artificial turf fields to roll out depending on the situation:
1. High School
2. College
3. NFL (with Dallas Cowboys logos, etc.)
Very few facilities can afford this, however.
It looked to me like the high schools were using the Cowboys' field last year in the state championship games. The field at least had the Cowboys logos. They do, however, still use a different field for college and NFL games.
NRG (formerly Reliant) Stadium in Houston formerly switched out grass and turf fields. The Texans played games on grass, while college and high school games were played on turf. The Texans have since switched to turf. The roof of the stadium hasn't been opened for a game since late 2014. The Texans switched to turf in 2015 due to player complaints.
https://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-houston-texans-switch-to-artificial-turf-20150918-story.html#:~:text=The%20Houston%20Texans%20are%20giving,against%20the%20Kansas%20City%20Chiefs.
RE: How hot would synthetic turf get? - The Cutter of Bish - 08-27-2020 06:03 AM
(08-26-2020 06:03 PM)Hammersmith Wrote:(08-26-2020 01:12 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote: I have to believe that even a synthetic field under usage and weather conditions couldn’t bounce back so readily. Like, if Georgetown’s field is getting worn or breaking down some how, I can’t imagine these fields, any fields, to bounce back like a hardwood basketball court can for its respective sports. But put those November 23-26 2007 Pittsburgh conditions on a synthetic field, what happens?
That's not how it works for artificial turfs. It's not singular events that break down artificial turfs, it's years of cumulative wear and tear. Weather is almost never a factor.* Georgetown's turf wears out faster just because it's used more. Outdoor turfs wear faster than indoor due to UV degradation. Football wears faster than soccer due to cleats digging in and chewing up the structure. Movable turfs wear faster than permanent turfs due to the damage to the substructure webbing every time it's rolled up or rolled out.
But the only real maintenance that needs to be done on modern infill turfs is to run a specialized dethatching machine over it at certain wear/time intervals. The rubber pellets in the turf can become compacted together over time/wear. When that happens, the turf becomes very hard, just like compacted soil feels like concrete to play on. By running the machine over the turf, the infill gets churned up and the field is restored to it's original texture.
*The only exception I can think of is a screw up during the grading of the field that would allow water to build up and stay standing on the field or in the substructure. I could see that hastening the damage to the field. But, really, that's no different than screwing up the grading/drainage of a grass field.
With that kind of volume, what frequency are they running such equipment or care? It sounds like a turf field would have held up that weekend far better. Would hefty usage be even noticeable by that fourth day?